Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Low-carb bootcamp

Join discussions about low-carb bootcamp plans, meals and progress. Consider speaking to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Week 5 - Low Carb Bootcamp - The cheating stops here

371 replies

StuntNun · 02/06/2014 06:33

Hello again and it's time for weigh in. The cheating seems to have edged up a bit in the last week so I want to remind everyone that cheating is a really bad idea and will hinder your weight loss. It's called Bootcamp for a reason. We only want ten weeks from you and the cheat foods will still be there at the end of Bootcamp. But for now no cheats please. Next time you're tempted remember it isn't the last scone/cake/wine in the world.

If you need a reminder or you're joining Bootcamp partway through, the rules are on the Spreadsheet of Fabulousness and you can also track your weight on the Weight Tracker.

As promised last week I've written some info on the science behind diets...

How do we lose weight?

First, why don't low fat restricted calorie diets work? It comes down to homeostasis: our bodies actively resist change. For some reason in humans our resistance to weight change appears to be asymmetric, that is we resist losing weight much more effectively than we resist gaining weight. Most of us have experienced first hand the gradual increase in weight over time, or the more abrupt but still unshiftable weight gain that happens with pregnancy. Basically it's easy to gain weight but difficult to lose weight. So we go on a reduced calorie diet, eating 1800 calories while our bodies are expending 2000 calories. We may lose some weight at first but eventually eating 1800 calories becomes the norm and our bodies resist the change by dropping the metabolic rate to match calorie output to input. But, and here's the problem, the metabolic rate might drop to reduce calorie expenditure by 300 calories rather than 200 in order to regain the lost weight and get back to our normal weight. So weight loss stops, we get disheartened and quit the diet and our reduced metabolic rate allows the weight to pile back on and then some, just in case we encounter this artificial famine again in the future.

So what's different about a low carb diet? One of the key rules of Bootcamp is to eat when you're hungry. This works to prevent the reduced metabolic rate that scuppers a reduced calorie diet. When you start eating a low carb diet and you have exhausted your glycogen stores, the liver starts converting fat from your diet into ketones. Your muscles start using ketones and then adapt to using fatty acids for energy. Your brain uses ketones and glucose from your diet along with glucose produced from protein by gluconeogenesis. The low levels of insulin induced by a low carb diet allow fatty acids to flow freely in and out of fat cells. It is this free flow of fatty acids from your fat cells that allows you to lose weight on a low carb diet without restricting calories. Your muscles cannot distinguish whether fatty acids came directly from your digestive system or from your fat cells, they just use them up as needed. As you adapt to the low carb diet, there is a reduction in your appetite in response to the ready availability of energy at all times. A low carb diet works simply by allowing your muscles and liver to freely use fatty acids released from your fat cells.

Good luck for the coming week. Keep on keeping on.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
PseudoBadger · 04/06/2014 09:41

Also this WOE unfortunately isn't for everyone. My mum saw my great success and tried to do it for this BC. But her view is that life isn't complete without toast, or wine every night or, the biggest issue, fruit. "I'll only be happy again when I can eat an apple Pseudo". So she stopped.

PseudoBadger · 04/06/2014 09:45

So today I've had Greek yoghurt (waitrose do a nice new brand called YoGood, much cheaper than total, 3.7 carbs) with double cream and frozen raspberries, and a coffee with cream. Water too.
I'm popping in to work later to say hi and sort some return to work stuff and we'll go for lunch. I'm going to remain low carb and hope they don't suggest pizza express as I'll be hungry!

PseudoBadger · 04/06/2014 09:46

Oops posted too soon - dinner will be bolognese with courgetti.

Parsnipcake · 04/06/2014 09:46

I have had a few good salads at pizza express. I ask for more chicken and no breadsticks and take my own dressing in a tiny jar :)

PseudoBadger · 04/06/2014 09:47

Do they swap breadsticks for protein at no extra cost?

SarahBeenysBumblingApprentice · 04/06/2014 09:48

On a much lighter note, I love the idea of BIWI fridge stickers! They need a picture of a stick on them (but I'm too frightened of trashes version of the stick).

Parsnipcake · 04/06/2014 09:49

They did for me :)

lowcarbforthewin · 04/06/2014 10:33

I can't understand how someone else eating a cheat meal will make me want to do it? I don't get that at all. I am in control of what goes in my mouth - not someone else.

