Is there something on internet explaining, reasoning with a mean/thick deadbeat why he should, morally, pay maintenance?

[LiffeyKidman]

Just wondering?

My x is maggoty rich and doesn't contribute. He genuinely believes that he has no moral obligation to give me money towards the children because I left him, and therefore 'implicity undertook to pay for their upbringing'.

I can't argue or reason with that level of idiocy and denial, and I don't try anymore.

I am just wondering if there is anything on the internet, aimed at deadbeat fathers, to make them understand and face up to the fact that they are in the wrong not to contribute,,,

just wondering, because although for now I'm not persuing x for money, I will next year. (long story, legal issue).

Oh my goodness what a pathetic excuse of a parent you are N1. So wrapped in the bitterenss you have towards your ex that you cannot see past it.

How very dare that woman leave you without your permission, without discussing it with you first. Do you realise how, manitpulative and controlling you come across as?

She is not to blame for you being £40,000 in debt, YOU are, you bought it upon yourself, can you not see that? of course not, you are deluded.

Wow i am actually sitting here with my jaw on my lap after reading your posts, how unbelieably selfish and controlling you are, i feel very very sorry for your ds.

There are always two sides to every story Vinegar. You obviously disagree with N1 but we shouldn't try to judge unless you've walked a mile in his shoes.

In this case I think his view on why he is refusing to pay any maintenance is useful.

I'm sure his ex is not exactly blameless.

Blimey niceguy2, i wasnt saying his ex is blameless, but to punish his dc by not paying maintenance is to going to achieve anything good, he would rather go to prison than give his son money, i am astounded

All of the issues he has with his ex should be seperated from maintenance payments

If he wants custody, apply to the courts

If he thinks she is neglecting him, report her to SS

Dont take it out on the dc by not supporting him finacially, jeez, he is just using this to get back at his ex, his ds is missing out because he is bitter and twisted, can he not see that?

Also there is nothing in my last post that hasnt already been said to him on this thread, so why are you defending him now? So his ex is the bitch from hell, is that really a good excuse to not give his child maintenance?

Like a lot of men, he is confusing the issue, he thinks that by paying maintenance, he is giving his ex money to put in her pocket, when actually he is not, he is helping support a child, he is helping to pay for is sons upbringing

'In this case I think his view on why he is refusing to pay any maintenance is useful'

Which part of his view do you think is a valid excuse to not pay up?

If you ask for my personal opinion then I'd say that he should pay maintenance. Its both his legal and personal responsibility to.

But it doesn't mean i automatically condemn him for an experience I have no knowledge of. Thats all I am saying!

And the useful comment was directed at giving an alternative opinion to the original poster's question which seems to have been lost in the whole lynching of N1.

N1

Are you lostdad?

Of course, the other way of looking at it is that N1 is victimizing is ex and his own son, both of whom are entirely blameless. He's not been lynched, he's been reasoned with above and beyond the call of duty. And put in his place a bit, but why not. He so had it coming. He is posting on a forum full of people struggling with selfish ex-partners like him. I have been in his shoes and then some, but I don't see what difference this makes. I don't feel this gives me the right to judge him, I think I had that right anyway!

In answer to the original question, I think he has been reasoned with far beyond my patience threshold. I think now it's time for him to reflect. In prison. For as long as it takes. The way he's behaving, that's going to happen.

Thank you Dittany! I agree with you of course!

My x abused me for 8 yrs, he gives us nothing, not a red cent, and I let him see the children whenever he likes ...He's not coming this month because he's going skiing.

Way back in about 2001, I was culpable for bending to society's pressure to be part of a couple, and staying with a man who I was beginning to sense wasn't quite the decent guy I wished he were. (I didn't know the half of it then).

But I'm not culpable of anything other than the utter lunacy of clining on to a relationship that never had a chance for nearly a decade. Jesus! What a fool! Guilty of being a fool that's what I am.

culpapble of I mean.

