DD unhappy at dad and step mums

[MishaBukvic]

Hi everyone,
Just looking for some advice...

I split with my daughters father in 2018. He (John) is now married to Jane with a baby daughter. He sees our daughter (Liz - age9) every other weekend.

From the early days of their relationship, Liz and Jane haven't got along. Jane thinks Liz has poor behaviour and a bad attitude. They will have a good weekend and then it falls back into Liz getting told off each time.

I don't have/see the bad behaviour when Liz is with me. They are a polite child, sometimes a bit 'away-with-the-fairies' but it's very rare I see bad behaviour from her.

When John brings Liz home from their weekend together, I ask how things have gone - the answer is usually the same "we had problems with Liz's attitude again, not listening and having to be asked twice to do things".

I don't often have to tell her twice to do anything, and I can't get to the bottom of why it's different at her dads house.

Jane has repeatedly accused Liz of giving her the dead eye. When questioned, Liz denies it . John claims he has seen (once) Liz giving the dead eye to Jane. Liz said daddy couldn't have seen it happen because he wasn't in the room when Jane told me off for scowling.

Liz says that she feels Jane doesn't like her. Liz sometimes worries about going to see her dad because she's is scared of "getting to trouble when it's not my fault".

This weekend it came to a crisis point where there was a big argument between John and Jane about Liz's behaviour. Liz wasn't talking to Jane, and would only talk when Jane was out of the room. Jane was hurt and angry by this.
John told Liz that her attitude must change.
Liz told her dad that she is getting bullied at school. Her dads response was "if you bring that up again, I will bully you". John has admitted he said this, and has admitted it was wrong.
Liz has said that her dad said "if this carries on, daddy will wish he has only one daughter, not two". John denies he said this.

It just sounds such a toxic environment. I am not 100% sure who to believe but I worry my child is in a bad environment. But I do acknowledge that kids can be manipulative and lie.

Would it be reasonable of me to ask that we have a break from Liz going to her dads house for the dust to settle? How do I get to the bottom of what exactly is going on with my child in that house?

??? If Jane did want to do it, it wouldn't be altruistic. It could well show the op the attitude Liz has with Jane. It could show Jane how pleasant Liz can be when she behaves.

Seems you've assumed different, but I've no more empathy for Jane or the OP. Like I said, I think the new baby has likely destabilized things, as new babies will, and a new way of being has to be found.

I do think that if another lady was constantly telling one of my kids off while im not there I'd want to get to the bottom of it.

Nothing like some stepmum-loathing speculation dressed up as inevitable fact is there?

It never ceases to amaze me the kind of misogyny dressed up as child-centredness people manage on MN.

@pikkumyy77
You don’t get strict parenting when a child is only there EOW?!

It might not be strict they may just have rules because there are other children in the house and because they don’t want the older child behaving badly (maybe they want her to grow up to be a nice person).

I’m only in the office one day a month, shall I ignore, glare and be rude to everyone there because who cares, it’s once a month.

Being a child with separated parents isn’t a free pass.

If Jane did want to do it, it wouldn't be altruistic. It could well show the op the attitude Liz has with Jane. It could show Jane how pleasant Liz can be when she behaves.

Of course it would be. Jane would get nothing out of it, compared to OP who would get something out of it. Jane might get to hear that Liz can be better behaved elsewhere is a pretty flimsy motivation for her to put herself out.

Seems you've assumed different, but I've no more empathy for Jane or the OP. Like I said, I think the new baby has likely destabilized things, as new babies will, and a new way of being has to be found.

I'm glad if that's the case, I'm just going off what you said. In the same comment, you said it would tell you something about the SM if she didn't want to do it - something that is a common stick to beat with SM's with on here, and then said how understandable it would be if OP - who actually would get something out of it and have a reason to want to do it - found it unpalatable and didn't want to. That gives a strong impression of sympathising with one and not the other.

I do think that if another lady was constantly telling one of my kids off while im not there I'd want to get to the bottom of it.

Well yes, hence why OP would want to. Less clear why the other lady would want to!

The way that John has happily taken the role of secondary rather than equal parent to OP makes me wonder if the side eye is actually directed at John rather than Liz because he's not equal parent in that household too? As the parent of Liz he should be doing the bilk of the care of Liz there.

WTF has everyone jumped to the step mum no longer wanting Liz around?!!

Where the hell does it say that…might be news to some but children can be rude to adults 😱 if any of my kids were rude like that to an adult then I’d want them pulling up on it. Why shouldn’t Jane call Liz out on her behaviour given she’s part of the family.

Liz needs some one to one but excluding Jane from everything will make things worse. It reinforces potentially bad behaviour as it will have the desired result. Maybe Liz and Jane could spend some bonding time together?

Mum and Jane spending time together is laughable. It will blur boundaries for Liz but, more importantly, what will mum do if she’s doesn’t like Jane?!

If this wasn’t a step family situation and Liz was behaving like this towards her mum, peoples tunes would be very different.

It could show Jane how pleasant Liz can be when she behaves.