I guess it's just for some of us food addiction is a very real issue. Reading about cheats (the details I mean, not that you've cheated) really ups my cravings. It really feeds that voice of 'some would be really really really nice, and it would make me feel so so so much happier and everything will be right with the world.' It's like someone has found a small chink in my armour and is hacking at it with an axe. If I'm having a bad enough day or feeling self pitying it can lead to me eating something. Very rarely, I am pretty much in control. But it can. It makes it much harder anyway! I don't want to be battling those thoughts more than I have to.

I really think it's ok and supportive to talk about why you've cheated or why you are tempted, and also how crap it's made you feel after. It's helpful to address that kind of stuff. I think what everyone is getting upset about is the posts where people list all the stuff they've eaten and stressed how good it tasted. And I've done that too, I need to also not post that stuff now. This last 4 weeks has been such a learning curve, from realising I can't have dairy right now, to realising I wasn't eating enough fat, to realising (most importantly) that I really really really cannot cheat, and I need to work much harder on that bit. Time to knuckle down!

And on a cheerier note, SOUNDS CHEERY KLAXON, I put on my size 14 trousers today, which I have only recently been able to start wearing (were skin tight in Jan), and they are suddenly starting to get baggy. Noticed that with my pjs too. I have a huge issue with having heavy legs, I WANT THEM GONE. And fingers crossed the bastards are going to start shrinking from here on in.

AND I had bacon for breakfast and it was fucking awesome.

SarahBeenysBumblingApprentice · 04/06/2014 10:38

Well done on size 14 lowcarb! Grin

Parsnipcake · 04/06/2014 10:43

Brilliant lowcarb

LittleMissDisorganized · 04/06/2014 11:00

Wow, what a lot of really thought-provoking posts. I want to try and affirm what some people have said.
antimatter I really want to hear about the internal dialogue with the biscuits, because that's the real issue, the reason many of us got to be in this situation in the first place, and getting to the root will help us get well.
Sarah hearing about your birthday cake situation and victory really helped me. I cook a lot, for DH, and for others, that I can't eat, and handling that has been a key skill.
spamm this thread is about all of our real lives, yours does involve international travel and hotels, and those struggles are as valid as anyone else's. I think we need to really have empathy for both you, and for those in parsnipcake's situation where those things are never part of life - if we can't share where we are at - and in my case that's in recovery from alcoholism, disabled, trying to rebuild my really shattered life - and have some empathy then we're really doomed.
BIWI you are far from unsupportive, and I was then and am now sad to hear how disheartened you've been. This is such a great thing in my life - so many of us have this testimony because of the hard work you've put in.

And my thoughts:
What I find hard is the talk of "cheating is inevitable". If you've decided to have a day or a meal off, we don't all need to hear about it. But if the cheating is as a result of that nasty old addictive voice speaking to us, or social issues/anxiety - then that we do need to have a place for, here, we need to share those things. The decision making is all part of it.

Before pingufan went away I think I tried to gently say that she seemed to have planned to fail. I'm not sure that was the help, or response she wanted, and that's fine.

But for a small community like this to be really effective we need to move, first from sharing honestly, into accountability. I need that. I am up for being challenged on my thinking even if I don't like it at the time.

And actually I've taken my own advice. DH and I are away for a week's holiday from Saturday. And I can remain as in control of my eating as I choose. We're going to a wedding, well, I'm not sure how that will be. I needed to be pushed from - holidays are just life, I'll lose it again afterwards towards actually, this WOE is life and it'll be a year like StuntNun mentioned of salad boxes and no ice creams.

There was, especially the last bootcamp, a few people who seemed to cheat weekly and still lose, in a manner I can only describe as gloating. This is as unhelpful as people saying, ugh, I'm a size 14 and it's disgusting - how about rephrasing that you feel disgusting? Why?? That's not about the number, it's about something deeper than that.

I hope we can be both gentle and accountable. Mostly this thread is both of those things and I'd be sad if anyone felt pushed out at all.

pingufan · 04/06/2014 11:03

Well done lowcarb and sorry if I offended anybody by saying I can't understand how someone else eating a cheat meal will make someone else eat a cheat meal.

I didn't get to 14st 11lbs by eating lettuce - I just ate everything and anything I wanted. I wasn't a binger - I just simply didn't lose baby weight after my daughter 11 years ago. I've stayed the same weight since then.

