Father needs single mothers perspective

[dad35workingaway]

Hi,

First post on mumsnet, really think I could do with some advice from a female (mother) perspective.

My partner and I have just split. We had been together nearly 8 years. We have 2 girls aged 2 and 3. I've been working away (350 miles) for the last 7 months. I work the shift pattern 12 days on 2 days off, and then 11 days on 3 days off. Every time it's a weekend off I have been travelling home to see my partner and girls.

I earn roughly 58k per year. Upon taking this job our relationship was fragile at that time. My partner is a great mum, she works 3 days per week in a job that pays £1600 per month (net) has additional income from musical talents and receives some help from the government towards childcare.

The financial agreement before leaving home to work away was I would pay £700 per month towards the home. Although I have a decent income, my partner solely owns the house, has a decent car and a very secure job. I have a cheap car, a credit rating that doesn't allow me to get on to the property market at the moment, but at least now a secure job. Apart from this I have nothing else but my monthly pay check. I take around £4800 per month (net). Im also due a pay rise within the next 3 months which will take my monthly net to around £6000.

Owing to the relationship being rocky when I left and both of us holding very different asset values, we agreed the £700 figure with the aim everything for my girls being covered and anything else left over to go towards the household and make ends meet. She didn't want to get married so I was protecting my new found income with the aim of saving and getting on the property ladder and knew that she would be financially okay in her current financial situation.

A few months after I had left for work, my partner started complaining that what I was giving her was too low. After discussion, I upped this to £1000 per month. I was genuinely happy to pay this... as we were together, building a future and thought the additional money would help out with household bills etc. my partner also has roughly £5k in her account.

Since the split (very recent)... things have become quite sour between us. Maybe it's because I'm bitter about the separation (I didn't want it to happen), I feel happily obligated to provide money for my daughters, but not so happy to pay for additional things for the household. Money has not yet been raised but it will be next on the list.

With my salary I get a non taxable allowance. It's roughly £16k per year. This is to cover my accommodation/food. I have been in touch with cms/csa and they have told me that any child maintenance claim made, this money cannot be factored into the maintenance agreement because it's legally considered 'non taxable' and for some reason can't be factored in.
Taking this into account, my taxable salary is lower.

Plugging numbers in the gov calculator. It states I should pay around £650 per month. I'm trying to find a fair middle ground and would like to offer more than this but reduce the payments slightly from what I was previously giving (£1000). Do you think would £800 per month would be substantial and fair, as I think this will cover everything my girls require with them being so young and is more generous that the minimum the government require... I'm just worried she will take the £200 drop badly and things will spiral out of control in our communication.

My girls are the most important factor in all of this but I would rather save the additional £200 to do nice things with them as their father or bank the money in savings for them later on in life. I don't really want to be paying for my ex's new single lifestyle.

What I want to know is am I being unfair in dropping the payments now we are separated. Is the amount a fair amount to pay my ex and is it okay for me to pay for just my children but not additionally to the house they live in when I myself don't live there anymore. I also know the pay rise should mean I pay more but based on principle I don't really want to fund her lifestyle, only what is required for my children to be secure.

I want to be fair but I also feel I need to be firm. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

As a single parent of two kids for the last 6 years I can promise you that there's no such thing as a "single lifestyle" when you have small children whom you are the sole carer for. Especially if working as well. Every waking minute is spent cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, taking them to clubs and activities. I miss every after work function, every girls night. There is absolutely no room in my life for drafting in a replacement dad. So I think YABU in thinking that she's swanning about pissing your money up a wall.

However I recognise that actually your ex is financially doing OK (as am i), she owns her own home and has a decent p/t wage. I'm sure she'll be entitled to some benefit top up as well. So I don't think it's unreasonable for you to try and save some of your own money to get yourself on the property ladder and reach a point where you can provide a stable second home for your children.

I would discuss this with her and talk about the budget and what lifestyle you both want for the children. Childcare costs are massive, things like decent shoes and outdoor gear costs money. Birthday parties. Taking DC out for new experiences and educational activities is also important imo. It's not just about scraping by on the bare minimum.

Like others have said, your reference to a ‘single lifestyle’ is pretty offensive.

As sole carer and single mum of 2 children of similar young ages, my life is one relentless slog of paid work or unpaid care work. It is hard going. And let’s not forget career limiting.

I agree with @Jadviga‘s approach. If your ex can keep a tab of the actual costs - then you share these actual costs, having regard to a fair percentage compared to your respective salaries, that is a good starting point.

child maintenance is broken and immoral and leaves too many women destitute.

Credit to you for approaching other women about what might be fair in the circumstances. More credit if you take steps to implement it.

I’m a single parent and the thing which I find hardest financially is that my career is quite limited.

