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Is there something on internet explaining, reasoning with a mean/thick deadbeat why he should, morally, pay maintenance?

285 replies

LiffeyKidman · 16/01/2009 10:50

Just wondering?

My x is maggoty rich and doesn't contribute. He genuinely believes that he has no moral obligation to give me money towards the children because I left him, and therefore 'implicity undertook to pay for their upbringing'.

I can't argue or reason with that level of idiocy and denial, and I don't try anymore.

I am just wondering if there is anything on the internet, aimed at deadbeat fathers, to make them understand and face up to the fact that they are in the wrong not to contribute,,,

just wondering, because although for now I'm not persuing x for money, I will next year. (long story, legal issue).

OP posts:
Biscuits4cheese · 17/01/2009 19:29

N1 - So you wont pay maintenance because you believe yoour ex would divert the money from the child and keep it for herself?
So rather than take that chance you have chosen to divert the money from your child and keep it for yourself?

N1 · 17/01/2009 19:30

I stand my ground when it comes to my son.

My ex, some 5 years ago tried to intimidate me out of the child's life. Her attempts didn't work. She then tried to bring me to financial ruin, so I couldn't afford to see my son or afford to live. That didn't work.

Ex didn't manage to make me to poor to see my son, she did however manage to get me into so much debt that finding a relationship is near on impossible. What woman would want a person riddled with debt, unless she was in a similar situation. Ex got that, but it's not the end of the world.

dittany · 17/01/2009 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

N1 · 17/01/2009 20:08

The payback point relates to me being sent to jail.

To date, my ex has lied to the police about me, lied to court about me. Both attempts to get me intimidated away, but I fought through the process. Friends I used to visit were identified by my ex "interrogating" my son and the police went to them asking questions about me. Of course the friends don't want the police asking questions and to get the police away, I shouldn't visit.

The ex seems to fuel the CSA and ask them to send me to jail. It's getting to the point where I don't mind being sent to jail. A jail sentence will not make me pay, just make me more angry.

TheNinkynork · 17/01/2009 20:14

Sorry, but why does your son need cloths N1?

I agree with PP who has said that if you were really concerned that your ex was frittering away child support money, you would have been putting it in the bank for your son's future.

My ExH was told to pay £30 p.w for my DD so he promptly moved in with his widowed Mum, (no housing costs, council tax, phone, T.V, water, gas, electric, cleaning products, food, personal stuff, ie soap, toothpaste, razors, blah blah)

He is on disability because his Dad died and he is depressed. (Doesn't everyone's Dad die?) The money he gets is pocket money. Where does it go? Drinks and drugs I suspect, everything else is provided by Mummy.

If Ex H had been saving the £30 pw that the CSA says then my DD would have about 12K by now. And by Uni age - enough to see her through.

Happily, my new DH has been a fabulous Daddy to DD. Was I wrong leaving tosser Ex? No no no no no no no no no. I had every right.

N1 · 17/01/2009 20:32

The clothing issue came about in court when ex tried to blacken me in front of the Judge, claiming that I refused to get my son anything, even clothing. I explained that I had never been asked to get cloths. A few days later, I got a list of preferred cloths. I made a day out of the clothing point for my son to Street village and got the clothing list purchased and a few more bits. It took me over a month of saving to get the money together to get those cloths.

Paying the interest on £40 000 is not easy. In theory, I should go bankrupt, but I can't just yet.

I am not opposed to separations if the relationship won't work, what I am opposed to is a separation without there being an agreement to separate or arrangements set in place before the separation so everyone knows what's what before the change.

When my ex left, she became the most unreasonable person ever (apart from the lies). Legal aid was paying for her legal services and allowing her to lie to the court. Arguably, her solicitor might not have known she was lieing. I was quoted £4000 to £8000 to sort the lies out from the truth, which I couldn't afford. Ex sat in court all smug, knowing that I wouldn't pay to get the lies separated from the truth.

If I had £30 a week to save, I would be saving it.

I don't drink, I don't smoke and I hardly go out. All money I keep is money to get me to my son to collect and money for the return trip. Change from that pays for my son to go swimming, to the park or where ever he wants to go.

Lauriefairycake · 17/01/2009 20:45

Have you had to move far away from your son then or has he moved far from you?

duchesse · 17/01/2009 20:53

I'm sorry, N1, but all that proves is that jumping in with a legal case and spending £40 000 on legal fees that you could have used to spend on things for your child is at best a foolish misuse of your funds.