So I haven't got complex issues around food - I just like it - and I like everything. My portion sizes were massive and I ate lots and lots of carbs. This WOE has been a revelation to me and I know how so much better my body behaves when I eat this way.

So I'll reiterate - EATING CARBS MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE SHIT FOLKS. I'll be far less tempted next time I can assure you. The 2 days of running to the toilet, sweating, bloating and disturbed sleep is enough of a deterrent!

LittleMissDisorganized · 04/06/2014 11:04

Oh, and I'm really disheartened. Sticking to the rules. Not losing. Upped my fat, got my macros right for the last 5 days, sneaky weigh in... another 0.75lb gained. I've been this weight since Easter, have had one, planned, mindful meal off about 5 weeks ago. Urgh. I feel healthy and am moving better... but I'm frustrated and feel pretty discouraged.

My plan is, go away, stick to plan for the most part. Come back and start work, see how the new routine and everything go, as sleep/ activity/ less time to cook all take effect. And after a couple of weeks, re-evaluate. I'm hoping by then it'll be good news.

Golden shot? - maybe. 3 meals off plan over Easter, a few weeks of diabetic chocolate treats and a 6 week stall. I don't get it.

pingufan · 04/06/2014 11:10

Before pingufan went away I think I tried to gently say that she seemed to have planned to fail. I'm not sure that was the help, or response she wanted, and that's fine

I knew it was going to be almost impossible. These weekends are an annual event and there is a LOT of drinking and eating involved. For me, to stick to something long term I have to know that it will be ok for me to still have a life. Perhaps I should have stuck to my guns and not drunk much but I WANTED to let my hair down with the girls and enjoy myself. I know that I can go straight back on it afterwards.

What I didn't expect was how crap my body felt though which will make me think twice about eating carbs just for the sake of it. It has to be a very good reason (like a girly weekend away ;)

rubybricks · 04/06/2014 11:14

wow - some great posts everyone! can't express myself as eloquently as any of you lot but don't like anyone to be made unhappy - especially BIWI - and hope i haven't inadvertently annoyed anyone with my postings.

parsnip and pseudobadger - really well done!! i do love hearing about such significant successes, it just reinforces that this WOE really works. and equally it's good to hear about how others deal with difficulty/temptation successfully that i can hopefully learn from and implement.

on that note,
B: ham and cheese 'roulade'
L: mayo with tuna salad
D: steak and salad

will keep on keeping on, hope everyone has a good wednesday

StuntNun · 04/06/2014 11:15

LMD six weeks is a long time for a stall. Have you been taking measurements as well? Do your clothes feel any looser? Try googling 'breaking a low carb plateau' and you may find some tips that could work for you.

OP posts:
rubybricks · 04/06/2014 11:19

what a lovely, thoughtful post littlemiss Flowers
missed it while i was typing!

CQ · 04/06/2014 11:25

Interesting posts.

Am also feeling crap this last couple of days and weight staying stubbornly stuck so I think I have a combo of carb hangover and stall.

And, as Pingufan has been saying - it's actually good that I feel this crap, because next time I will think twice. Not sticking to this plan has far more consequences than the old 'debit & credit' system of most other diets. My poor metabolism is probably confused as hell as to what I'll put down my throat next.

Keeping on keeping on. Smile

Anyway, in other news, there's this interesting article in Runners World about running and low carbing. Makes a lot of sense. I have definitely felt over the last few weeks that my stamina is good and energy levels high but that I could not have increased my speed very much or done any high intensity training. But I'm hoping this will come as my body loses more weight and gets settled in this WOE.

StuntNun · 04/06/2014 11:31

It will come CQ I was doing mad HIIT yesterday and I never could do it before. I feel that by being fat-adapted I have a steady flow of energy when I'm exercising. On Monday I did an hour of Pilates then 50 minutes of kettlebells then still had the energy to do HIIT on the cross-trainer. Before low carbing I wouldn't have had that endurance because my glycogen stores would have been exhausted and I would have needed to rest/eat.

