General Low Carb Bootcamp Chat

[BIWI]

Although I generally keep a chat thread going at the end of each Bootcamp, I think it would be better to have an ongoing chat thread that isn't linked to a specific Bootcamp.

So here it is. A sparkly new thread, for all things low carb and Bootcamp chat. As well as anything else you'd like to chat about!

Feel free to chat about anything you like here.

I'm going shopping later and will get some sliced gouda or edam, I cut into tortilla chip sized triangles, bake (on baking paper not foil or you'll never get it off) until crisp and use as a crisp replacement, good with home made guacamole too.

I'm also hoping to make some home made coffee ice cream to use up the last of the xmas cream stock. Is natvia ok for boot camp?

My brussel sprouts contribution is to gently fry some chopped chorizo and when it had released all its lovely oil and starts to crisp throw in some shredded sprouts and fry for a couple of mins. I use about 5" piece of chorizo for a small double handful of sprouts).

@ToddlingForwards

Not a boot camp specific question, but can anyone recommend a good recipe app? Need to get organised so that the ankle biters don’t get in the way of successfully bootcamping… preferably one which will let me store recipes, meal plan and magically produce a shopping list!

It was me who recommended the Whisk app. It's free, and really easy to use 👍

Thanks @BIWI & @prettybird

I’ve never cooked sprouts before so am interested to try the recipes mentioned here….. do you all just cook them whole or chop in half?

I just trim the base and any dirty leaves on the outside and cook them whole.

Recipe for "shoogled sprouts:

Prepare a generous portion of sprouts (I like to eat them cold too so don't mind if I do too many ) and put into a microwaveable bowl. Add a slab of some butter on top. Put a side plate on top and microwave for c2 minutes. Shoogle (Scottish word for "shake" ). Microwave for another 2 minutes. Shoogle again, season and enjoy

Times may vary depending on the strength of your microwave and how many sprouts you are doing.

The same technique can be used for cauliflower florets, broccoli, sliced cabbage (savoy or white).

It somehow seems to make them sweeter too with none of the bitterness associated with brassicas.

athroneoflies I slice them into 4 or 5. Only need to take off the stalk if it's very big (once shredded up you won't notice it).

I love cold sprouts, too, prettybird. Somehow their nutty loveliness comes though a bit more then they are cold.

I'm a bit at the thought of shredding them, though. Surely their gorgeous fun-sized, mouth-sized roundness is part of their USP? And the lovely al dente texture of the sprout in its native spherical form!

random789 I like a whole sprout too but a shredded sprout has a much bigger surface area to coat in chorizo oil 🤤

Please can I ask a question? I have 4-5 kg to lose and wonder which would be better for me LCHF or Fast800? I have lost weight with Fast800 in the past but I find it quite restrictive and often feel hungry. At my age I find that just cutting down/moving more doesn’t really cut it. Thanks!

I'm so in! I low carbed successfully for a year and then fell off the wagon. I need help to get back on it and lose a shed load of weight. But mostly I just want to feel healthier like I did before.

@Colourmylife1

Please can I ask a question? I have 4-5 kg to lose and wonder which would be better for me LCHF or Fast800? I have lost weight with Fast800 in the past but I find it quite restrictive and often feel hungry. At my age I find that just cutting down/moving more doesn’t really cut it. Thanks!

I'd definitely go with LCHF as it's more sustainable in the longer term than strict calorie counting.

If you follow LCHF you certainly won't be hungry.

Just eating shoogked sprouts mixed with crispy bacon. Food of the gods.

@BIWI thanks got the reply. I do feel that with FAST800 I tend to yo-yo as I find it hard to stick to. Will definitely do boot camp then

I've jumped onto the 'sprout train' today, having never been a fan! Having read all of your sprout posts though, I was inspired to try so googled a few recipes and made 'pan-fried Brussel sprouts, with bacon, onion, garlic and parmesan'. I'm having chicken breast with it. I can't even describe the wondrous smell coming from my kitchen right now!! 🤣

As promised, here's a brief summary of Michael Mosley's 'Fast800 Keto' plan.

It is a three stage plan, the first of which lasts for up to 12 weeks, also being the strictest - combining calorie counting with low(er) carb eating. The final stage is a plan for maintenance - so it's really only stages 1 & 2 that are about weight loss.