Even my sister, whose ex is a seriously stalky, violent and abusive fruitcake, managed to arrange access for her ex to his children (he, incidentally does not pay a penny towards their maintenance, but uses access visits as a vector for more threats and abuse to my sister), and all for a little over £1000. She is still paying this off at £100 a month, and after the initial representation by her solicitor and a barrister, has represented herself ever since.

You seem quite vocal enough to have represented yourself in the family court, and the courts are extremely keen to maintain access by fathers (even for certifiable fruitcakes like my sister's ex), so I am mystified about how you managed to rack up £40,000 in legal fees.

By the way, my ex fruitcake brother out law also feels that my sister has pursued and "victimised" him through the courts, despite the fact that he was being prosecuted by the Crown for harassment and harassment with violence. A perspective readjustment needed I feel.

I don't know you or your particular circumstances, but you are not casting yourself in a very sympathetic light on this thread I must say.

N1 · 17/01/2009 21:46

Ex and my son moved away. I moved out the area a year later because ex was blocking contact during the week and weekend contact was difficult. I moved into a new relationship.

It took me 2 years to discover the advantage of being LIP, I had £30 00 debt then and I was forced into LIP (I couldn't borrow any more money). Since becoming LIP, things have turned for the better. Coincidently, ex is now paying a solicitor and bringing matters to court. To date, I have has her applications struck out and she was ordered to pay my costs (minimal costs).

I don't look for sympathy. The OP asked a question. I don't think there is an answer, so I offered her my perspective.

sarah293 · 18/01/2009 09:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

solidgoldsoddingjanuaryagain · 18/01/2009 09:27

N1: I have read some of your other threads and begun to form the opinion that the only relationships you should aspire to are with blow-up dolls. Now that opinion is confirmed.
You clearly can't get your fat head round the concept that women are people and do not owe you deference or obediemce.
No wonder your ex left you. It's probably the best thing she ever did for herself.

noonki · 18/01/2009 11:12

N1

My DH can relate to some of what you have ben through. He and his ex split acrimoniously when DSS was 6 months.
His ex has been incredibly manipulative. She openly tells me that she decided she wanted a child and knew DH would make a good dad so told him she was infertile. They split before she knew she was pregnant, they then tried to reconcile but they argued constantly so DH left when DSS was 6 months. He still says that was the hardest decision of his life.

His ex used access as tool to have control over him. If she was in a mood, no access, if she was jealous of him no access.

My DH isn't perfect, he can be grumpy and hard to talk too but he has never let his son down.; He has never played games with access or with his maintence payments. Even when he was made redundant he kept up payment. He may question with me what the money goes on and have a bitch that she never has worked. But he pays regardless. When we got married she got all funny (8 years after the split) and we had no access for 6 months, the same when DS2 was born.

But the money was a given. If she buggered off for the next 6 years and we never saw DSS, DH would still pay the money because it's the right thing to do.

So what if not every penny goes on his child, how can he control that? If it means his DS gets a mother who is slightly stressed as she doesn't have to watch every single penny then good.

OK if DSS was going short of food, heat and clothing then he would take steps, he would look into paying off the gas bill or getting asda vouchers. he would also look into whether his child was being properly cared for. But as it is his basic needs are being met so any money after that he has no say in.

He can't dictate what money goes where. And life is too short to be that petty.

If you want to have the entire upbringing of your child to be one long argument you are going about it the right way. If I were you I would move on from the past.It's happened its over.

All that matters is your child, and at the moment your money games are a contributing factor to the dispute between you and your ex. They may not be the sole problem or the cause but for sure they are making them worse. So you can moan on and on 'but she does this and she left and and blah blah'. But you can't control her actions, only your own. Your child doesn't care she wants her parents to get on.

My DH knows that if the question is ever asked that he can look his son in the eye and say that he played a part in his upbringing as much as he could financially and emotionally. I don't think in all honesty you will be able to on either front.

LadyLiffey · 18/01/2009 12:09

I may be flamed for this, but I think your x had good reason to move away from you.

You are INCAPABLE of seeing anything from a perspective other than your own.

There's no navel-gazing or self-examination from you whatsoever. You hate what your x 'did'. You mean, leaving???

You want to bulldoze over her. Your will against her will. Representing yourself in court shows such a righteous indignation and such a sense of martyrdom it takes make my breath away.

But, the situation is that your son's mother (who has accused you of being abusive) moved to be near her family for their support. You SEE your son. You don't contribute.

glitterfairy · 18/01/2009 12:50

THis has nothing to do with the adults and everything to do with the kids. Not wanting to contribute to them is the worst kind of moral bankruptcy and shows a self centred and mean personality.

