When your child doesn't want to live between houses

[COS2102]

WWYD?

8 year old boy living between mum and dad's house equally but always making a point of saying that he only wants to live at one of those homes. Both parents aware of this but talking about it a lot at the moment in the household which he wants to live. Saying that the other house is nasty to him about the parent and step-parent, and shouts in his ear when they arent happy with him. Also saying that when he feels like he needs 5 minutes to calm down from a disagreement that he isn't given space to do so. Apparently his parent follows him around the house when he says he needs 5 minutes. He has also been saying things like 'there's nothing for me there' and 'I'm just never happy when I'm there'. This preference over houses has been going on long before lockdown but has potentially been intensified because of lockdown and spending more time with the other parent due to no school.

I haven't disclosed which parent is which as I know that sometimes if I am Mum that I'd get different opinions to if I am Dad and I just really want neutral comments, not biased ones.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Work out new arrangements that your child is happy with. Would your child be happy to visit for days but not sleep over?

I think this is difficult as the child is only 8 and presumably there is an agreement/order in place to share care 50/50. He is too young for his opinion to be taken into account in a court, I would think. Would the other parent be open to having their parenting ways criticised?

A frank and honest discussion between all adult parties involved? There would have to be agreed boundaries about the discussion, and it would need to be emphasised that the child’s happiness and wellbeing was paramount.

Responding to the first reply - I think that just a reduction in days would be all he needs. It isn't that he is at a point where he never wants to see the other parent at all. I think it would be easier for them to get on and for it to almost feel special to him the time that they have if it was two days and one overnight maybe....

In response to the next two posts - the other parent would really not be happy to take any sort of criticism. They will point out, of there own accord, that they are second best and look to myself to sort things out over the phone if things kick off but any suggestion that they may be struggling or could maybe try structuring their school-day the same as at our house then they immediately get defensive and say they dont need told how to parent. It would be nice to be able to sit down and have a Frank chat about what is going on but at present I feel that the other parent is all about fairness between parents and not about the wishes of the child. Just a few weeks ago they queried how it was fair that he spent 4 days here as handover time is 5PM on a sunday and he spends 4 nights at the other house. I had to explain that it has always been that way, on their request, for fairness that one house has four days and the other 4 nights. They weren't interested in the fact that their child always says they dont want to go and they want to stay here longer....just interested in getting fairness for themself

Just to note - I do very much appreciate you taking the time to reply.

This might be something where if I continue to receive similar advise that I need to go against my current judgements and make that frank conversation happen.
I think I'm pleasantly surprised that I haven't been totally shot down and been slated for posting my question.

Thank you

It sounds like minefield! Good luck, it’s very hard sometimes to make an adult look at things from a child’s perspective.

No advice sorry but just want to point out that if the childs parents were tiger and he wasn't happy he wouldn't be able to choose so worth beating that in mind

My parents divorced when I was young, and I can’t imagine how much I’d have hated living between two houses. Partly because my dad wasn’t exactly hands on, and partly the disruption/feeling of rootlessness. I know this is the current way of doing tunings, but it can’t possibly be right for all children in all circumstances. I think that an 8 year old’s wishes should be taken into account - otherwise I can only see that serious unhappiness will follow.

Doing things, not tunings!

Stantons that is true however we arent together and he has the option to feel happy and the unfortunate situation of feeling unhappy. If your child was going to school and their teacher was shouting in their ear, not allowing them to speak to people they cared about and bad mouthing you, as their parent, to them would you leave them at that school? Would you be happy with them going to school to be in that teacher's class every day even though that teacher made them dreadfully unhappy? Or would you be looking for advice on how you can address the teacher and their behaviour or looking for who you talk to about that teacher? Or would you want someone to tell you that you should stop them from going to that school if that is the way the teacher treats them?

Slippery Lizard - for starters, I love your username!
And secondly, I really appreciate your opinion as someone who has grown up with parents who weren't together. I think I do have the concern that his other parent is on a bit of a slope to ruining their own relationship with our son by their controlling nature. I dont want my son to ever feel like he is at a point where he wants absolutely nothing to do with his other parent

Both adults need to discuss a new arrangement. Going from 50/50 to one overnight is a lot though - are there any examples of how the other parent and step parent are nasty? As I wouldn’t allow any contact if someone was nasty to my son not just a reduction? Are they nasty or does your son mean they have more rules and to him that’s ‘nasty’ etc ? The shouting directly into his ear sounds horrendous!

