DD unhappy at dad and step mums

[MishaBukvic]

Hi everyone,
Just looking for some advice...

I split with my daughters father in 2018. He (John) is now married to Jane with a baby daughter. He sees our daughter (Liz - age9) every other weekend.

From the early days of their relationship, Liz and Jane haven't got along. Jane thinks Liz has poor behaviour and a bad attitude. They will have a good weekend and then it falls back into Liz getting told off each time.

I don't have/see the bad behaviour when Liz is with me. They are a polite child, sometimes a bit 'away-with-the-fairies' but it's very rare I see bad behaviour from her.

When John brings Liz home from their weekend together, I ask how things have gone - the answer is usually the same "we had problems with Liz's attitude again, not listening and having to be asked twice to do things".

I don't often have to tell her twice to do anything, and I can't get to the bottom of why it's different at her dads house.

Jane has repeatedly accused Liz of giving her the dead eye. When questioned, Liz denies it . John claims he has seen (once) Liz giving the dead eye to Jane. Liz said daddy couldn't have seen it happen because he wasn't in the room when Jane told me off for scowling.

Liz says that she feels Jane doesn't like her. Liz sometimes worries about going to see her dad because she's is scared of "getting to trouble when it's not my fault".

This weekend it came to a crisis point where there was a big argument between John and Jane about Liz's behaviour. Liz wasn't talking to Jane, and would only talk when Jane was out of the room. Jane was hurt and angry by this.
John told Liz that her attitude must change.
Liz told her dad that she is getting bullied at school. Her dads response was "if you bring that up again, I will bully you". John has admitted he said this, and has admitted it was wrong.
Liz has said that her dad said "if this carries on, daddy will wish he has only one daughter, not two". John denies he said this.

It just sounds such a toxic environment. I am not 100% sure who to believe but I worry my child is in a bad environment. But I do acknowledge that kids can be manipulative and lie.

Would it be reasonable of me to ask that we have a break from Liz going to her dads house for the dust to settle? How do I get to the bottom of what exactly is going on with my child in that house?

Is she being bullied at school? If so what are you and her dad doing about it?
If she genuinely isn't badly behaved or rude with you, then clearly something is going awry at her dads. Sounds like dad needs to spend some 1:1 time with his daughter, to talk to her and work out what is going on.
I suspect her dad cba to step up and parent, so step mum is stepping into the breech, so of course Liz is going to resent it, c'mon most of us can get pissy when we are told what to do by someone who technically has very little authority over us, I mean look at all the mum-in-law threads on here!
You know some children really struggle when a sibling comes along in a nuclear family, how much harder is that when it's a step sibling.
In 4/5 years Liz has had to get used to: parents splitting, parent re-marrying (or at least partnering up) and a new sibling. That's a lot of change at 9 years old, is it any wonder she is misbehaving?
Op I think Liz and John need 1:1 time together to rebuild their relationship and then slowly build back up to more blended family time.

Based on the shit thing John admits saying, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that he said the second shit thing.

Reacting to a child telling you they’re being bullied that way, is a total fail.

John and Jane sound shit, and Liz can’t do anything right at their house. She probably is unhappy, quiet, and uncommunicative there, because she feels picked on.

I’d stop sending her.

I agree

It sounds like a horrible environment for your dd. It sounds like Jane finds Liz really irritating and is picking on her constantly.

And the dad sounds horrible too

I agree with this. Contact is meant to be for your DD's benefit. That doesn't mean everyone should run round after her giving her the 'Disney' treatment but it does mean it should be a positive and reassuring time for her to bond with her dad.

If Jane is struggling to have her there, maybe partly due to the new baby (a lot of step-mums do struggle with their SC after a new baby, even if they got on with them before), it might be a good idea to ask her dad if he thinks cutting contact somewhat and him spending some one-on-one time with your DD (taking her out for dinner or to an activity, for instance) might relieve the pressure somewhat on both sides and keep the relationship positive for her. Maybe remind him that in a few years she'll be making up her own mind about whether she wants to see him, so he needs to think about how he can keep the relationship strong in the meantime.