It is not up to the CSA or you as to what the money goes on, just as it is not up to the government as to what taxes are spent on.

N1 you are no longer in control and you sound as bad as the picture of your X if not worse. As I said this is not about either of you it is about your kid. Stop being selfish and pay what the CSA say without strings.

Ivykaty44 · 18/01/2009 12:53

His children can - and it has been done, where a child grew up and then when they reached 18 took the NRP to court to make the NRP pay towards their university fees and the child of the broken down marriage won the case and the father was forced to pay.

LadyLiffey · 18/01/2009 16:57

wow, that's interesting ivykaty44. I'd like to see my x forced to pay university fees...

BouncingTurtle · 18/01/2009 17:11

N1 - I am the child whose father refused to support. The only difference between my case and yours is that my father was the one that left.

I can assure you that I have a lot of resentment towards my father for the opportunities I missed out on because my mother couldn't afford to pay. I still have a sort of relationship with my dad but it is a very fragile one. And he is on the verge fucking that up and losing touch with me and his only grandson. My 2 brothers will have nothing to do with him.

If you can live with that good for you.
But you are a grown man punishing your children for the actions of your ex.

But well done well for posting and sticking you next out anyway... I respect you for that if nothing else.

YeahBut · 18/01/2009 17:42

N1, your comments reminded me of a thread on here not so long ago. I've tried to find it but it may have been deleted. In essence, the OP had been asked by her (I think) nearly teenaged son what she did with the maintenance payments that her xp made to her for the ds's upbringing. Only problem being that, despite regular access visits, he had never paid the OP a penny. So that's what she was counselled to tell her son. She tried very hard to keep her personal feelings about his behaviour out of the discussion, however it was very difficult for her son to understand how a father who claims to love his son and want to be a part of his life can justify failing to make any financial contribution.
My point being, N1, that your son will indeed grow up one day. And rather than see his mum as some evil woman that did his father wrong, he'll see the woman that has taken sole financial responsibility for his upbringing. He'll see you as the guy that was too pissed off with his ex and consumed by the failure of that relationship to worry about him.

sarah293 · 18/01/2009 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

N1 · 19/01/2009 00:20

For the record (and I am not trying to discredit anyone's perspective). My son wanted to live with me but got punished for asking his mother (or expressing his wishes). It got to the point (other reasons) when I had to take the case back to court.

I am not sure that my ex told my son, but he told CAFCASS everything he wanted with the exception, he wasn't sure about where he wanted to live. I accepted what my son said, with explanation of saying that it would be better for him to spend a few more years with his mother (as much as he doesn't want to). I know where he is and he gets to see me (for now). DS accepted that.

I very much doubt that he would have any resentment against me when he gets older. There is more than just my son in the ex's house and there are variable and inconsistent amounts of money and attention given to the various children, to the point that some of the children feel that they are unfairly treated. Ex's house is a ticking time bomb of problems going to explode at some point.

Ex thinks about herself and not anyone else. If her needs are met then what ever is left goes to the nearest child or the current favourite.

solidgoldsoddingjanuaryagain · 19/01/2009 00:37

N1: I'd be more inclined to wonder if maybe your XW really was an evil selfish bitch if I hadn;t seen other threads of yours along the lines of 'MN! Tell this woman to obey me or die! A relationship is all about a woman putting my needs first at all times!'.

If everyone thinks you're being a dick about a particular issue, it might be time to consider that they've got a point.

N1 · 19/01/2009 00:40

fair comment. thanks, but no thanks.

glitterfairy · 19/01/2009 07:32

N1 how do you know this about your X and her home circumstances or is this more prejudice?

LadyLiffey · 19/01/2009 08:58

"Ex thinks about herself and not anyone else. If her needs are met then what ever is left goes to the nearest child or the current favourite."

This is what my x might say about me (although he is the father of both my children). I am up at 3am mopping up vomit and I have no pension, but he would put his hand on a bible and swear in court that I am selfish (and then drive home to the house he owns in his £40k car).

Niceguy2 · 19/01/2009 09:12

Wow. What a sad example of two people so caught up in fighting each other that they've lost sight of whats important.....the child.

N1, you obviously believe you've done the right thing and no amount of ppl flaming you here will make you see otherwise. I do wonder what your ex's version of events would be though. No doubt her side would be full of lies just as she'd probably say about your version. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Liffey, your thread seems to have been hijacked. In short your ex knows fine well he SHOULD contribute but he's choosing not to. There's no magic website which will suddenly make him change his mind. Pass it over to the CSA and let them do their job.

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