The summary is in my words, although I have occasionally quoted directly from the book, in which case the comments are in speech marks and also italics - hopefully my formatting will work!

Stage 1: “rapid weight loss”

• 800-900 calories a day, for up to 12 weeks
• “the rule of 50”: consume at least 50g protein a day but keep your daily intake of carbohydrate under 50g
• The combination of low carb and low calorie will ensure that you move rapidly into ketosis
• (Like Bootcamp, avoiding carbs that come from pasta/rice/bread/sugar/most fruit etc)
• Protein at every meal, to help maintain muscle mass and keep your appetite suppressed – but not too much protein in this stage. How much is too much isn’t stated – but the argument for restricting it in this stage is that “if you eat much more than you need your body will convert any excess into sugar (by a process called gluconeogenesis), which could sabotage your attempts to go into ketosis.”
• No alcohol

Stage 2: “intermittent fasting”

• No time limit to this stage – stay on this until you reach your target weight
• A 3:4 plan – i.e., eating 800-900 calories a day, low carb, for 4 days of the week – Monday to Thursday
• More relaxed eating Friday to Sunday “eating normally, without counting calories, but adding in more protein and more complex carbs, and generally being careful.”
• It doesn’t have to be these days, but the recommendation is that the low calorie/low carb days should be consecutive, so that you get into/stay in ketosis
• This is known as ‘keto cycling’ – “regularly flipping the metabolic switch and going in and out of ketosis”
• On the three less strict days you’re recommended to move to a Mediterranean diet, including more carbs (50-120g) and more protein (60-80g)
• The carbs you’re allowed to eat include root vegetables (carrots, butternut squash, sweet potatoes), wholegrains, lentils and beans; you can occasionally have a slice of brown seeded or sourdough bread, a healthy dessert (not specified what a healthy dessert is!) or a piece of fruit
• No alcohol
• Encouraged to introduce an element of TRE – Time Restricted Eating

Stage 3: “the long-term maintenance plan”

• Move onto this stage when you have reached your target weight
• “Normal” eating – not as you were eating before, but following a relatively low carb, higher protein, Mediterranean-style diet “which is the most effective way not only to keep the weight off long-term, but also to reduce your risk of heart disease, cancer, Type 2 diabetes and dementia. It is a way of eating that has been shown to reduce depression and anxiety, as well as improve sleep.”
• No longer calorie restricted
• Protein levels should be increased – you should be eating 1g of protein for every kilo of your body weight – 70-80g for women and 90-100g for men (this is assuming that you are now at your target weight and no longer overweight)

Hope this helps/is of interest. As I said before, I'm very happy to lend anyone who is interested my copy of the book. Just PM me if you would like to borrow it.

In my opinion that plan is absolute bollocks. You're going to be starving all the time. If your goal is to get weight off as quickly as possible then my recommendation would be to follow Bootcamp until you're fat-adapted and the introduce intermittent fasting, working your way up to three 24- or 36-hour fasts per week while maintaining a diet rich in vitamins and minerals (i.e. lots of meat/fish, full-fat dairy, and loads of veggies.) If you don't want to lose weight as fast as possible then stick to Bootcamp then Bootcamp Light and consider introducing intermittent fasting 16:8 if you're particularly insulin resistant / pre-diabetic / have a family history of diabetes.

Don't sit on the fence there @StuntNun

Second day without sugar and I seem to have gone through the irritable stage of withdrawal without biting DH's head off, thankfully. I'm not eating particularly low carb yet, I did have a sandwich for lunch, but I did then go for an hour's walk and that's the last of the bread gone. I don't think there's anything else too lethal in the house that doesn't need cooking (anything that needs cooking is completely safe from me when a carb craving hits!) Fridge is stocked with loads of cold meat and cheese, freezer is full of loads of frozen veg, and it's roast beef with loads of veg for supper tonight.