I think all the people saying ‘I’d stop sending her’ need to recognise that this is not the OP’s call to make’.

John is Liz’a father. The OP is not - and should not be - dictating and controlling that relationship.

What the OP describes is her trying to do exactly that. Not because she’s some horrible controlling witch or whatever. But, just because it’s driven by maternal love, it doesn’t mean that the dynamic is not good and not what the child needs.

I think that the OP needs to reset the dynamic between her and her ex. Set different and better boundaries about what is communicated between the parents and at handover. How they each deal with their DD’s reports of her time with the other parent too.

The DD is very clearly being shown that mum is the person who decides. Dad needs to report to mum, and may be called upon to verify particular claims or issues mum might feel required further investigation.

None of that is going to help her DD. Her ex should not be reporting on his DD’s behaviour in the way he seems to be. That is just weird. He needs to act like an equal parent. What happens in his house is his stuff to deal with. It’s like he’s telling tales to the teacher about his dd rather than, you know, acting like he’s the bloody parent.

My hypothesis on that one is that he fails to step up in his house too and his wife gets to be the bad guy all the bloody time. It’s really not uncommon for men to scapegoat their wives in this way. and then everyone - man, child, ex - all seem to frame her as the problem, not him.

Your DD would also very much be helped by not reporting it all back to her mum. Changing the narrative around time at dads to focusing on anything but everyone’s good or bad behaviour would help. I’d suggest redirecting her if she is complaining about SM or whatever. Ignore and redirect the conversation to neutral or positive ground. Make it clear that mum is not the higher power who intervenes at dad’s house.

The bullying at school issue is a separate one. Treat it entirely separately. And, if her dad is being useless there, mediation to agree a proper parenting plan would be better.

This is not good advice. It’s sounds all warm and child centred but it completely reinforces the mum is the only real parent here and what she says goes attitude.

It will not help the DD.

He shouldn’t be reporting to you on her behaviour and how he handled it like a childcare worker doing a handover at pickup. That’s not helping. Nor is it helpful to have your DD reporting to you about her dad and her SM.

It's not ideal, in that these situations shouldn't be happening, but if OP shuts down DD telling her about unpleasant situations she has at her dad's, that's an even worse outcome. You'd have this little girl feeling like she has no support from either parent. Then she'd withdraw herself from either and just feel alone, and in terms of any future troubles at school or with her friends, won't feel she can come to either parent either, since her dad responds in this way to her unhappiness at school and her mother (in your recommendation) won't let her talk about unhappiness at her father's.

The main issue isn’t Liz telling her mum, it’s John and OP discussing it at the doorstep within Liz’s earshot. If he has concerns about Liz’s behaviour this should be discussed away from Liz. He’s not the babysitter and OP’s not the Queen of sanctions and parenting decisions.

The only bit that you can change is the bullying at school part.

I find it strange that you have a dynamic where ex reports to you how the weekend went. As someone pointed out this is like a childcare worker/nursery dynamic. You can't change the dynamic at his house - only he can. You are both equal parents but in this situation you've become the more senior parent.

Based on your post I suspect that it's the stepmother doing the parenting rather than dad and this is why things aren't so great. I would wager that your dd would be better behaved if it was just her and dad but you can't make him a better parent. In an ideal situation they would transition to spending a day together instead or something.

Not sending her could make things worse. Dad clearly has no filter and is bound to say something stupid and insensitive after a break and your dd may find it hard to go back to visiting him because the distance between dad and her will have increased. If you go down the road of this break I suspect that she will just end up visiting dad infrequently or not at all. A break won't solve anything if there aren't changes at dad's household and it sounds like he's a mixture of lazy (reliant on his wife to look after his older dd) and in denial.

How long have EX and Jane been together?

