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Original poster

Flying with a baby without permission from father (ex partner) - any way this can happen?

113 replies

beautyisfoundwithin · 02/07/2022 18:13

Does anyone know the rules/have experience regarding travelling abroad with a baby who has a different surname to you, without a letter of permission from the father?

Trying to explain a long story in the shortest way possible, my sister (with her baby) has very recently escaped from an abusive relationship - not physical as far as I'm aware but I'm not sure as I think she may not be ready to admit it if that is the case, but definitely emotionally abusive and very controlling. I'm so proud of her for having the strength to leave him.

However she has really nowhere to go, she's currently staying on the sofa at a friend's house until she can get housing etc. sorted out. I would love for her and my nephew to come and stay with me for a little while as I have a bit more room and obviously would like to give her some support but I don’t live in the UK (I’m in Germany). There is no way the ex will give permission for her to take the baby abroad (although he has made it clear he wants nothing to do with his son, not even interested in seeing him ever again).

Does anyone know if there’s ANY way my sister could travel to me with her son in this situation?

OP posts:
MintJulia · 02/07/2022 19:49

@daretodenim

From the govt web site.... No mention at all of a copy of other parent's ID/passport

A letter from the person with parental responsibility for the child is usually enough to show you’ve got permission to take them abroad.

You might be asked for the letter at a UK or foreign border, or if there’s a dispute about taking a child abroad. The letter should include the other person’s contact details and details about the trip.
It also helps if you’ve:
evidence of your relationship with the child, eg a birth or adoption certificate
a divorce or marriage certificate, if you are a single parent but your family name is different from the child’s

rummynose · 02/07/2022 19:51

I thought if it was a letter it needed to be notarised(sp) so it's official. This means no copy of the other parents ID needed and not just anyone could have signed it.

That saying only going on what my friend said had happened to her in the US so maybe different in EU/other countries. Before that she had travelled to many other countries as a single mum with her DC and had never been asked.

Ducksurprise · 02/07/2022 19:51

The gate is short hand for being able to leave the country/enter another.

To the pp that has done nine, you have still been asked once, as above the vast majority of trips we make I'm not asked especially in Europe. But if you do get asked you will be bloody grateful you have everything possible to prove it is allowed.

I have seen families be unable to leave a country as they can't prove the child is allowed to leave. As I said it doesn't make any difference to me, I just share because someone on here many years ago shared it with me. I thought it was overkill until I got stopped.

If you can't get proof then yes I'd risk it, but if you can be amicable then it could save a lot of bother.

Hermione101 · 02/07/2022 19:55

You can take the child for a month without permission. I would be very careful to not extend that. Germany is part of that Hague Convention and it can be seen as abduction after the month.

I often travel back to my home country with child who has a different name and always with a letter from my partner. They’ve asked a few times to see the letter at border control in my home country, never been questioned about anything in the U.K. She’ll need to travel with the birth certificate

Maybee21 · 02/07/2022 19:57

I would tell your sister to get babys birth certificate so she can prove she is babys mother if needed, and babys passport and get on the plane to stay with you.

She and her ex both have equal parental responsibility and under these circumstances neither of them need permission from the other to take the child out of the country.

SurpriseSurprise · 02/07/2022 19:59

Did she go to the police? If so she can show the crime reference number and quote it is domestic abuse related and they have a duty of care then for her

Anoooshka · 02/07/2022 20:00

I've only ever been asked for a letter when entering the UK from the USA, and when leaving Germany for the UK. DS has a different surname to me, but we look very alike (both white with fair hair and blue eyes).

Once we turned up at the airport in Germany without a letter. DS was 9 years old at the time (so about 5 years ago). The German immigration officer would not let us through to the gate, and I couldn't contact DH. Luckily, I found an official ID card in my purse that showed DH's name and my name, so that I could prove that DS was related to me.

I always get 20 questions at Heathrow immigration, but I have an Eastern European last name, whereas DS doesn't. I wonder if this is the problem? My passport states that I was born in the UK.

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 20:01

Ducksurprise · Today 19:51
The gate is short hand for being able to leave the country/enter another.

where have you seen this happen? you stated in previous pp that you'd seen this happen

I've seen parents turned away at the gate because they don't have proof

so where did you see this happen, who stopped the adult taking the child?

C152 · 02/07/2022 20:03

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/07/2022 18:36

I'm a SM and I have never been asked to produce a letter at airports.

I have; multiple times. And the child's full birth certificate and our marriage certificate.

OP, here's a link to UK info; you should check the rules in Germany as well:

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 20:05

marriage certificate.

what happens if you don't have a marriage certificate?

C152 · 02/07/2022 20:10

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 20:05

marriage certificate.

what happens if you don't have a marriage certificate?

I don't know. I presume they use the marriage certificate to check how I am related to a person with a different name. (My son has my ex's surname. His surname is obviously on our marriage certificate, so they can see the link between my son's surname and me.)

strandedabroad · 02/07/2022 20:11

I've flown with 3 DC on my own many times and have never been asked. I have a foreign accent, they don't.

In this situation I'd tell your sister to try.