OP posts:
Birdinacage · 04/06/2014 11:34

I miss coffee Sad I used to live on the stuff but I just don't like it without sugar. I've tried to like it without but it isn't the same and I just don't enjoy it anymore, I find that a bigger temptation than not eating carbs (haven't given in to it though).

trash - I do understand where you're coming from and I'm not trying to say that everyone should just go mad and cheat and discuss it in detail on the thread at all. I agree that there has been a whole lot of cheating going on and I do understand that it can be demoralising to hear about it for some. My point really was that there have also been a lot of quite negative comments and reactions to it which are equally demoralising to the people on the other side who are obviously struggling. I don't see a problem in people saying that hearing about cheating is difficult for them and I feel that people should be considerate of that, there is no need for a detailed meal plan and exclamations of wonderfulness about slip ups or planned detours and I agree it can be hugely frustrating to find that someone else who has had these slip ups is still losing when people following the rules are struggling with that or to have to listen to the cries of woe when the cheating leads to a stall or gain. The problem is, I feel, that a blanket ban on any mention of cheating/slipping isn't going to help those who are struggling and just adds to the shame and failure issues so many people with weight or food problems already have. Also repeated angry and frustrated responses could easily put people off of either posting on the thread at all or even continuing bootcamp all together. We need to find a balance where by people are supportive of one another and considerate of everyone's feelings without polarising the thread.

Perhaps some clear guidelines on what can and can't be posted would help i.e if you have a slip up then say it happened, talk about why it happened, how you feel about it, how you are planning to approach that issue or situation again to allow you to stay strong next time etc. but not a huge description of what you ate and how it tasted etc if that is difficult for people to hear?

I'm not sure if a cheating confessional thread is the way to go at this stage, there is already a thread for people who have been doing it for a while to talk about maintaining/cheating and that's great but I think one for earlier in the bootcamp process might end up being a fast track to falling off the wagon totally? At least if people post that they slipped up on the bootcamp threads everyone (usually) says oh dear, that's not great but just get back on track and move on. I could see a cheating thread just ending up being oh I cheated hehe, yeah me too oops, go on just have another cake it wont matter....

Sarah - The point you made about feeling nervous about posting illustrates what I'm trying to say really well. There needs to be a balance so that people feel they can still post without upsetting or offending others and this applies to everyone on the thread. Again balance is what is needed and at the moment it all seems to be swinging between two extremes.

I sympathise about the cake thing, I'm the only one here low-carbing and everyone else loves cake, as the only one who can bake I'm the one who always has to make them and it is hard sometimes to watch everyone scoffing cupcakes etc when I can't. I haven't eaten a cake since starting bootcamp though, we should celebrate these victories however small we think they are Smile.

I also think that this part of your post is really important I can't control other people's actions but I can control my response to them. At the end of the day everyone is responsible for their own actions, if I read something on here about someone cheating and then go and cheat myself the responsibility for that lies squarely with me, no one can make me cheat and this is something I would need to tackle myself. After all the rest of the world isn't bootcamping and situations where we read about or see people eating, preparing or selling non bootcamp foods are going to happen, we need to be strong enough to take responsibility for our own reactions to this and not try to lay all the blame at someone else's feet.

pisses - To me the fact that, although you went and snacked, it was on something bc friendly shows that this thread and support is working for you. You didn't go and sack on a load of carbs so your mindset is obviously changing.

I wonder if some of peoples frustrations come from imposing such strict and rigid expectations on themselves. I am guilty of this myself and it has invariably led to me failing and then dwelling on it and getting demoralised. This time around I'm tying a new approach, being kind to myself. I try my best to stick to the rules, in 11 weeks I have slipped/cheated or whatever you want to call it 3 times, total. In the past this would have filled me with shame and frustration at myself and probably lead me to just give up but I am making a concious effort to forgive myself and to pick myself up and carry on (and I can honestly say I really don't think I will do it again, the excruciating headache I've had for the past 3 days is really NOT worth it for a tiny packet of waxy sugary disgustingness). I'm finding that this approach actually makes me feel more sympathetic to other peoples moments of weakness. I'm not saying that people should just stuff the rules and eat whatever they want, just that sometimes a negative reaction to slipping up is actually more destructive. I always find the funny warnings and friendly reminders to be helpful and supportive ways of making people consider their eating habits but recently the responses have been getting pretty aggressive.

Parsnipcake - My life is pretty dull too, I don't have conferences, trips away etc or ever eat out in nice restaurants and the last holiday I had was 4 years ago so you're not alone in that respect.

Biwi - I know that bootcamp is hard, I didn't realise when I first decided to do low-carb how hard it is but bootcamp certainly brings that to light very quickly.

