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Original poster

One night stands = baby's

117 replies

krisked · 23/11/2004 16:48

I have just had a very interesting but heated conversation with a friend for college about the plight of fathers for justice/CSA and would like your comments....Sorry if this winds people up but i believe it should be discussed.

The topic was basically "Men should pay ther're way but should it be the same rules for men who have one night stands or are tricked" whatever that means ....we all know it takes 2 to tango.

The story started with that recent news release of the boy who said the girl told him she was on the pill and now will have to support the child until 16. Do you think this is right????

OP posts:
somebodyelse · 30/11/2004 17:53

also love to see how you will stop other people telling your son their POV?!!!

Uwila · 30/11/2004 17:53

somebodyelse, uh... no is all I can really say. No no no no no (oh my G I sound like my toddler). The resposibility of conception and it's consequences are equally divded among the two consenting adults.

lockets · 30/11/2004 17:57

This reply has been deleted

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Uwila · 30/11/2004 17:57

Your son? Hell, keep this thread away from your daughters!

somebodyelse · 30/11/2004 18:00

In essence I do agree, it's just tht I feel that I took his choice of how to deal with it away by making my choice first IYSWIM!

Anyway-each to their own, I just think that often a man is expected to pay when in actual fact he had no idea what wa going on (ie accident he didn't know about etc) and gets forced into something, rahter than sitting down ansd sorting it all ourt properly-which Is waht I was lucky enough to have happen for me.

somebodyelse · 30/11/2004 18:05

and I hope my sons and daughters would be as open and honest about it if it happened to them as we were to each other!

spacemonkey · 30/11/2004 18:06

I do think your thinking is muddled here somebodyelse. If it is an accident then both are equally responsible. End of story!

secur · 30/11/2004 18:10

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Uwila · 30/11/2004 18:15

Somebody, you said your ds is nearly 3. Does he know who his father is? Does his father contribute to his upbringing in any way? CLothes? Childcare? Food? Education? Entertainment?

I must say I am gobsmacked at this thread (and I thought I was beyond being this surprised by mumsnet).

secur · 30/11/2004 18:21

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spacemonkey · 30/11/2004 18:25

I agree with you secur. We were all getting heated because we thought you were applying your personal experience as a general rule, which you've made clear you aren't. You're right, if everyone is happy with the situation that is far more important to a child's wellbeing than arguing for the sake of it over money as a matter of principle. I should know, I've never had any child support from my children's father (something I have actually felt really bitter about because, unlike your situation, it wasn't by mutual agreement), but have tolerated the situation because I prefer not to create animosity which would then be damaging to the children. I'm certainly not saying that it is right, or that this is how everyone should do it though!

secur · 30/11/2004 18:35

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caroline9824 · 30/11/2004 23:23

uwila- you're right, i never thought of it in that way. I was worried about challenging him because i thought that it was potentially a bit mean to claim he was lying about cancer- i mean, if it is true then I have nothing but sympathy for his situation- but actually it must be possible that he did have it and isn't infertile- look at all the vasectomies which go wrong, etc. So he might not be lying, just misinformed.
I guess what i have realised is that yes, it is very sad that he had cancer, but i guess it doesn't change the fact that he is her father and for my dds sake, she should know who he is and be acknowledged by him. I think that his reticence might be due to the fact that he genuinely believes that because he had cancer she can't be his (if that makes sense?)and if it were confirmed by a dna test it might be a catalyst for him to WANT to be involved?

surfermum · 01/12/2004 00:21

This is an interesting thread. What are your views on my dh's situation. He was in a long-term, live-in relationship. She asked him if they could have a baby and he didn't want one. So she stopped taking the pill without telling him, and they had my dsd. 2 years later she asked him to leave, moved someone else in then promptly refused dh any contact with his daughter. Her opinion was "you don't need Dads", and did her best to try and stop him ever seeing his dd again ... but she wanted as much money from dh as she could get her hands on.

caroline9824 · 01/12/2004 00:42

Goodness Surfermum, she does sound unreasonable! If she doesn't need dads then surely she doesn't need his money!
I want my dds father to be involved for both her sake and his- i think they will both miss out otherwise. I don't give a flying f* about the money, in fact would rather provide for her myself and not have to be dependent on him for anything.

But if she's taking money off him then surely he shouldn't be denied the right to be involved, unless he was an inappropriate or violent father (which i assume he was not).

caroline9824 · 01/12/2004 00:45

I'm dreading her asking why she doesn't see him TBH- She is talking now so it's only a matter of time before the question comes- i have no idea wghat i can say and i just hope we can sort this damn thing out before that happens!

Uwila · 01/12/2004 08:33

Surfermum, the woman you describe deserves a whole string of four letter words. She is obviously more interested in her selfish desires than what is right for her child (i.e. knowing her father). Your husband has a right to be his child's father, even if it is no longer convenient to her mother.

Loads of sympathy for your DH, and none for his nasty x.

Uwila · 01/12/2004 08:35

Oh Caroline, if it was up to me, I'd ask for this test sooner rather than later. Also, if you know that he is the onloy man you slept with in the month of conception, then I would say you have way more than reasonable cause to ask for this test.

Tough position to be in though. I definitely sympathise.

Caligula · 01/12/2004 09:04

If David Blunket can demand paternity tests, I don't see why you can't, Caroline.

Is it a legal right now, does anyone know?

secur · 01/12/2004 10:16

Message withdrawn

hmb · 01/12/2004 10:19

Regarding the 'It can't be mine because I had cancer' theory. My husband had cancer 11 years ago, treated with surgery and them chaemotherapy. We were warned that it might reduce his fertility, and so froze a sperm sample, but it was never needed and we concieved our two wuite naturaly.

It depends on exactly what treatment he was given, but it isn't sure even then

caroline9824 · 01/12/2004 11:12

thanks for that everyone- i think i will definitely demand a paternity test as it can't hurt. after all, he is in effect accusing me of lying by saying dd isn't his so why shouldn't i!

surfermum · 01/12/2004 13:32

She'd denied 2 fathers before my dh contact with their children too, and one since. She said she refused dh contact because she wanted to make him suffer because he hadn't loved her. She's a fool as he's a brilliant dad and she's done nothing but damage to her child through all her animosity (IMO).

It angered me that she took away his choice about having a baby, then didn't want him involved, but still wanted his money. If she wanted a baby that badly she should have been prepared to support it herself, instead of relying on dh and the tax payers.

However, this is a child we're talking about, not a loan that needs paying off or material things to argue over. It isn't her fault how she came into the world, so as angry as I am at her mother we have to do what's best for the child. It's not an issue now anyway as we do have lots of contact and she's as much a part of the family as dd is, but this thread has made me wonder how I would feel if we weren't seeing her at all.

I find it sad too that her mother found it necessary to tell dsd about her conception, how she tricked him, and that her dad didn't want her. What that has done to her I guess we will only know when she is older and can tell us. I just make it plain to her that when her Daddy first saw her he fell in love with her and he loves her just the same as her little sister.

surfermum · 01/12/2004 13:42

Caroline - you could arm yourself with some info like that from hmb to show him that it's a fact that he could be the father (I know you know he is). It's just as insensitive of him to say it isn't him and imply that you wouldn't know who the father was.

I really feel for you, as it is going to be hard when dd starts asking questions. Let us know how you get on.

saintlysecur · 01/12/2004 13:42

I think that kind of storey is always totally unfair-the fact tht someone did not want a baby means nothing at all to how the feel about the person they are later presented with-that line is only ever used to damage and undermine, in short it is a nasty little trick and it still stuns me that people will use those kind of things on thier own children

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