I can’t take any job with evenings or weekends, even occasional ones, because I can’t get childcare. I can’t take any job with more than a 40minute commute because the earliest that childcare starts is 8 and the latest it finishes is 6. I can’t stay late for big projects or after work drinks or the bosses birthday- all the things which build relationships towards promotion. Childcare is expensive so I have to use all my holiday for school holidays- I can’t take time off for training courses or development. My children are young enough that having me drop to school and pickup sometimes is important, and they need me to have some free time to look after the house, life admin etc so I can’t work full time.

That is by far and away the biggest cost to me although I also have a lot of other costs which my ex doesn’t have. I run a bigger house with bigger bills, buy school uniform, pay for childcare, pay for school dinners, have more days to feed them, clothe them and care for them. I pay for all the incidentals - birthday presents for friends, prescriptions from the chemist, a pound for Red Nose Day, cakes to take to a play date, shampoo and conditioner, games on their tablets, pocket money etc etc etc.

My ex has the children every other weekend from sat morning to sun night plus 4 weeks a year holiday- he won’t do more because he doesn’t want to have responsibility for them when he’s working. He pays cms amount plus haircuts and school shoes and nice days out with him. He thinks that he is a loving, involved dad. He is wrong. My 7 year old knows he’s wrong, my 5 year old treats him like a fun uncle.

Your post is interesting because it focuses very much on money - you’re asking is x or y amount fair. But what I think your children would be focused on time, involvement, engagement. And as you’ve realised from your responses to people suggesting changing job, that’s what’s expensive.

The childcare for the children will cost more than £700 alone.

Look at it this way OP. How much would it cost you to pay for childcare for 3 children for all the hours you work? You can only work these hours and earn your 6k because your ex is raising your children for you.
1k is a bargain!

@AuntMarch

We assumed that ds used half of the electricity and water. Of that half ex pays half, so he pays 25% of my water and electricity bills. This arrangement has carried on for years. DS is now 15.

Me and ex both work, we both have mortgages and pensions. We divide costs equally. In the early days I did all the work (ex did about 20 nights a year, his choice). Now ds is older he choses to live with me and spend 20 nights a year at his dad's. What was hard at the beginning is now an advantage. 🙂

I think you can afford £1000, it's just over 1/5 of your take home and you should carry on paying £1000. What she earns isn't relevant and will by definition be limited because she's caring for the kids full time.
I'm saying this as a single mum who NEVER got maintenance by the way!

As long as you care for our children 50% of the time so your ex has equal opportunity to work then i don't see a problem with just paying 50% of their costs. If the situation continues as it is then you need to pay more than that. Your ex has provided them and you with a free home all this time and is still providing you with free childcare while she can only work part time due to you being away earning lots of money, why should she supplement your lifestyle any more?

You talk about her having them four days a week she works part time she still needs to get up and parent she has them 7 days a week not four work isn't a break it isn't a party

You earn £4800 per month net, yet the CMS calculator says you only have to pay £700 for both Dc? Bloody hell.

And your ex is doing ALL the heavy lifting of looking after your dc 24/7, as well as jobs, running the house, etc. don't underestimate that.

But we don’t know what their lifestyle is like.

it really isn’t a race to the bottom. You might get £5 a week because your ex is a dick but it doesn’t mean that all ex’s should behave like that. We should aim for the best solution possible.

my ex paid a lot more than the CM. And you know what I’m grateful to him and that puts us all in a much better amiable situation with raising the kids. It meant that I didn’t spend 100% of my income on the kids, it enabled me to have a night away with friends, it enabled me to join a running club etc etc. That made me feel better too. We are nearly at the end of CM and my kids have a great respectful relationship with their dad. They know that their dad helped to enable them to learn to climb, attend scouts, learn to play tennis, have birthday parties, go on school trips etc etc.

The best thing for your DC is happy healthy parents who get a break from parenting so they can refresh, do fun things with their DC and enjoy life.

You say your ex is a great mum and I’m guessing part of that is that she puts the DC first and wants to give them everything she can. Keep trusting her to do that. Dont quibble over money that you can easily afford.

When your DC are older, they will be very aware of what each parent did to support them in their childhood.

Not true. When you live with your children, you pay your house, your council tax, your utilities, your food, and then you pay for the children. Your own costs are the biggest chuck of your expenses. You don't spend most of your income on your children. This is a false narrative from MN to make appear single parents as martyrs.

Honestly your ex might be better off as a single parent financially as she can get help from UC with child care costs. Offer the £800 if that’s what you really want.

Nonsense
Ive been paying rent/mortgage for homes that are big enough to provide a bedroom, garden and play space for a kid all by myself instead of renting a room which I could have done as a single person for less than half the total housing costs. Council tax and utilities are more expensive because I have a kid. I could live closer to work if I didn't have a kid and bike to work but as things stand I have to have a car. There are so many extra life costs that go with having a child.

