Are some women just against HRT full stop?

[Ladywing]

I can totally understand a healthy dose of scepticism around HRT it isn't going to keep you from aging and while newer forms are safer no treatment is totally risk free. I can also understand anyone choosing not to take it as it is a personal choice of course but there does seem to be an attitude in some women that HRT just isn't needed, that diet, exercise and supplements are all that is needed and that women who use HRT are some how weak and looking for easy answers.

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that menopause doesn't effect all women in the same way and that for some women HRT is life changing and necessary?

I am happier not takingHRT. I wasn’t given the option when I had a hysterectomy in my early 40s. Now I am late 50s my skin is clearer, my hair is less greasy and I am so enjoying the lack of excruciatingly painful, heavy periods with the horrendous hormonal swings.

I think the root of it is the natural fallacy - menopause is natural (or a physiological process as some like to say) - therefore it's good. Or at least neutral. The idea that a natural process like menopause causes permanent negative effects on health, rather than merely temporary symptoms, is deeply disturbing, and not just for those stuck in the pervasive Nature = Christian God mode. You get the same conflict around childbirth and medical interventions, midwifery vs doctors.

Some of it is defensiveness because they know that some of us believe they're damaging their health, in many cases for no good reason. I find that one hard to understand. If someone tells me they think I'm an idiot my first instinct is to find out whether they're right or not! If they're right then I can be less idiotic in future, so they've helped me out. If they're wrong then, well, people are wrong about things all the time.

I haven't noticed any judging.

I'm having an utterly shitty peri. So far I have resisted HRT but I have been tempted a few times. Two things are stopping me. The first is that hormone drugs really don't agree with me. I tried the pill as a teen. It made me suicidal. I had ivf drugs. They made me feel like an anxious, depressed madwoman. The second is that my mum is on her third bout of breast cancer. HRT might only increase the risk a little but my baseline is already pretty high. But on days when I feel absolutely dreadful it does seem appealing.

Every woman needs to make the right decision for her individual circumstances.

I didn't want it and didn't need it but if I say that, I get jumped on by those that do!

My disagreement with it is that I feel it's sometimes taken up as the first option to sort out any health problems rather than women making changes in their diet and exercise first.

Won't somebody think of the yams?! 😭

I think the judgement at the moment is generally going the other way. Celebs and media insinuating that those who don't take it will wizen and die and, even on this thread, "some of us believe they're damaging their health, in many cases for no good reason. I find that one hard to understand."
Every women is entitled to make her own decision and have that respected, not derided by others.

OK so I have;

Had an abortion
Had 2 MMC
Allowed my 2 DC to do controlled crying
Take hrt

Judge away.

If that's the criteria you judge women by

I’m probably in perimenopause and am experiencing some symptoms, however really don’t want to start anything because I’ve seen first hand how awful the supply issues are. Just when a woman finds the right regime to suit, it then becomes impossible to source the right patch or gel or tablet or whatever and it can be really distressing.

I’m currently working on losing weight and this is making me feel a lot better. I believe hormones are stored in fat, so will see what can be achieved naturally. I also take a high dose vitamin D supplement and do regular weight training to attempt to stave off osteoporosis.

Never say never though. I certainly wouldn’t judge those on HRT apart from those who get testosterone from their private consultant and then wonder why their skin goes to shit and they get hairy, bald and act so aggressively towards their husband that he’s suddenly the one who doesn’t want to shag her but it’s (literally) all the rage at the moment, along with Ozempic…

Some of it is defensiveness because they know that some of us believe they're damaging their health, in many cases for no good reason

While I believe it's a completely personal choice and am neither pro nor con HRT, the HRT evangelists can get tiresome. There are risks and there are benefits. It's up to each woman to evaluate the two and make the choice that is right for her.

Not all women have poor bone health post-menopause. "You're bones will crumble to dust if you don't take HRT!" isn't true for everyone. And despite being repeated ad nauseam here on Mumsnet, there are no conclusive studies regarding HRT preventing dementia. The studies are very much a mixed bag with some showing a slight benefit and others showing a slight increased risk with HRT. There is no major medical organization recommending HRT to prevent dementia.

So it goes both ways. Respect other people's decisions. Women are smart enough to weigh risks and benefits and don't need other women judging them for their choices.

also I only take HRT to stop me descending into madness! HTH

some of us believe they're damaging their health, in many cases for no good reason. I find that one hard to understand

Well you're wrong. They're making an informed choice not to take HRT just as you, presumably, are making an informed decision to take it.

🤣🤣

Same i had a hysterectomy at 42 was offered HRT but declined. Ive had the bad sweats, waking up soaking wet etc but im fine now at 55. I will.say though everything is dryer, hair, skin and intimate area. Not against HRT but as i said upthread would only use plant based because of ethical reasons

You wouldn’t have a choice as I doubt any doctor in the uk would even offer you Premarin.

Some women have the same crusade against anything they consider “unnatural” whether it be childbirth, Botox or HRT. It’s their choice of course, but I wish they’d either shut the fuck up about it or give those who decide otherwise the same respect they demand when they insist upon sharing their “opinion”, and accept that the person who chooses otherwise has made the best decision for themselves, and hasn’t gone in armed with no information.

@Ladyofthelake53 respectfully, you don't know that you are fine inside.

Having a hysterectomy at 42 (and assume you had your ovaries removed or they failed soon after) puts you at a higher risk of bone loss (osteoporosis.)