For the record, if I didn't write it earlier. I have been willing to pay directly to any activity that my son wants to be involved in. If I had any legal (or moral way) of the ex taking my son to beavers and swimming, I would have arranged that, but the ex is so focused on doing her best to oppose anything I offer to pay for because she gets nothing out of it.

I am not withholding money from my son, I refuse to pay money (cash or similar) to the ex. My son can have anything he wants and if I can afford it. Sometimes I have to save money for a month or few.

I have offered to get cloths and pay for activities that my son wants. If ex feels she can suggest something more, I am open to consideration.

If I am faced with not seeing my son or getting something he wants. Son gets the option. It costs me £80 round trip to have him for the weekend. He can visit me or have what he wants. To date, he has always wanted to visit me. I do feel that it's unfair to give that sort of option to a child, but sadly I feel it's not only my decision to make, DS helps make that decision.

RE £40 000. I do blame ex for most of that. She took every little thing she possible could back to court. I was quoted £5000 to £7000 for everything. Just the child part of the separation cost £30 000, and I have hardly started on the finances yet. Had I not been forced into LIP, my legal bill would have been well into the £80 000 by now.

At the start of separation, I was well in financial trouble and I could not afford to pay anything. Ex was hell bent on forcing the issue. As much as I tried to explain that I had twice the outgoing than the income, she could/would not listen and made her demands louder. As time went on, the finances downward trend got less steep and I looked for ways to pay something while also keeping myself in a position to stop paying if I needed to (I was on shaky ground). I could not find a way to start a process and stop it if I had to, which lead me to come to the conclusion that it would be better to not pay at all than start paying and then stop. The stop could be because I couldn't afford it or because ex was not using the money for the child. As time went on, I dug my heels in. I am already at the point that come hell or high water, I will not be paying ever. To be very specific, I will not pay anything to my ex. I will not pay the CSA who simply pass on money to my ex. I will pay for anything that I can know goes directly to my son and I can see it going there. An activity is a good example. If ex (as I expect she would) stops taking my son, the organizer can alert me and tell me to stop paying or ask me to chase my ex up. I do accept that my attitude sounds controlling, but can I be fairly asked to pay money to someone who I can't trust? I feel that I am doing the best thing that I can by doing what I do.

I also know that if I started paying money to Ex, and stopped, I would face a volley of blocked contacts, abuse (most likely verbal), another round of intimidation....etc. I am better off not starting something that has potential to cause conflict again.

My friends have suggested that I am wrong for not paying - true, they can see my point and I can see theirs. On that topic, we agree to disagree and generally on everything else we are usually in agreement or a happy medium.

I have been "lynched" several times on various forums. The process is not unfamiliar to me. I don't welcome the behavior but I do accept that some parents are so determined to make their ex pay money to them that they turn nasty, regardless of if the bloke can afford it or not. If I went back to earning £30 000 a year, I would still not pay my ex, I would offer to give my son more of anything he wanted or save for uni. Sadly the CSA vultures hover over me and as soon as it looks like I am climbing out of debt, I get a CSA letter asking for money. I am better off as I am....for the next 10 odd years. If I progress myself, I loose jobs and am in and out of court fighting for access.

I would consider an application for a change of residency, but if I progress that, I should get my son, but I would have to paint the ex black in court and she is likely to loose her other children - so I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. While I personally don't think she should have any children in her care, the other children are not my offspring and it's not for me to decide. The younger children are adoptable commodities and I don't think I should cause something that makes my son loose out on his half sibling relationships. If someone has any suggestion about solving this problem, I am most interested to hear about it.

I am not "lostdad".

'The younger children are adoptable commodities' ?!

If you thought your ex was so incapable or abusive to your ds, presumably you'd be starting proceedings for a change of residency because he was in danger or being seriously neglected.

It's not a move in a game. That you might or might not make.

You do seem to have some terribly worrying issues around control, tbh.

