Father needs single mothers perspective

[dad35workingaway]

Hi,

First post on mumsnet, really think I could do with some advice from a female (mother) perspective.

My partner and I have just split. We had been together nearly 8 years. We have 2 girls aged 2 and 3. I've been working away (350 miles) for the last 7 months. I work the shift pattern 12 days on 2 days off, and then 11 days on 3 days off. Every time it's a weekend off I have been travelling home to see my partner and girls.

I earn roughly 58k per year. Upon taking this job our relationship was fragile at that time. My partner is a great mum, she works 3 days per week in a job that pays £1600 per month (net) has additional income from musical talents and receives some help from the government towards childcare.

The financial agreement before leaving home to work away was I would pay £700 per month towards the home. Although I have a decent income, my partner solely owns the house, has a decent car and a very secure job. I have a cheap car, a credit rating that doesn't allow me to get on to the property market at the moment, but at least now a secure job. Apart from this I have nothing else but my monthly pay check. I take around £4800 per month (net). Im also due a pay rise within the next 3 months which will take my monthly net to around £6000.

Owing to the relationship being rocky when I left and both of us holding very different asset values, we agreed the £700 figure with the aim everything for my girls being covered and anything else left over to go towards the household and make ends meet. She didn't want to get married so I was protecting my new found income with the aim of saving and getting on the property ladder and knew that she would be financially okay in her current financial situation.

A few months after I had left for work, my partner started complaining that what I was giving her was too low. After discussion, I upped this to £1000 per month. I was genuinely happy to pay this... as we were together, building a future and thought the additional money would help out with household bills etc. my partner also has roughly £5k in her account.

Since the split (very recent)... things have become quite sour between us. Maybe it's because I'm bitter about the separation (I didn't want it to happen), I feel happily obligated to provide money for my daughters, but not so happy to pay for additional things for the household. Money has not yet been raised but it will be next on the list.

With my salary I get a non taxable allowance. It's roughly £16k per year. This is to cover my accommodation/food. I have been in touch with cms/csa and they have told me that any child maintenance claim made, this money cannot be factored into the maintenance agreement because it's legally considered 'non taxable' and for some reason can't be factored in.
Taking this into account, my taxable salary is lower.

Plugging numbers in the gov calculator. It states I should pay around £650 per month. I'm trying to find a fair middle ground and would like to offer more than this but reduce the payments slightly from what I was previously giving (£1000). Do you think would £800 per month would be substantial and fair, as I think this will cover everything my girls require with them being so young and is more generous that the minimum the government require... I'm just worried she will take the £200 drop badly and things will spiral out of control in our communication.

My girls are the most important factor in all of this but I would rather save the additional £200 to do nice things with them as their father or bank the money in savings for them later on in life. I don't really want to be paying for my ex's new single lifestyle.

What I want to know is am I being unfair in dropping the payments now we are separated. Is the amount a fair amount to pay my ex and is it okay for me to pay for just my children but not additionally to the house they live in when I myself don't live there anymore. I also know the pay rise should mean I pay more but based on principle I don't really want to fund her lifestyle, only what is required for my children to be secure.

I want to be fair but I also feel I need to be firm. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

My ex has a really strong support network where she currently lives. And I know she is really happy in the community. So I know the move would have been a big scary upheaval for her.

Also, whilst of course money matters, most children would rather have time with a parent and less money (as long as there is enough for all needs to be met plus some ‘extras’), than more money but not getting to actually be with that parent. Consider the effect on them of you not being around, emotionally I mean. Read up on things like attachment theory. My daughter’s father only saw her fortnightly because of work till she was 4, and it had a definite negative effect on her.

.. but I'm making the choice to ensure they don't have to struggle financially

But you are ducking and diving here.
Do you genuinely believe that the CMS calculated amount is fair?

In that case she is unlikely to move I’m afraid.