Now, all women under 51 who have an early menopause either naturally or through surgery are advised to have HRT.
This was also the case when you had your operation.

You really should ask your GP for a bone density scan.
Too many women 'think they are fine' then they break a bone in their 50s and find they have osteoporosis and then have to take medication for life (often with side effects.)

HRT is licensed to the prevention and treatment of women at risk of with osteoporosis.

Also if you are suffering from dryness, you should use topical estrogen. You can buy it OTC as 'Gina' or see your GP. Don't ignore it, as it will only get worse and harder to rectify.

Not all women have poor bone health post-menopause. "You're bones will crumble to dust if you don't take HRT!" isn't true for everyone.

@GulfCoastBeachGirl That is true. But the facts are that 1:2 women aged over 50 will have a fracture because of osteoporosis, and over 100,000 older women die each year from complications of a fracture. It costs the NHS £millions.

This is preventable, if women were screened for their bone health around 50-55.

The Royal Osteoporosis Society is trying to increase awareness and also push for screening, but NICE doesn't want to know because of the cost.
Which is ironic as they fund cervical screening and yet the numbers of deaths from that are tiny in comparison.

I'd never say women should take HRT but the 'informed choice' everyone talks about has to be done in the context of bone and heart health (before diseases occur.) It's not only about flushes and sweats.

For the sake of £250 every 3 years women can get a private bone scan that could prevent years of pain and disability in the future.

That's why they're jumping on you of course. Is it that you think their health problems are being misdiagnosed as caused by menopause when they're actually caused by their bad diet and lack of exercise?

You'll notice if you read it again that I was extremely careful to qualify what I said. 'They' are not a monolith, any more than HRT takers are. Many of them are absolutely not making an informed decision not to take it. Many if not most doctors are completely ignorant about HRT and believe dozens of myths about it thanks to the 2001 WHI study. The average patient doesn't have much chance of being better informed. Women come on here all the time having no idea that vaginal atrophy even exists, for example, or that estrogen has any effect on bone density, or even that menopausal symptoms don't necessarily end when your periods do.

@WickedWitchoftheDesk women would mostly like to get testosterone from their GP. But many health boards won't prescribe it - mine won't until I've seen a menopause specialist. The waiting list is around one year! So women who feel they need it (due to non existent libido's and/or muscle and joint pain) feel forced into buying it privately. We are supposed to have testosterone in our bodies and during perimenopause levels can really drop.
Add in that it isn't licensed for women so they are guessing what to use, because our GPs wash their hands of it and it's no wonder it can go wrong. We shouldn't be left by the nhs to just work it out for ourselves or rely on private suppliers who have vested interests in selling it.

I used to get the most horrific bladder pain and urgency - like having an incurable UTI. I saw a private gynaecologist, and a women's physiotherapist and it still took ages to figure out it might be vaginal atrophy related. I take oestrogen pessaries as well as the HRT patches and things are a lot better (although not perfect by any stretch). I still live in fear of that happening to me again - I was incapacitated for months and had no real answers. I've been on a waiting list for urology for about 2 years now. I think HRT has saved my quality of life tbh.

@QueenOfHiraeth Everyone judges everyone else's decisions all the time, including above all those who most parade their non-judgmentalness (they're busy of course feeling superior by judging anyone who appears to be judging others...). It's just human nature.

Believing that someone else is making the wrong decision is not 'deriding' that person's decision. What does respecting their decision even actually mean anyway? I mean, I fully support anyone's right to not take it obviously. I think some of them are making that decision from a position of ignorance and confusion, and that's absolutely demonstrably true, the evidence is right here daily. People have 'disrespected' my decisions dozens of times in my life by telling me where I'm wrong, what I didn't know, what I misunderstood, and in doing so some of them have saved my health, my finances, my career and quite possibly my life. We are not our current set of opinions.

Take it or don’t, whatever is best for you personally. I really don’t understand why people feel the need to discuss it. The important thing is that we have the option if we feel we need it.

I think there are various reasons including

The bad PR mainly stemming from the discredited 2001 study.

People wanting to be as natural as possible, similar to some women refusing an epidural.

Everyone’s experience being so different. We aren’t the same in terms of how we experience puberty, fertility and pregnancy so how on earth would menopause hit us the same way.

I also think there’s something around women being conditioned to be quiet and accepting and not to make a fuss. I think if men experienced menopause in the same way (not andropause) attitudes would be different. And we’d also have a lot more research to go on.

@Dentistlakes Have you read @LadyBird1973 post just above? Women are literally disabled at times by menopause and doctors fail to help them. That's why we talk about it. How are most women supposed to know what's best for them when even the medical profession is barely aware of the existence of, say, vaginal atrophy?

And no, we don't all have the option if we feel we need it. Many doctors refuse to prescribe HRT for all kinds of idiotic reasons, some insist on cutting women off from it after a certain number of years, many refuse to increase the dose, and it's even worse in other countries like the US. My pharmacist recently refused to give me more than the standard twice a week Vagifem pessary, despite the fact it clearly said on my prescription that my doctor had prescribed it nightly if that's what I continue to need (which by the way many doctors won't even do). She informed me that that was too much estrogen. She caved in the end, but insisted on sending an email to my doctor to confirm. We have to discuss HRT so that more and more women can protect themselves against the 'caring' medical profession until hopefully some day they don't need to.