Are some women just against HRT full stop?

[Ladywing]

I can totally understand a healthy dose of scepticism around HRT it isn't going to keep you from aging and while newer forms are safer no treatment is totally risk free. I can also understand anyone choosing not to take it as it is a personal choice of course but there does seem to be an attitude in some women that HRT just isn't needed, that diet, exercise and supplements are all that is needed and that women who use HRT are some how weak and looking for easy answers.

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that menopause doesn't effect all women in the same way and that for some women HRT is life changing and necessary?

Mumsnet can be horribly unsupportive of other women's choices, you only have to read the SAHM v. WOHM threads 😥.

@Reggieismycat Have you considered going back on it?

There is an assumption that all the most common HRTs prescribed in the UK are bioidentical and produced from plants. Evorel combined patches for instance contain Norethisterone, which is a synthetic older progestogen which has been around since the 1950s.

You are however, very unlikely to be prescribed the older HRTs which are cruelly produced.

No, it's not a load of old cack. Keeping your weight down, eating well and exercising all takes a lot of effort. Taking HRT is clearly easier. It's a personal choice.

I think there's judgement in that comment, by implying that HRT is for people who can't be bothered with looking after theirselves. I'm not overweight, competed in a sport and was very fit. Menopausal joint and bladder problems absolutely floored me.
No amount of weight loss, exercise or diet will prevent vaginal atrophy for instance if you are predisposed to it.
I had never planned on taking HRT as I've never coped with hormonal birth control, yet here I am on HRT.

JinglingSpringbells. I would go back on it but Im 68 now and dont think my doctor would let me. I have Rhumatoid Arthritis and have had both knees replaced and a screw in my ankle and only had these joint problems since I came off HRT and I dont think its a coincidence but then Im not a doctor.🤷‍♀️

I am not ideologically opposed to HRT however I don't personally feel the need to take it. It clearly is very beneficial for some women and that's great 😄👍they are bound to the evangelical about it if it's made a significant impact on their quality of life!

@ItStopsHere agree with you.

I am also skin, healthy and eat well.
Aged 48, I woke up one day, a nervous wreck, unable to drive my son to school as the anxiety had wrapped itself round my stomach, just awful. Things escalated and I had to seek help. The HRT door was closed for me, as id had breast cancer.

Months laster, I was allowed hrt ( thanks to a specialist who explained risks vs benefits etc.

Sorry @Mojoj but I had no bloody choice but to take HRT!!! Else I would be housebound by now!!! Don't you think I would of preferred to go without? Yes I would. Reason? Side effects which I had to combat, such as bleeding etc.

Taking HRT is not always an easy option and the side effects can be horrid.

@Reggieismycat I know consultants who have started women in their late 80s on HRT. And there are many women in their late 60s on HRT.

You absolutely could have it.

@Mojoj I'm not sure why you're talking about what's easier and what's harder, except that it presumably helps you to feel superior.

The question is what's more effective. Menopausal symptoms are caused by loss of hormones or hormonal shifts, not lack of exercise, being overweight or eating badly (even if those things may also be contributing to symptoms). So it should be obvious enough that replacing the hormones will be far more effective in treating those symptoms than anything else. And that is the case for most women most of the time.

You also seem to assume that women who take HRT do so instead of exercising, eating well, losing weight etc. That's a really bizarre assumption you know.

Transdermal body identical HRT is all plant based.

You can start it at any age, never too late and it's licensed for osteoporosis treatment.

I'm not against it. I know it's the right choice for some people. I am against being a woman being automatically pathologised and medicated.

I never took the pill due to the side effects and risk. I was happy to take modern HRT though.

A recent podcast between Dr Louise Newsom and a US urologist strongly recommended DHEA. It's seen as extremely helpful and complementary to other HRT

Women are often pathologised and medicated rather than getting HRT which is topping up natural hormones with body identical pjs t based hormones (most types in the UK now). Instead women are often prescribed anti-depressants like smarties, ibuprofen and other anti-inflammatories, IBS treatments, anti-histamines, sleeping tablets etc. HRT can actually lead to being able to drop these drug regimens.