So the house that has a parent and step parent arent the 'nasty' house, they are the house that the child wants to live with and it's the house with just a parent that says nasty things. The shouting in the ear bit is awful, that is something that was found out yesterday and he was told that we disagree with that and we dont think that you should shout in people's ears. The parent was in an altercation with the child over the 'naughty chair' last week and he now has a bruise on his back as a result of being pushed into the chair as he tried to get off. Personally I think he is too old for a naughty chair and it isnt really my parenting technique but that is more personal preference rather than right or wrong I guess. He never actually said the nasty things, just the things he felt were nasty such as being told well your other parent isnt here so it doesn't matter what they say because I'm in charge of you when you are here and telling him that his step parent isnt his parent....something which he has been told is true, they arent his parent but we understand that it upsets him because he views them as one of his parents and he likes that they have the term step parent. He is told that he isnt allowed to ring his parent and step parent when at the other parent's house because 'well you dont ring me when you're there'. He said he had asked to ring when he felt cross so his parent could talk to him and he could calm down but he was told 'they cant help you feel better'. They dont have more rules, just inconsistent. So when he was sent to the naughty chair it was because he was doing school work and got upset, wanted to ring his other parent to feel better and was told no so refused to speak to the parent because he was cross and was sent to the naughty chair and an altercation ensued. On another occasion he was sent to his room because he was laughing at his pet instead of concentrating on his school work. After being sent to his room he was told he had lost his electronics for a month because he was shouting as a result of being sent to his room. At the house in which he wants to be, there are a lot of consistent rules. On a school day he is expected to do all school work, with garden breaks in between, before being allowed on electronic devices. Speaking to people with an attitude or purposefully ignoring people can result in warnings over losing electronics and then in a short term loss of electronics. Rules are based on respect and telling the truth, his behaviour never deteriorates like it does at the other parents house.
In terms of the reduction suggested, it was so that sunday evening to tuesday morning became monday morning to tuesday morning and then wednesday morning to friday morning became halved. Of course it could be worth trying just the halving of the wednesday to friday initially and see if that helped things. He is just so unhappy and with schools etc being shut from covid-19 it is hard to know where to turn to for support for him.

This sounds so difficult. Do you think the other parent would be resistant to a conversation along the lines that they are clearly butting heads a bit at the moment, so maybe a shorter visit would help repair the relationship? Or will they just say there is no problem and they want to keep it 50/50 as they are stuck on being fair/equal.

Also, is this a mutual arrangement or a court ordered arrangement?

It's a mutual arrangement. School noticed some problems when 4 years old so arranged for both parents to attend mediation and this was one of the decisions to come out of that, for fairness. In the past, the child has came to live full time with us as his other parent has said they have had enough of him always saying that he doesn't want to be there. This happened a few years back and happened on two occasions but both occasions lasted less than two weeks and the other parent changed their mind and demanded all of their time back.
They are very stuck on being fair and equal and hate being told what to do... 'you and your perfect life' is often a comment if they feel that too much help is being given to them. It almost feels like we are stuck. As though, unless there started being some physical abuse and all contact would be needed to stop then there is nothing to be done. It's like things need to get really really bad for anything to happen. Either this needs to go on for years of unhappiness until our child is at a point where he just wants no relationship of for the other parent to do something really wrong and for there to be a need to cease all contact for safety.

I know there is no easy solution to all this....I just wish there was.

I think that 99% of parents do not listen to their children enough in these situations because they cannot be emotionally intelligent enough to make their children their priority. I have experience of this from every conceivable angle. I was one of the parents who listened to my child, no matter how much it hurt. More people should do the same.

If the other parent is regularly giving their time away and saying they can't cope I would be keeping evidence of this and next time it happens, don't allow them back to their old schedule. Let them take you to court for it.