My childcare is more than my rent and council tax combined

I think you have just proved my point, you pay for your accommodation ( which includes your children's accommodation)

council tax, insurance and utilities are all part of that

Accommodation ( including your children's accommodation) transport, and food (including your children's food)

Anything left over is for raising children, sports, camping trips, hobbies, music, internet, childcare, uniforms, etc

AS a single parent, ALL my money went on providing for my children. ALL of it. Including my own food, which I count as my children's needs, due to then needing a living Mum not a starved to death Mum. But I certainly had to cut down on the number of meals I could expect in a week.

As a non resident parent, it is slightly different, because maybe your children are not staying with you, but still your accommodation , your food, your transport, and everything else to your children

The bar is so low for men

Imagine if the mother of your children was offered a high paying job that meant she wasn't there 24/7 to parent your children.

How much would it cost you to hire a team of 24/7 nannies to raise your children while you were both working?

Now consider paying half that cost every month.

You can only work where you are and earn what you do because the mother of your children prioritises them.

You are a high earner. Be generous.

One day your children will know everything that is happening now. Make sure it's something you are proud of.

This "removed from the relationship " victimhood thinking is not helping you.

Surely you would not want to force anyone to be in a relationship with you if they don't want to be in a relationship with you?

To be honest, as much as you’re playing the wounded party now, your relationship was on the rocks before you took the job working away (the one where you travelled back for two days at most every couple of weeks, should your time off happen to fall on a weekend..), it’s not any surprise it ended after you left. That’s quite often what seems to happen if one parent opts out of family life altogether. I’m glad you see that quibbling over the amount you pay for your childrens living expenses is a crappy thing to do, and that you’ve rethought your stance on that. You’re earning very well and you were only able to take that job in the first place because your ex took up the slack at home.
I’m sorry you’re unhappy at your relationship ending, it’s never easy. Hopefully, with time, you can all adjust to these changes and be happier in the long run for it. I hope your children never catch wind of this resentment from you regarding your financial responsibility, your relationship with them will be infinitely better long term if you show willing to always do right by them without letting your dislike of their mother, whom they love very much, cloud your judgment.

I think you need to view her being at home 4 days a week as something you need to contribute towards in the same way as childcare - you're only able to work because she's doing this.

If you're taking home £6000 a month and not paying for accommodation/food it's hard to understand how you could need all that money and not have loads left, it's harder to sympathise when you are in such a privileged position, though I do generally have more sympathy than posters on here by people who are crippled by paying maintenance and expected to pay the same bills in two households.

Perhaps you and your ex would benefit from sitting down and discussing costs more specifically so you know what the money is for, but you need to include the days she's at home with them unable to work in that, not just the days she's paying for childcare.

If you were providing equal care you wouldn’t have to pay maintenance. You’re not, you have the freedom to maximise your earning potential. Imagine how your life would change if the children were suddenly your responsibility. You have to take them to all their clubs, childcare, parties, health appointments. You have to be on call for when they’re unwell. You take all the emotional baggage with sorting their lives out and bringing them up. Imagine how much it would cost if you paid someone to take that responsibility. You’ve opted out so that you can get a better job, you’ve left the childcare up to your partner. I wouldn’t quibble too much over money. Either adjust your lifestyle so that you can provide care to
your children or be prepared to support them financially because due to someone else taking over your responsibility you’re able to earn more

OP, you've had a bit of a pasting on here. I think it was very sensible to come on here and stress test whether you were reasonable.

I think people have been hard on you because there is an implicit lack of recognition of your partner in this - if she is bearing so much of the load, don't you want her to be comfortable, rather than surviving?

I think the wronged party stuff is also pretty immature. Reading between the lines, it sounds as if your ex has maybe taken on a lot of the burden of household and children and you have been off the hook by earning more. That attitude does get people's backs up here, because men do tend to lack appreciation for their partners' financial and non financial contribution.

I do think that ideally your payments need to be set at a level that allows you to save and have a good standard of living for your kids' sake, but in your shoes I wouldn't begrudge the woman who is raising your kids a bit of financial leeway. Leave the emotions about moving another man in - if your ex is a good mum, she won't be moving strange men into the house, it is ironically probably something she is saying to try to get you to pay more (ie because you'd like to avoid this possibility). Stop antagonising one another and talk about what is best for your kids, with a proper budget.

@dad35workingaway what is all this 'she hasn't moved anyone else in yet...' crap.
And she cares for them 4 days per week which is her choice? She cares for them 7 days a week 24/7. They are tiny and need constant supervision and no doubt wake up throughout the night too needing care.
you are obviously bitter about the split but also obviously have absolutely no idea about your ex's life.
And you've given her no choice as you work away all the time. Which by the way was your choice and is still your choice.You say youre doing this for your kids but are quibbling about a few hundred quid which wouldnt even cover childcare costs.
You say you came on here to ask about what to do. You are getting your replies but dont like them.