Are some women just against HRT full stop?

[Ladywing]

I can totally understand a healthy dose of scepticism around HRT it isn't going to keep you from aging and while newer forms are safer no treatment is totally risk free. I can also understand anyone choosing not to take it as it is a personal choice of course but there does seem to be an attitude in some women that HRT just isn't needed, that diet, exercise and supplements are all that is needed and that women who use HRT are some how weak and looking for easy answers.

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that menopause doesn't effect all women in the same way and that for some women HRT is life changing and necessary?

@Pollyputhekettleon

Virtually no one says all women should be on HRT. Only someone living under a rock for the last 20 years would be unaware that some women can't take it for medical reasons

And in your next post you go on to point out that many women have the intellectual age of a 3 year old! Stupid people fall into all categories including those that take HRT and yes there are plenty of women who have jumped on the Davina McCall bandwagon and insist on questioning why other women have made a different choice to them (i.e. not to take HRT) and seem completey unaware that HRT is not suitable for everyone.

To clarify I am 48 and still having periods so I am not yet at the point where I have to make a decision about HRT. When I get to that point then I will weigh up the pros and cons and make a decision based on my own priorities and not yours if that's OK with you?

@GulfCoastBeachGirl One thing you posted about no tests for ovarian or endometrial cancers.

There aren't routine tests on the NHS (unlike smears and mammograms) but women can pay for a pelvic scan privately if they want to.

Women are fast tracked for a scan if they have post menopausal bleeding.

@StopFeckingFaffing

Women with the mental age of a 3 year old are not going around discussing HRT with anyone.

You seem to be taking this exceptionally personally for some reason. Since you are, I'd point out that the fact someone is still having periods has no bearing at all on whether or not they may wish to make a decision about HRT. It's normal to experience symptoms during perimenopause when, by definition, you're still having periods, and therefore it's quite normal to take HRT at that time. Since you seem to need the permission of some random stranger on the internet though, yes, it's ok with me if you choose not to make any decisions about HRT until after your periods stop. Knock yourself out.

And if that is their informed decision it is 100% fine. Women are smart and fully capable of performing a risk v/s benefit assessment when it comes to their own health.

I agree with the PP who said all the publicity in the media has raised menopause awareness. That doesn't translate into always taking HRT. Not all women want or need HRT. The 'slebs' can make their case for what suits them.
But there are both risks and benefits to HRT which have to be individualised.

There are women who are not informed, even if they are 'smart' in other areas of their lives. On this thread alone, women refer to HRT made from horse urine. Some think they are too young/ old to start it or are making decisions based on out of date information from 20 years back. (This is an observation not a judgement.)

Posters have mentioned Mariella and Davina. Are they really implying women should take it? I don't do much media.

I'm 47 and I don't know if I will need it or not. I had a friend who was dead against it "because hormones" until she found her crippling headaches would not shift and had to take time off work. You just don't know till you get there.

But why anyone would want to judge someone else for it is beyond me. My boyfriend is very proud of the fact that he doesn't drink or smoke weed, I don't really understand the pride factor either but what can you do.

Of course it's your choice.
For anyone reading this thinking they're still having periods so HRT doesn't apply to them, HRT can be massively beneficial to those in perimenopause (I.E. still having periods) but to whom some of the symptoms are becoming very difficult.

I've read Mariella's book and she definitely gives a line of its individual choice. It's not a tome for HRT it's about perimenopause and menopause and shows HRT is one route to help symptoms.

I think if you're one of the lucky ones who has sailed through menopause without any symptoms, or very few symptoms that yes, you wonder what all the fuss is about. There have been lots of comments about people like Davina McCall or Kirsty Wark "banging on" about menopause, constant TV coverage etc etc etc.

There are many people (like my mother) who see illness as a matter of character. Only those lacking in moral fibre get morning sickness, postnatal depression, menopausal symptoms.

And lots of people heard the "HRT causes breast cancer" message about 20 years ago and haven't moved on from that.

I'm on it now (at 53) but from about 49 to 52, I felt like I was going to HEALTH my way out of ageing. I'm eating walnuts, sardines, broccoli, blackberries, avocados, keffir, and Goddamit I was determined to hack aging. Then the gp just ran it past me, super casually, and told me that it would reduce risk of stroke, heart attack and osteoporosis, and I heard myself say ''ok then''. Because if it reduces risk, then that's in line with my goal of staying healthy. NOT JUDGING ANYBODY though. My school friend, same age obvs, she's not taking anything. She cycles in to town and back everyday, she's doing up her house room by room, she has three daughters, she dates online, she teaches English online, she's in a choir. I believe her that she doesn't need it!

I also think that if more discussion about HRT and the menopause can help women join the dots quicker than I did, then that's only a positive thing.

I had a hysterectomy (fibroids) in 2016, was warned this might make my ovaries pack up quicker than otherwise. Looking back, symptoms started within 18 months. I had two visits to (middle aged female) GPs where I broke down in tears in the consulting room because I was so unhappy and anxious and didn't understand why. Neither of the GPs made the connection with hormones and my hysterectomy, they just prescribed antidepressants and rushed me out of the door. And of course the antidepressants didn't work. During the same time I was prescribed 2 lots of antidepressants, I had about 4 UTI infections over the course of 9 months, having had about 2 in the past twenty years. Again, no suggestion that this might be down to vaginal atrophy or menopause.

It was ONLY through catching people like Louise Minchin or Davina McCall talking about what they were going through that the penny dropped. And even then it wasn't easy, the next younger male GP I saw took bloods to "test my oestrogen" and said I was fine, and to take folic acid. Funnily enough the folic acid didn't sort out my vaginal dryness and anxiety either. It was only when I got super assertive, did loads of reading and told the fourth GP that I wanted a trial of HRT that I got a prescription and lo and behold my sleep was better after 48 hours.