@SquidwardBound
And what would that achieve?

My son’s stepmum was like this.. turned out she was physically as well as verbally abusing him. The police were involved, he’s still in therapy, and has zero contact with his dad. She did an absolute number on his self esteem and it has had a massive impact that he’s only beginning to recover from over a year later.
So I would absolutely believe your daughter, you need to have her back. Perhaps you could suggest contact in a neutral place without SM present? But if she’s not happy going there, I wouldn’t push it, I just wish I’d seen the signs sooner with ds, but the narrative of pushing contact - as evident on this thread - is so pervasive.

gah. It’s too easy to press post on mn.

It may also make Lis’s behaviour at her dad’s much, much worse.

After all, it gives her a chance to prove that her mum is just better and that might help to get rid of SM.

I was quoting but the post button is annoyingly placed on MN.

Nothing useful is my hypothesis.

@MrsRinaDecker
If Liz was moaning about her mum, would you suggest she lives with dad or is taken into care.

Enough of the stepmum bashing, jeez.

I am sorry your son went through that tough but please don’t tar us all with the same brush.

@SquidwardBound
ahh, I see and agree

Let’s just let Jane sit there while Liz shows her how much she loves her mum and how nice she is to mum compared to Jane.

Not tarring anyone with any brushes. I’m sure there are some amazing stepmums around.
And I’m sure if dc was reluctant to leave dad’s or go home to mum and was making complaints about a stepdad figure treating them badly that that should be taken very seriously as well. It just happens in this post that it is a female stepparent.

Do you know what? It’s bloody ridiculous that people post threads like this in stepparenting.

It’s not a step parenting issue at all. It’s a co-parenting after divorce issue with a convenient SM who never appears on stage so can be even better vilified.

This should be in lone parenting or something. It’s not OK that this is what stepparenting is used for.

Thanks to @MNHQ for moving it over to lone parenting.

Who says kids have to like their step parent? I didn't like my step mum. She just wasn't my type of person. I went to see my dad not her and whilst I didn't want any relationship with her I was just polite. You can't force a relationship between a child and a step parent. She's not your dd's mother - you are. Your ex has a part to play in this problem. Maybe you could suggest he take your dd out just the two of them for a few hours rather than sleep over, then build it up from there.

Before long she will be an age where she probably won't want to go anyway. That's just how teenagers are sometimes too. It shouldn't be forced.

@MrsRinaDecker
I didn’t ask you about step dads, I asked would you feel the same about removing a child form biological parents if a child had said what Liz has?

I‘ m sorry that’s your experience but, statistically, it’s not often the case.

@SquidwardBound
Good shout…although all the lone parents will just blame the stepmum. I don’t look on there though.

I don’t know, it is fundamentally about Liz being unhappy with her stepmum. There’s no indication that she’s badly behaved for her father. Perhaps OP wanted Jane’s perspective.

For what it’s worth, if I were in Jane’s shoes I’d be open to meeting and forming a relationship with OP if I thought it’d help with Liz’s behaviour. Otherwise, it looks like they’re heading for total estrangement or a pre-teen being increasingly unacceptably rude to her, in her own home, in front of her impressionable young child, which her husband doesn’t seem to be able to resolve. I’d also be willing to discuss consistent sanctions and expectations across both homes and tactics that OP thought would help.

Did your daughter mention bullying to you before? Strange she suddenly opened up to her dad straight after being told off for being rude when you are her primary caregiver and probably have her trust more..
What did you say to your daughter when you have been told she doesn't talk in the presence of the step mum?

Why is John only seeing Liz 4 days a month but has time for another baby? And yet everything is Janes fault.

Firstly he cannot be an adequate parent in this amount of time and is clearly failing at the job. of course jane is the subject of lizs ire as apparently she is the only one attempting to parent and has birthed a new sibling into this dynamic who gets her father 24/7

He needs to step up and parent and stop making shitty little comments to a 9 y/o old.
agree some boundaries between the both of your houses and stick to it.

@beAsensible1
Because that’s probably the contact arrangement due to an array of possible factors…parenting isn’t always about the number of hours you spend with a child

The OP’s post put up red flags for me @holachicas based on my experience of step parents. But I’d like to hope that a good dad would take their child seriously if they made a complaint about mum. Because for many years abuse of children went unchecked because we automatically disbelieved them over adults.

Oh fgs.

Just so you know, I actually only know step mums and they always get the shitty end of the stick. Its most likely Liz is acting up at least a little for reasons I keep saying. I've no axe to grind with step parents, from what I can see it's a bloody thankless job.

If there was to be a meeting, best case scenario, Jane wants it because she wants to improve her relationship with her stepchild! No one actually wants that level of conflict in a home. I also assume Jane wants to do everything she can to facilitate a good relationship between John and Liz. OP gets a better read on Jane, she'll be able to tell if she's being kind or dismissive or even fake kind for the occasion.

Understand if no one wants this shit dinner party, but that's what I'd want to do, so that's why I commented.