What I'm really excited about though is that I might finally be getting a microwave again after nearly 14 years without one! The Christmas guests in our holiday let had something explode in there and there are some stains on the bottom of it, underneath the turntable, that I couldn't get out on a same-day changeover. Going to have another go over the next few days before the next guests arrive on Thursday, but if it doesn't come off then it's a new one in the sales for the cottage and the old one comes home

 @BIWI Seriously though this was my bread and butter for years and the get thin quick schemes have so much appeal but are rarely the best way to lose weight. Yes we all want to be slim but we aren't good at wanting to be healthy and fit. Regardless of how quickly or reasonably you lose weight, the really important thing is building a sustainable way of eating that will keep you slim and healthy for life. This idea that cutting 500 calories per day is good so cutting 1200 calories per day is better just doesn't make sense. We've seen it over and over again on Bootcamp where someone is stalled and eating too few calories and when they increase their calories they start losing weight again. We ignore the complex web of hormones controlling our weight at our peril. Eating too few calories can stall your weight loss just as much as eating too many calories because calories in calories out doesn't really work.

I agree, @StuntNun. I'm cross with myself for parting with good money for his latest book - I expected it would be something much more ground-breaking or original than it is.

I certainly didn't expect to read all the contradictions in it. And, ultimately, I think Bootcamp is a much simpler approach, that's also a lot more sustainable/achievable.

The best thing about Bootcamp is it's simplicity. You know what you should be eating lots of, what to limit and what to avoid! You don't even have to weigh or measure ffs. I often read these books and end up more confused

Anyway, day one was almost perfect for me:

L was 4 eggs with mayo
D was Roast Lamb, FLGV and cheese melted on top.

Tomorrow will have more veg/salad with Lunch. And more WATER!! I have only managed about 2l today but will improve, promise!!

@Colourmylife1 I think that it depends on what kind of person/cook you are. For people who are not particularly confident in the kitchen it can be really helpful to follow a seven day published meal plan, with all the associated recipes, knowing that everything has been measured and weighed and calculated. The new MM book has a 7 day plan for 3 meals per day, and a 7 day plan for 2 meals per day, plus a couple of examples for extra days with a few more calories.

I think the challenge (apart from all that @stuntnun wrote earlier) is that if you don't like 'curried smoked haddock chowder' (for example) then it's quite a faff to find an appropriate substitute (from the relatively limited recipes - one assumes there will be an expensisve colour recipe book to follow ).

Plus what do you do in week 2? or week 12? Do you repeat the menu plans again and again? How do learn to adapt and create your own menu plans?

On bootcamp, there are no such menu plans but a) the rules are straightforward; and b) very often people will post their food diaries or plans and you can get constant ideas and inspiration from these (or at least I do). I notice in these menu plans that there is quite a variety in how much people eat - one person will have a 3 egg omelette with cheese, another will have a single boiled egg with butter; one person may have a huge lunch with salad, chicken, olives avocado, another may have a bowl of vegetable soup. So I think you can adapt for your appetite/lifestyle/age/body size etc.

tbh you're not going to bet an unbiased answer here

@BIWI don't be cross, I think it's initiated an interesting debate and reinforced some of the wonderful benefits of BootCamp There are a couple of recipes that I will try, which helps to ring the changes for me.

I think I have as much concern about his use of '800' as I do of the word 'keto'. The vegetable sides are unlimited and not calorie or carb counted so creamy kale (including 3 tbsp yogurt) and courgettes with parmesan could add a fair few carbs, calories and fat. As could dressings - the lemon and yogurt dressing (including mayonnaise) is about 150 calories per portion including 30g fat.

@venusandmars I quite like cooking and I’m lucky that I don’t have to feed a family so just have to think about myself. I do think LCHF may be easier to fit in to daily life but I worry about portion control. With Fast800 I know I will definitely lose weight as it is quite restrictive. I understand the science of LCHF (sort of) but don’t quite trust myself!

Went for a meal out with DH yesterday, intending for it to be a 'last supper' before beginning Bootcamp. Actually the first two courses were quite low carb beetroot with goat's cheese to start and venison with celeric and carrot (just half a carrot WTF??). But I had a pudding (apple and rhubarb cobbler -- but suprisingly minimally sweetened) and a pint and a half of beer.

I'm not sure when the Bootcamp officially starts, but I'm starting ... three ..., two ..., one ... NOW.
For accountability I'm stating that this means ZERO ALCOHOL, zero nuts, and zero embarrassing episodes of eating whole tubs of greek yoghurt and mascarpone.