There are some very very good GPs out there who are clued up and interested. There is no GP who is clued up and interested in my practice. No menopause clinic, despite there being an asthma clinic, continence clinic, diabetes clinic, travel immunisation clinic etc etc etc. Referral to the main HRT clinic at the hospital involves a 18 month wait at least. It's no surprise that women feel they have no option but to pay someone privately, I had a 45 minute zoom appointment with a private GP specialising in the menopause and she was absolutely brilliant. But not everyone has £100 to spend on that.

My only "symptom" of menopause is that my periods stopped, which is obviously a good thing. So I am not unwell, and thus don't need any medication. I understand that some women feel the need for HRT - that's OK for them, but we aren't all the same.
I'm in my late 50s and haven't
seen a GP for over 20 years, so think how much time I've saved by not faffing about with my health 😂 I'll do me, and others can make their own choices - why can't we all just do our own thing, without judgement?

This, in a nutshell. Articulates the point so much better than I could ever do.

Hi op it wasnt for me piled on weight. Felt it added to cysts/boils too! But can work well for most women davina lisa snowdon etc. But agree some women dont need it some do we all different.

I don't know anyone who has an opinion on a woman's choice to take it or not. I currently don't take it due to concerns around breast cancer. I try to cope with it. I don't judge anyone for making a different call.

I'm not against HRT full stop. (You need it, you want it, you take it.)

I am against being told (over and over and over) my bones will crumble and snap, and also being told spurious "facts" about dementia, and heart disease.

I can't see what is wrong with passing on factual information @lilacsinbloom
What anyone does with that info is their choice.

I am in contact with the Royal Osteoporosis Society for various reasons. The stats on bone health aren't scaremongering. 1 in 2 women get osteoporosis and 100,000 a year die from complications of fractures.
These are preventable deaths.

Likewise, there is unequivocal evidence that women with early menopause should use hrt for some time, to prevent heart disease. This is not an opinion - it's medical guidance. And for all women, using HRT within 10 years of the menopause (called the window of opportunity) reduces heart disease risks.

The debate on dementia continues, but although there is no definitive consensus, many experts who contribute to the International Menopause Society do think it reduces risk. It is another reason why HRT is advised for early menopause and has been for a long time.

There has been a drive for all women to have a bone density scan in their 50s. But NICE have decided not to offer this. It may change, in time.

I think it's up to the individual what she does in relation to her own health. And (full disclosure) I come from a line of women who had very easy menopause. Also very easy menstuation-don't know if that's connected. However, on a broader issue, I am very concerned with the tendency to put any sign of discontent or illness in women between 35 and whenever down to the menopause. We have only just stopped thinking of women as being ruled by their hormones during child bearing years. Now we're extending that to the rest of our lives. "Pissed off about inequality in the workplace? It's your hormones, dear..."

Every woman in my family has had a trouble free menopause (periods just stopped) and no issues with osteoporosis in later life. On both sides. No HRT taken. I'm not at that point yet, but won't take it if I don't need it, of course. I will if I do. I had no idea there was a school of thought that said everyone should be on it, that's bonkers (and probably delights the drug companies).

I can't see what is wrong with passing on factual formation @lilacsinbloom
What anyone does with that info is their choice.

And yet you neglect to mention that you reversed your osteopenia through diet and exercise.

The only thing that worries me a bit about this is my Mum sailed through the menopause, she was fairly young - 44. She's now 73 and whilst fit and active, she has awful problems with vaginal atrophy and related bladder problems. She tells everyone she sailed through the menopause it's a big fuss about nothing etc...
I take HRT for other reasons, but if I thought I was having a trouble free menopause, I'd be a bit tempted to just use vaginal oestrogen for this reason.

Women's physical, mental and emotional health is massively more impacted by hormones than men's is, and negatively so. Brushing that under the carpet probably has helped women who are healthy and well throughout their lives. It damages the majority of women, who are expected to quietly live and work with PMS, painful or heavy periods, endometriosis, fibroids, PCOS, UTIs, pregnancy-related issues, hysterectomies, childbirth damage, incontinence, mastitis, prolapses, post-natal depression, menopause symptoms, vaginal atrophy etc.

We are not 'equal' to men in the number of things that can and do go wrong with our reproductive systems and we require far more healthcare than they do for most of our lives. We're at a massive disadvantage to them in that respect thanks to mother nature. Those women who sail through life never experiencing a single one of these problems are a small, mostly genetically fortunate, minority. A society that openly acknowledged that, and was built around helping us prevent and treat those problems, would be a far better place for the majority of us to live.

I think every woman should be informed of VA/GSM and what it encompasses and be issued with a script for Ovestin in her early to midforties; and that it be made available over the counter at chemists.

Approximately 50% of women on HRT need to use topical oestrogen like Ovestin or Vagifem as well, to deal with constant UTIs, pain, discomfort sitting or after showering, etc etc. Ovestin is wonderfully helpful for the bladder as well as for internal use.

@ItStopsHere That's so common. Many many women go around telling everyone they sailed through menopause simply because they don't recognize that some health problems they have are or were caused by menopause, or they put late symptoms down to ageing, or they don't want to discuss the more embarrassing symptoms publicly. Some are even in denial themselves about it, others have been told by doctors that their other symptoms have an unknown cause, or a cause other than menopause, or just age, so they never connect the dots. This is why I think the whole framing of HRT as being primarily to treat menopausal symptoms just doesn't work well in practice.

@lilacsinbloom Sorry? I don't recognise your username but it looks as if you are reading either something incorrectly, or confusing me with another poster, or finding something in my very old posts.
I've used HRT for many years.