I think I'd want a bit more of a read on Jane. Unpalatable as it may be, could you spend some time with her? Otherwise it's really hard to unpick what is going on? I'd expect to have a bit more of an idea if she was really being awful to Liz if I could watch them together a bit...

I dont think you can stop the contact and I think you need to work through it. Things were always going to destabilize a bit with a new baby, new equilibrium needs to be found.

I think I'd want a bit more of a read on Jane. Unpalatable as it may be, could you spend some time with her?

Why would she agree to this?

Exactly.

OP has divorced her ex so what goes on at each house is separate. If she snoops or meddles into what happens at the other house then she will inevitably piss off Jane and worsen problems at their house. OP isn't the boss of her ex and responsible for sorting out what is going on at her ex's house never mind in a position Uk investigate and come up with solutions that they should implement.

You are assuming that John and liz are reliable narrators here.

When, actually, the whole dynamic is screwed and there’s no way of the OP knowing what’s going on.

It is genuinely possible that the dynamic is creating behaviour in Liz that will further drive a dynamic where she gets loads of attention and she feels like she’s doing the right thing/being loyal to her mum by behaving poorly and hating her SM.

creating better boundaries is not emotionally abandoning her DD to an awful situation. Catastrophising on behalf of the DD here is not going to help the OP.

Because she might want to improve the situation too? And it'd also tell me something if she refused.

Totally understand if this isn't something op wants to do tho.

*Because she might want to improve the situation too? And it'd also tell me something if she refused.

Totally understand if this isn't something op wants to do tho.*

Why would it tell you something (presumably negative) if she didn't want to do it, but you'd understand if OP - the person with the stronger motive to want to do it - didn't want to?

And it will probably make things even worse.

Everyone in this situation needs to recognise that John is an equal parent to Liz and that what goes on in his house is his responsibility.

That statement very much includes John too. Because he’s not acting like it’s the case.

The OP can’t control him. But she can tell him that she’s not interested in babysitter style reports of Liz’s poor behaviour at his house. He needs to parent properly.

Well, it would tell me she isn't prepared for a little discomfort to try to improve the relationship.

I'd understand if either doesn't want to, I can't imagine it'd be an amazing party or anything. Just saying it might be worth considering. It's what I would do, but everyone is different.

Maybe she isn’t going to put herself in a situation where the OP acts like her boss conducting capability proceedings?

Frankly, why should she have her husband’s telling her how to live in her own house?

Well, it would tell me she isn't prepared for a little discomfort to try to improve the relationship.

Just seems off that you'd be so keen to emphasise how understandable it was for OP to not want to do this, yet clearly demonstrated less empathy if Jane doesn't want to.

Jane would get nothing out of this. It would just be happening so OP can get a read on whether she thinks she's a nice person or not. It wouldn't improve anything for Jane, might be uncomfortable, and she's got a young baby she will be busy with and is already (from her perspective) dealing with difficult behaviour from Liz. She's got her hands full and is unlikely to want to be further put out. It would be very understandable if she didn't altruistically do this purely for OPs sake.

Sorry OP, but I think its a case of the age old problem. The Step mum has a new child and she no longer wants your daughter around.

It'll play right into her hands if Liz no longer comes around.
The fact that the their child doesn't get along with Liz maybe because the mum doesn't speak about Liz in very a nice way and is acting up based on how the adults in that home are treating her.

Your DD is only nine, she is only a chid herself.
John is a weak disgusting insensitive prick! No one is looking out for your DD at that house. It would break my heart to have to send her there. She's obviously acting up because she feels so unwanted there.

If you don't do something about it she will carry that trauma for life.

Let’s face it, it’s obvious that Jane already experiences discomfort here.

Even the partial reports indicate that Liz clearly demonstrates that she dislikes her and John is pretty useless. Calling in ‘the boss’ is hardly going to help.

@FfoxRedN
Thank you takes a bow and withdraws from thread before anyone tells me I’m talking bollocks again 😂