An 8 year olds opinion would be listened to in Court. That is the job of CAFCASS. If my child was distressed at going to the other parents house I would limit contact and go through Court if the other parent disagree’s.

Can the other parent see that the child doesn’t want to be their that often?

@Sharpandshineyteeth CAFCASS regularly get it very, very wrong.

Doesn’t mean they don’t take into account the kids opinion. Yes some CAFCASS workers are shit. But some are also great and the rest are in the middle.

Yep, the other parent is aware. Will comment on it, feeling sorry for themself from time to time. They talk about being second best and have said in the past that the child wouldn't be bothered if they weren't there. I think that is a bit extreme, I do think he would be bothered if they just up and left him for good. Recently they have started making jokes about 'dont stay here if you're in that kind of mood!' If he is being a bit silly at drop off so he'll say 'yaaaay' and turn to walk off back to the car. Just last weekend it happened and they said to him 'no you arent supposed to say that! I have presents here for you, I'll just have to keep them for myself if you dont come in' so then obviously being 8 years old and being told there were presents, he turned around and walked into the house....

Since this has been exacerbated by lockdown (like so many things) I’d focus on coming up with short term measures that could help. For example, could more school work be done with you, and less on the days with Parent A? If the two parents were still in a relationship, one of them would probably be more suited (in character and/or work circumstances) to do the home schooling, and an approach reflecting this across the two households could be helpful. Also, parent B has TV r emotional and practical support of a spouse, and parent B doesn’t - it’s really hard living through lockdown as a lone adult in a household and it might be helpful for parent B to kindly and gently discuss this with the child, in context of yes it’s easier for there to be fun at our house right now because I have a new spouse who can help with all the chores, and parent A doesn’t have that.

Eight is too young for the child to choose and although 50/50 often doesn’t work as kids get older, and needs adjusting, with all the extra uncertainty and stress of a pandemic it isn’t time to change that now.

Kids have a lot to worry about right now, that does show up in their behaviour at times. This child has extra to deal with, with his parents broken relationship, a new relationship for one parent, and living between two homes. So the fact that challenging behaviour shows up sometimes is understandable, and the fact that it happens with parent A and not the other doesn’t mean that parent A’s parenting isn’t as good or the relationship isn’t as strong; actually children who don’t feel safe or loved with an adult don’t habitually challenge them and their poor behaviour comes out elsewhere.

The stuff about the child’s feelings on the step parent situation is all a bit odd. Parent A is completely correct to say that the step parent isn’t a parent, and the child getting upset at that makes me wonder what they’re hearing at your house - he has Parent A (whether that’s mummy or daddy) and doesn’t need a replacement. Sometimes when children bring up things like this it’s because they’re actually trying to process the competing things they’re hearing, and struggling with competing loyalties. This might be doubly the case at the moment, lockdown means seeing one parent lonely and the other in a relationship - it’s a stark difference and sometime children then lean toward the parent who seems happier, avoiding their own complex emotions about the other parent. If this is the case then lots of understanding and compassionate conversation would be good, and potentially counselling over vid link - family therapy between both parents and the child would be great if parent A agreed to it.

X post with your last.

Appreciate everything you have said but just to make it clear, this isnt a new relationship. Parents have been split since he was a baby and step-parent has been around since he was 2. His other parent has been in a longterm relationship recently but that broke down and recently became single. The problems occurred whilst both households had two adults in them.

Also, in terms or what is said here about parents....it has always been clear that he has a mum, a dad and since the wedding two years ago he has had a step parent. Since before the wedding, even, he would be very fierce in confirming that he was also the step-parent child. Something which we have been happy to say as there is a lot of love between step parent and step child, they have a great relationship. As far as he is concerned, he has three parents and if his other parent gets married then he will have four. He used to talk about this in relation to his other parent's ex-partner. I'm sorry that I dont agree with you that it is odd that he feels defensive of someone who shows him a lot of love and care. It was actually the step parent who sat with him to explain that his other parent was right that they arent that parent but they can see why he feels angry with the way in which they say it to him. The step parent suggested to him that maybe he needs to try not to talk about them so much as it could be upsetting the other parent.

Appreciate your other comments though.