No I don't think it's fair. It seemed low.
That's why I offered to pay more. But I guess me suggesting I reduce the payment (£200) as I did in op was a bad judgment call mainly driven by my jealousy of the separation situation. For now I will leave the current setup in place and not try to reduce anything.

It was a completely different situation - it was a step mom essentially asking if she should contribute to her partner's CM payment (as he had no extra money to put towards that). Also different because the reason her partner had no money left to pay towards increased CM was that he was paying for joint debt incurred while he was with his ex (which ex couldn't /wouldn't pay for).

That's not at all comparable to a man paying for his own children.

Posters on the other thread were saying the man shouldn't pay more, because he can't afford to, and OP shouldn't pay because they're not her kids. If the man had any left over money responses would have been different.

Surely people can see the difference ?

I don't want to be a dad that doesn't support his children financially and a dad that's absent. That's why I came on here for advice. Because having advice from women that are living/lived these challenges is the best way to get a balanced view

A lot of these is should have could have would have.

The relationship didn't work out. It really doesn't matter to your kids why.

A savings account in the future means very little to a child that is living a diminished lifestyle now. It just feels like bribery.

As a minimum you can pay what the CMC says is fair. If you want to be in anyway fair you don't disregard any non taxable allowance

If you really want to be fair you both take into account all income and all costs (including pension contributions) and divide the lot so both of you take home an even amount of left over funds. But if you could do that you would probably still be together.

Thing to remember is regardless of the reason why you originally took the job, you are only able to continue to pursue that job because someone is doing the daily grind of being there and looking after your children.

That may not in your brain have monetary value, but that will have infinite value to your kids. Ultimately, as others have said,you will be answerable to them and they do notice. Therefore it's not necessarily a case of what's fair or what's not, it's what you can justify to them.

Good call. However much it hurts, you need to avoid acting out of pain. Slowly building a good Co-parenting relationship with your ex will benefit all of you so much, especially the children. I know it’s hard, been there and got the T shirt, but it really is important for your children’s sake. And unfortunately money comes to symbolise so much, and can be a way to exert punishment or control.

I know MN is obsessed with children not sharing but realistically a 7 and 5 year old could share for quite a while longer. I shared with my brother until I was 14 and nobody died... (and I only stopped sharing because he left the home, otherwise would have kept sharing).

You are able to earn more because she is raising your children almost alone. If you want everything to be fair then leave your job and take them 50/50.

if you are concerned that going 50/50 will mean a drop in your income, then you will need to honestly acknowledge that her sacrifice of her own income to care for them facilitates your higher one. And of course she may well have agreed to that when you were together, as partners, but now you are separating and you are making decisions that no longer necessarily consider her interests as well as your own- so she also has every right to do the same.

Maybe that will involve working full time to make ends meet, or moving in quickly with a new partner to reduce bills. Either way, the amount you contribute to the cost of raising the children you barely see should not be determined by how you feel about how she lives her life

Regardless of when you started your new job, the plans you made for a future with your family etc, none of that is relevant anymore. I think you're failing to accept that the relationship is over and you are now, to all intents and purposes, a single man with two young children who he hardly gets time off work to go visit. What was it? 12 days on, 2 off then 11 days and 3 days off, which is when you might bothrr ro see your kids - once or twice a month. This largely makes you an absent father. Your ex has DC 24/7 and effectively has sole care of them and all their physical, practical, emotional and financial needs. And you really think you're being fair with £800 when you can offer no practical, hands on support at all?
I hope your ex does meet the man of her dreams and they live a long, loving, financially secure life together with your DC being provided and cared for in the way their real dad should be willing to do.

I should sleep now. 4am start. But thank you for the responses, however difficult some may be to get my head around...or agree with.

It's still early days but reading through I do think, once emotion is removed from the equation.. both parents involved should have a level of quality and an arrangement that is suitable for both parties involved. I get to travel home and see my girls tomorrow night. Can't wait

@MintJulia
How did you work out, re utilities? A certain % of the bill?