'adoptable commodities' Nutter1 you have been revealed.
As long as you believe a child is a commodity you will never get it. If I were your ex I would just drop you, have minimum contact including any money owed and leave it to another person for hand overs etc.
I'm not being funny but Do you suffer from some form of aspergers? Because this may explain a few things about your mindset.

Mamas12, funny you should suggest that, I sometimes wonder if my x has a 'high-functioning' form of Aspergers. He has an extremely good job and is very good at it, and always had 'exam-success'. But INCAPABLE of seeing things from any other perspective besides his own.

(THat doesn't excuse the name-calling and the controlling behaviour though).

N1 If a woman has children by more than one man, and the fathers are so determined that not a cent of their money go towards another child's mouth that they prefer to give nothing, then, in theory the children get nothing from anybody...

I am glad you are able to weather the arguing N1, because it is interesting and unusual to have a man who'll admit to and defend his decision not to contribute.

Some of the excuses you use, my x couldn't even use them. He does have money. But in his case, the excuse is that it is 'tied up'. He gets to have investments and I get to sacrafice salary so that I can look after children. But again, like you, like frosty's x BIL, he wouldn't have a good word to say about me. I'm a quitter, a lazy selfish loser blah blah

No matter how poor your x is, she has to provide a home for her children, so she's unable to rent a bedsit eg, and save. NOT possible. UNable to get a day job as she has to be there for her children, so earning a good salary, NOT POSSIBLE, not without losing it all back to childcare. So, high earning and saving NOT POSSIBLE for your x. They ARE POSSIBLE FOR YOU THOUGH. You are in the fortunate position that you can work and you can save. You have debts, but I agree, they are at least 50% your responsibility because you tried to bulldoze over your x and it didn't work.

Now, accept the new situation with some clarity. YOU have more chances to get back on your feet than your x does, who is up to her knees in children by the sounds of it. Some of them other people's children (how many? ONE other father??) I hope the other child's father doesn't have the same mindset!! or there will be a lot of deprived children sraping by. Their one childhood done and dusted in under privilege.

i have followed this with some interest
and am glad that i haven't had any personal dealings with the CSA
i can completely understand that this topic is a controversial one and also an ongoing reality for many
it is also helpful to come on here and discuss it in a forum
it is meant as a means to put across your POV
and whilst the postings of N1 have enraged many of you i do not feel that some of the comments are entirely appropriate and especially on here
i frankly find the reference to aspergers as somewhat distasteful
aren't we meant to be adults FFS!!

Aspergers sprang to my mind on reading N1's posts tbh. I don't mean to be offensive N1 but you seem to have a complete inability to see any perspective other than your own. I'll post later when I have more time.

"UNable to get a day job as she has to be there for her children"

Rubbish, plenty single parents work and take care of their kids. Having children doesn't mean you cannot work at the same time. Harder yes, impossible...no.

Niceguy, it's possible if you have a chunky salary that will cover childcare for 2 (or 3 or 4 children). I can't do it and make a profit. I could work, but there is no point being away from my children and not making any money either. I'm an educated person and I still can't earn enough to outweigh the cost of childcare.

So often, people on 50k a year will say to me 'i can't afford to stay at home' and look at me as though I'm a lazy inbred, but they haven't a notion of the practical obstacles.

I actually think its less offensive for posters to be considering aspergers as an explanation of N1's frankly appalling attitude, than it would be for them to be piling in and calling him names.

Posters are often reminded to consider the possibility of some form of SN when judging the behaviour of children, and rightly so as some people genuinely do have difficulty considering the POV/feelings/circumstances of others.

ps, of course, it might be possible for some single mothers with older children or when the father contributes towards the childcare expenses.

I one child ALL day and the other from one on. N1's x seems to have a litter of younger children, as he tells it.

Sit down with a calculator niceguy and tell me how much you think she'd need to earn to make it viable. Supposing she has 2 children younger than N1's 12 yr old.

AnarchyAunt, my son is thought to be very mildly on the ASD. They were asking me if there was any history of Autism in the family and it was like DING DONG! The bag came off my head and I realised my x had Aspergers. I'm sure he does.