In my experience I hear a lot more menopausal women singing the praises of HRT and insisting all women ought to be on it than I hear women who don't take HRT offering any kind of opinion on the subject

If I think I need HRT at some point during menopause then I will ask for it, if I don't then I won't

I don't really care what other women choose to do and I certainly don't judge women who choose to take HRT

@Pollyputhekettleon totally agree with you.

These debilitating symptoms ( for some women) stem from fluctuating and dwindling hormones. Which, incidentally, can only be replaced by hormones.

Trust me @Mojoj for some, there's nothing easy about taking HRT. Many struggle with the progesterone element for example. Finding the optimum dose ( particularly during peri) can be really challenging.

I haven't noticed any judgement amongst friends I've talked to about it. Although I'm 4 months into my HRT journey and it's not having the 'wow' impact I'd hoped for so now starting on different tablets. If I can't find anything that works I may just give up and look to more natural ways to alleviate the symptoms.

@OSU-fair enough. I was asked for an opinion and gave it. All medication has its place and its uses. But none of them, including HRT, is a cure all.

@CurlewKate Some medication is a cure all. Thyroid medication, for example, can and does cure all of people's hypothyroid symptoms once they have the right dose. HRT likewise can and does cure all of some people's menopause symptoms. Which makes sense, since those symptoms are all caused by the loss of hormones.

@StopFeckingFaffing

Virtually no one says all women should be on HRT. Only someone living under a rock for the last 20 years would be unaware that some women can't take it for medical reasons.

One of the major problems with taking an approach of 'I'll take it if I need it' is that it assumes firstly that women are going to know what's a menopause symptoms and what isn't. The majority of women don't. They'll say they flew through menopause, then later on will mention they now have tinnitus, or dry skin, or heart palpitations or something. Usually they won't have bothered going to a doctor about it, or they've had years of investigations and treatment and doctors are at a loss having never considered menopause. A lot of the shouting about HRT is aimed at helping women identify the fact they're having symptoms in the first place.

The other problem with viewing it through the lens of treatment of symptoms is that symptoms are something you expect to be aware of. Osteopenia is a 'symptom' of menopause, but you won't know whether you have it or not unless you're getting a regular DEXA scan, which the vast majority of women of perimenopausal age aren't. You're also not going to have had a baseline scan, so even if you're not osteopenic and therefore conclude you're fine, you may have already lost bone density from your own personal maximum. So you may be closer to osteopenic than you should be, and you'll never know.

Virtually no one says all women should be on HRT. Only someone living under a rock for the last 20 years would be unaware that some women can't take it for medical reasons

And some women won't take it because they aren't willing to assume even a small increased risk of breast, ovarian and endometrial cancers. Especially since there are no recommended preventative screening tests for ovarian or endometrial cancers.

And if that is their informed decision it is 100% fine. Women are smart and fully capable of performing a risk v/s benefit assessment when it comes to their own health. No need for infantilizing or lecturing about what is "for their own good".

Having the option and being given the choice is a good thing. Weighing pros and cons is a smart thing. Coming to a decision is a personal thing.

My doc wouldnt give it me.. asked twice .. twice was sent down a different path.. but.. having just heard that a friend has been admitted to a mental health hospital.. and they are blaming HRT.. I’m glad I wasn’t given it

@GulfCoastBeachGirl I was responding to a specific point someone else was making which was clearly untrue.

I literally don't know what it means to say that someone else's decision is or isn't fine. But no, 'women', aren't smart. Women are half the human population and some are very smart and some are very stupid, just like men. Some of them are in every sense the opposite of what you mean by smart. They have intellectual disabilities, they're illiterate, they're not capable of understanding a lot of things. Some of them literally have the mental age of a 3 year old. Everyone else is on a spectrum from there. I have no idea what it means to not infantilize someone who has a mental age of 3.

Most women are not making fully informed decisions about menopause (and that's probably equally true of most other choices many of us make every day by the way). That's my point, and I'm not at all sure what yours is.

And, as I've said many times by now, not all women are given any option or any choice. Doctors refuse to prescribe HRT for them, refuse to give them the type or dose they want, refuse to allow them to continue it beyond a certain number of years, give them completely false information and advice which makes them think they can't/shouldn't take it, the false information in the enclosed leaflets mislead women and stop them from taking it, supply issues means they can't get it anyway etc. So I don't know why you're saying that having the choice is a good thing. It would be a good thing if everyone had a choice, yes. They don't.