Mariposista · 02/07/2022 20:23

Not sure about Germany but IME Spain are very strict with this. Get your sister to seek some proper legal advice before attempting it. Ultimately she will need to be granted sole custody to not have to produce a letter each time.

LimeJellyforBrains · 02/07/2022 20:25

Slightly different circumstances, but just to show that people can and do get stopped:

My exH was taking our 2 sons to visit his family in Ireland. He was stopped at the ferry terminal going there. Our sons have his surname, I kept my maiden name on marriage, so it's different to theirs. He had my permission for the holiday, but not in writing. I was very surprised to get a phone call from the Border Police asking me to confirm that he had my permission to take them out of the country. I can only assume this was just because they were travelling without an obvious 'mother'. Sons were quite upset about the stopping and questioning.

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 20:47

I can only assume this was just because they were travelling without an obvious 'mother'

this is what I had always assumed with my daughters travelling with their grandfather alone - but they never where stopped

they travelled with their father to Spain and I certainly didn't object but never gave a letter and they weren't stopped

Op if your sister has a return ticket and has the baby birth certificate and passport then the ticket isn't for more than 28 days, I'd risk travelling

by the sounds of it the ex will not know where she is anyway, so just tell her not to tell people she is going abroad if it will cause him to start trouble

daretodenim · 02/07/2022 20:53

People seem to be focussing on the U.K. but there's another country involved. Plus OP says she's going back so that means she has another two to deal with. The problem, to be clear, is with passport control.

Germany, Italy, Spain and The Netherlands can be strict about it. If you haven't been asked that's great. I guess it's like going through security: they have random checks and some people never get checked. Others get picked genuinely randomly frequently. Others stick out for some reason. But just because it's never happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I mean, most people don't need hospital treatment on holiday but they will still take travel insurance out for a week's break abroad. It's about what this woman is risking by just trying to leave. Where I am I know of a mother who lost custody for "going home" with her three kids. It's not an urban myth, it's someone in my network. Therefore before this already vulnerable woman puts herself in a position where she's potentially at the mercy of her abusive ex, she should get legal advice before she does anything. If the legal advice includes going abroad without notifying/getting permission from abusive ex, then she should.

Risking everything on the advice of people who essentially don't think border control officers do anything other than scan passports for no reason in airports because they've never had a problem is verging on insane.

SpringHasSprungGrassIsRiz · 02/07/2022 21:10

She will be fine going, but may get some hassle on the way back to the UK.

Dh was coming back to the UK from the Netherlands when he was taken to a separate office with our eldest, who was 2 at the time.

Despite having the same surnames, they wanted to know if he had my permission! They called me and I missed the call as I was in a meeting.

The grilled him on our living arrangements, daughters routine, then actually called her nursery (searched and found the number online)and the manager confirmed she attended and was expected in the next day.

Only after an hour was he allowed to travel.

Since then we travel with appropriate letter, normally I copy my passport and write all the details of the trip and my contact details underneath.

We only ever get asked on returning to the uk, never outbound, but its asked for more often than not.

GettingItOutThere · 02/07/2022 21:28

can i just add (only read the first page!) how long is she planning to stay with you?

my understanding is over 28 days may be classed as kidnap? she needs to be careful this father does not suddenly get pissed off and report her for taking his child.

get a CAO to avoid all that shit if shes going over 28 days. if not - crack on quite frankly and don't poke the bear!

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 22:05

verwaltung.bund.de/leistungsverzeichnis/EN/rechte-und-pflichten/102711702

how anyone at the boarder would know who it was that had written the letter or who the person not he phone is??

but op if you can speak German perhaps get a letter drawn up and send to your sister to use and then she has the paperwork requested if needed.

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 22:11

Think about this

I used to give my dad a letter in both French and English, it just explained he was their grandfather and bringing them home to the uk. and giving permission for any medical treatment if the case arose (thus it was in French) I guess if he had been stopped - should he have been also asked for a letter from their other parent? Or would one letter from one parent be sufficient? How does that work when its not a parent but a grandparent

but if it was me the mother travelling Id need a letter from the father/other parent

ivykaty44 · 02/07/2022 22:15

I think what Im getting at is

if OP travelled to the UK and then went back to Germany with the baby of her sister - all would be fine as she could get a letter from the mother to allow this...

but if the mother travels with the baby she may get stopped and asked for a letter from the father which she can't get

Changemaname1 · 02/07/2022 22:15

Iv never been asked anything about permission at the border and neither has my ex when he’s taken dc both short and long haul

Goawayangryman · 02/07/2022 22:32

She should get a specific issues order. If he is difficult (and it sounds like he is) then this will give her and her child protection.

Or, she can get a notarised letter if he will agree. He might do if the alternative is her contacting the child maintenance service ;)

bumpertobumper · 02/07/2022 22:42

I traveled with my babies and children, different surnames, many many times without their dad. Never asked for any sort of proof of permission.
I know technically you might need permission, but in practice it's generally fine. She should just get in the plane. If questioned at the airport don't tell them she's split from the dad - just say she's going on holiday.

AdriannaP · 02/07/2022 22:44

I a different surname to my DC (my rare surname is their middle name), I very often get asked for BC and the only place I have been asked for the letter is Germany. I wouldn’t take this lightly and definitely wouldn’t recommend to fake it.