Just because I'd be interested/horrified to work out what mine actually costs me. Because we eat the same meals and sit in the same heated living room I'd not considered the energy bills.

I'm seeing a lot of comments about childcare fees but won't the 3 year old be funded for 30 hours if mum is working 3 days, and the 2 year old for 15 hours if mum is on 16k? I know that's only term time but will make it a lot less than people are assuming and make £800 sound very reasonable.

(I earn little enough that we got 2 year funding but also work enough hours that we get 30hr funding now at 3 so both are definitely possible)

Kanaloa from my perspective I got £5 a week for ds & had to feed, clothe, pay for school uniform, shoes & pay for everything at home like rent, bills etc. But because my ex was on benefits that was all I got even though he was getting £350 a week & if he had been earning that much I would have got nearly £50 a week. Some weeks after paying out everything I only had £50 left to feed us, buy petrol & give ds money for school. As you can imagine to me £800 a month looks like paradise. If he pays her £800 a month & then agrees to pay half towards things like school stuff, uniforms, shoes etc she is getting not too bad a deal, my ex didn't care if we were starving or homeless as long as he had enough to do what he wanted.

Ok well I got nothing and had to flee from the dad of my older kids. You should have been grateful to get £5 per week! Many people would love £5 per week.

Just because you ended up being cheated by super scum doesn’t mean other people should be licking the boots of bare minimum and thinking a man who earns £6k a week is ‘generous’ for offering to pay half of his children’s school uniform and shoes.

And like your ex who gave £5 still had less disposable income left than this op. So how do you work out that the op is generous?

You are making a choice to work away and not be present for your children to earn more money.

What would happen if your ex did the same? If she was offered a job earning similar amounts but had to work away from home for the same period? Could she accept that job? What would happen if your ex became ill or could no longer care for the children, could you still do your job?

Her being present to care for your shared children, to pick up your share of the responsibility, allows you to go and earn that money.

The amounts almost don't matter but it seems very petty to make a fuss over a couple of % of your income if that, given that she has and continues to enable you to earn that by picking up more than her share of parenting.

You moved for your job limiting your ex's job, but you know that already. Go for 50/50 so it's fair for all, you are shirking your responsibility's you are vile.

It's not a race to the bottom though.

My EXDP wanted to pay me £300 for 2 DC, when he earns £60k per year, so I took him to CMS. They awarded £610 per month.

At the time, my childcare bill for DC2 was £800-900 per month, which I asked EXDP for half of. Every time he paid half the childcare invoice, he ran back to CMS to say he'd paid me extra, so they should reduce his monthly payment. This meant after factoring in his share of childcare, I had £100-200 from him for everything else for 2 DC that month.

Like this OP, my EXDP thought, and still thinks he's Dad of the year, by seeing his DC for 4 days per month, when the reality is that it's entirely his choice.

If you want to reduce to £800 suggest that, but then also pay 50% childcare cost on top. You'll soon see how the costs mount up, and aren't going towards finding her single lifestyle 🙄🙄🙄

*funding her single lifestyle

I would make it a conversation. Say this is what cms it's obviously a lot lower what do you think? Then look at child costs together. If you split you shouldn't be paying bills unless it's spousal which is up to you. If she meets someone they should contribute to bills but shouldn't be paying for your children, that's yours and your ex's responsibility.

Just remember she is responsible for those kids, and you are going to get to be the fun parent a tiny portion of the time. She is doing all the hard work and raising your children. Sleepless nights, cleaning up vomit, getting them out the door on time. And this is all while you do what exactly? And you are worried you might give her a little bit extra??? You should be buying her spa vouchers ffs.

The thing is, you have a massive income, and your children should be your top priority, financially, and in other ways.

So don't think along the lines of "how much should I be paying towards my children's care" but " how much should I be withholding from my children's care"

Work out what you need for transport, accommodation and food, and the rest goes to your children, which is what all parents basically do