Personally though if people are struggling or going wrong I don't take that to mean that they don't want to be here, it's easier for some people than others and I think some people don't even realise how badly they are doing until someone points it out to them. I don't think people talking regretfully about slipping up or having to have a planned cheat really deserve to be told to get out of bootcamp or just stop talking about their experiences because others are doing better or don't like to hear it, that isn't being supportive and won't help people work through their issues to find a way that works for them.

Equally people shouldn't come on the thread and go on and on about the food they have eaten that they shouldn't, how nice it was etc but for the most part it seems to be more along the lines of 'oh I messed up, it tasted awful, I feel awful, it wasn't worth it', I don't think that negative and excluding reactions to those posts are necessary when usually people are looking for support.

I think that everyone needs to be mindful of what they post and other peoples feelings, whether it be about what they have eaten/done or about how they react to other peoples posts. Also I don't think that any one specific poster has been really unsupportive, it's more the tone of the thread in general and the way it seems to be splitting down the middle that I wanted to comment on.

This reply is getting ridiculous now, I can't keep up with everyone and I would probably run out of room before replying to everybody but I just want to say that I'm not trying to have a go at anyone, or say that anyone's feelings are wrong or unworthy.I just didn't like the way the thread was heading. Sometimes these things need to be discussed so that everyone can express their though and feelings and we can hopefully find a resolution that works for everyone and keeps the bootcamp threads friendly, supportive and inclusive for everyone. And thank you to BIWI, StuntNun et al for all the hard work, this can't be an easy job and I'm sure everyone appreciates all your hard work even if we do all drive you up the wall sometimes Wink.

lowcarbforthewin · 04/06/2014 11:50

Thanks guys! I used to be a size 22-24, so I never, ever thought I'd be a size 14 again. And hoping that I can get down to a 12 which would just be brilliant.

Some really great posts. And you didn't offend, Pingu, I just wanted to explain a bit. I used to be totally slim and healthy. I then acquired my disability and the weight piled on, mostly in fact because of shit hospital food Angry, but also being very sedentary and comfort eating. I then had a breakdown, ballooned to 16.5 stones and found myself diagnosed with a binge eating disorder. I had never been that big before, sure a couple of stones overweight which didn't feel great and wasn't healthy, but it was this massively distressing change. I had never binged in my life before either and didn't understand people who did. I've lost 5.5 stones now, much of that through a low fat diet which then stopped working (and was miserable as sin). And I haven't binged in about 10 years, thankfully. But I did have a huge realisation in the autumn that whilst I don't binge, I was comfort eating still. And even if it only constituted a tiny amount of 'bad' food each day, it was making me maintain my weight. It's been really challenging trying to tackle that but every good day I have is a day towards succeeding. I start counselling next week too, just to have that extra support.

LittleMiss that sounds so frustrating. No suggestions other than take your measurements and see if they have shifted. I can't remember how much more you have to lose but it is harder when you don't have much less.

monkeyfacegrace · 04/06/2014 11:58

(.)(.)

lowcarbforthewin · 04/06/2014 12:34
Grin
antimatter · 04/06/2014 12:38

LittleMissDisorganised
I'm a size 14 and it's disgusting - how about rephrasing that you feel disgusting? Why?? That's not about the number, it's about something deeper than that.

I think when someone says I'm a size 14 and it's disgusting it feels to me they are disassociating themselves from underlying problem. It's my size I am complaining about not the thoughts and actions which keep me in that state.

Being honest with oneself about motivation or lack of it is shit!
We are grown ups, responsible for others with jobs which require a lot of self assurance and suddenly allowing that internal voice of criticism and DEALING with it in a proactive and positive manner and carrying on to this new path is often beyond one's capacity for self improvement.
So it is easier to say my size/body/diet is disgusting - not that MY choice of food/responses/decisions are disgusting.

StuntNun · 04/06/2014 12:54

One thing I've discovered on this Bootcamp is that comfort eating is an excuse my subconscious makes. That idea that I'm having a bad day so I deserve a treat or I'm having a good day so I deserve a celebration. I'm trying to turn that impulse towards other things so I'll have a low carb treat, or a herbal tea, or a bath, or five minutes reading a book. I don't know if that helps anyone else but you can make a conscious override of comfort eating with comfort 'doing something else enjoyable'.

OP posts: