When your child doesn't want to live between houses

[COS2102]

WWYD?

8 year old boy living between mum and dad's house equally but always making a point of saying that he only wants to live at one of those homes. Both parents aware of this but talking about it a lot at the moment in the household which he wants to live. Saying that the other house is nasty to him about the parent and step-parent, and shouts in his ear when they arent happy with him. Also saying that when he feels like he needs 5 minutes to calm down from a disagreement that he isn't given space to do so. Apparently his parent follows him around the house when he says he needs 5 minutes. He has also been saying things like 'there's nothing for me there' and 'I'm just never happy when I'm there'. This preference over houses has been going on long before lockdown but has potentially been intensified because of lockdown and spending more time with the other parent due to no school.

I haven't disclosed which parent is which as I know that sometimes if I am Mum that I'd get different opinions to if I am Dad and I just really want neutral comments, not biased ones.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

If my child came home from his other parents house with a bruise because he had been pushed on to chair I would not send him back.
I would go to court and tell everybody why not.

Is there anyone independent who can mediate? Because this situation seems to put a lot of pressure on an 8 year old child. So if there isn't currently anyone independent to mediate I think you should find someone for the child to talk to about this.

So, some context to the bruise situation - he didnt make any reference to it until walking back to the other parents house after 24 hrs of contact. Wouldn't say why it was sore and at that point, no mark could be seen as he was walking and not quite able to point to the correct place. The parent said as soon as they opened the door 'he got that from the naughty chair'. I said I didnt know anything about it and nobody said anything further. It wasnt until 2 days later when I returned to bring him home that he told me on the car journey what had happened. It was then the day after that when I saw the bruise as I was applying suncream. By this point I felt like I didnt quite know what to do about it as quite a while had passed since the event and it also seemed as though it was because he was pushing against his parent that he was pushed back and it could have been something non-malicious and he just caught himself rather than genuinely being pushed hard enough to cause the bruise....if that makes sense? I do feel more on high guard now for any further instances of physicality and any more marks on his body.

Who do we look for to be an independent? Normally, school would talk to him about stuff when there have been issues in the past but with school being closed....who do we turn to?

Imo ss. The dc has an injury cause by emotional abuse..
Imo..
Emotional abuse all over this situation...
Poor dc..
At 8 my oldest dc was listened to in court.

@COS2102 sending you much sympathy.
I actually came onto this board tonight, as am in a very, very similar situation.
It’s shit isn’t it?
So difficult to know what to do for the best.
My DD is 9, and exDH and I split when she was 2. From the start, it was always 50/50 (not court ordered, just by mutual agreement).

Since she was 6, DD has said she only wants to live in one house (with me). After much wrangling with ex (who tried to make me out as a total bitch for saying we should change the agreement), he agreed to her being 8 nights with me, 6 with him (after I threatened going to a solicitor and mediation).

2 years on, DD is still saying she only wants to live with me, and visit him every 2 weeks.
I know it will kick off big style if I broach the subject with him.
Strangely enough, similarity, she also arrived back from his with multiple bruises last week
When I asked her, she grudgingly said it was her stepsister (said stepsister kicked DD in the tummy the week before).

@tigerbear it is so hard. Since I posted about this, there continued to be arguments at the other house and on one occasion, during an argument, he was told 'well go and live at your other house then and just dont ever come here and then we cant argue' this in turn then upset him because he said it's not that he never ever wants to be there, he just wants to be here more. It made him feel rejected...which obviously he makes them feel rejected by saying he doesn't want to be there but also he's a child and they are an adult. Just yesterday he was telling me that if he was a grown up then he would choose for him to live here and I said yes but you dont want to never be at the other house. I told him that until he can actually work out how his time will work with a change then he has to keep the current arrangement. There has been no more bruise incidents, I really do think it wasnt intentional and the other parent has frightened themself a bit by causing it. I dont want to put ideas in his head of how things could change, even though I could give him new options. I want to make sure that he hascome to a decision with as little influence from either parent as possible. I cant control the influence of the other house but I can control mine.

It is just such a shame because he has started hiding when he is told it's time to go, like he did when he was younger.

I think they will get to an age when their voice must be heard and as long as we continue to provide loving homes for them and they arent pressured or influenced by us then they will feel confident in their decisions and we can support them. I wouldn't like to think what it must be like to be the parent that they dont want to be with but sometimes they bring it on themselves too....

So the fact that challenging behaviour shows up sometimes is understandable, and the fact that it happens with parent A and not the other doesn’t mean that parent A’s parenting isn’t as good or the relationship isn’t as strong; actually children who don’t feel safe or loved with an adult don’t habitually challenge them and their poor behaviour comes out elsewhere.

This is very interesting Sommerville. I am in a similar situation. Do you have any links or further research on this? I am the resident parent and non-resident parent saying teen doesn't want to come home "due to arguments" (ie. xbox time etc). I'd really appreciate some further info on the subject of how they behave with each parent.

I think the mum, dad and child need some neutral mediation/family therapy. I can’t tell, from your posts, whether there is a genuine problem with the other parent or whether you and your partner are manipulating the child/situation.

www.nfm.org.uk/

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/care-and-treatment/treatments/family-therapy/

I'll confirm for you now that there is no manipulation. I am posted here due to the things said by LO and the calls made from the other parent and the bruise. The problem I have found with posting here (as this was my first time) by reading other posts etc is that you can never truly understand or know the original potter's situation. You get a snippet and from that snippet you can then take from it what you want. After posting here, Idhave decided to speak with other people more local to myself and I feel a lot more reassurance.
It must be awful to be the above poster who's teen isn't looking at a bigger picture and just looking at the xbox rules. Quite often I have seen, reading other forums, that these children go to live with the other parent and then sharp change their mind when they realise everything they have left behind in favour of 'better' x box rules.

There is so much more to this little boy, his life, his history, and the present day that I couldn't share it all in a forum post but I will not stand by when the suggestion made that he could be being manipulated. Also, the whole 'children lose their cool when they are with the parent they feel most safe around' is not one size fits all and is not the be all and end all to a child's life. There's also looking at who the child confides in, who they will tell their worries to, who they will go to when they have done something wrong or something has been done to them. The person that they trust.
Quite often, and I know this through my line of work, if a child feels no stability and security, if a child feels that an adult has little control then they will act out more in those situations. Children can't manage emotions if the adults around them can't. They can become a product of their environment.

Basically, everybody's story has much more to it but no. There is no manipulation here.

Also, sorry I didn't address this. I was hurt by the notion of manipulation after everything we have went through over the years. The original relationship before the break up etc.

Mediation has been had in the past, it was arranged via school. It was helpful in reducing alot of negativity from his other household, and gaining structure. This was about 3/4 years ago now so I do plan to speak to the school once he is back there. They are very good with him which is why I posted now as they are normally the ones I turn to. Not long before schools were closed, they were planning to see if they could speak to him about home life because there were noticeable differences when coming from different houses and he had started to say things. Whether that conversation was had, I don't know. I do feel confident in speaking to the school when they reopen but for now I have got myself into a position where I know how I am handling the current situation and helping our little boy with transitions and problems he wants to talk to me about.

I think 8 is too young to try and make him come up with new arrangements. You need to go through mediation. Sure the bruise may have been an accident but the parent who caused it is obviously emotionally bullying the child. I think you need to be less ‘neutral’ take the bull by the horns and get some outside mediation.

I'll confirm for you now that there is no manipulation.

You do realise it's impossible for anyone online to verify that, don't you? Obviously, everyone would want to believe what you say here but someone who was manipulative wouldn't admit it.

I think your plan of getting help from school or family therapy is a good one.

Don’t get mediation via a school. You can access mediation via solicitors. This is better.

You should never assume “fairness” for parents trumps what is the best decision for DC. Many parents alter agreements and have a legally agreed one in place. Lots of DC don’t go to one house and the other 50/50 at age 8. This child is not a pet. They have needs and feelings and yes, their views would be taken into account. Why should this child not be listened to? It’s important they are listened to. You should get a legal agreement in place and this wouldn’t involve the school.

I find it infuriating when parents share a child but forget that the needs of the child are central - not their feelings!

I think that Parent A needs to advocate for the child and inform Parent B what has been said. Maybe by email so no argument? It would be nice to think maybe parent B could reflect on their parenting style and change. Maybe word the email so it’s very non accusatory, stating it’s coming from a place of wanting what’s best for the child and their relationship with parent b, etc

If I was parent A I’d also start keeping a record of everything that’s said. But maybe not letting the child know I was doing this.

The child's feelings are the only ones needing consideration on this issue. If he wants to live in one house and not the other, he should live there. The parent from the other house can visit, take out, etc. A bit of plain speaking between his parents is needed to set it all out clearly but no child should be stressed by being trapped in a place they don't want to be.

I 'get' it could be a bit of a pain sometimes when the 'custodial' parent would like a break but, hopefully, there are sympathetic grandparents who will fill the breach sometimes and babysitters for nights out.

I'd reduce contact to what your son is happy with and tell the other parent to take it to court if they feel their wants outweigh your sons needs and if they're happy for your son to tell the court why he doesn't want to do 50/50.

Shared care is about the CHILDS rights, not the parents

I think your child should not be between houses as often as they are. I would be happy if my child was to go on weekends unless they told me other wise I would cut the shared care down. Also it seems that one of the parents is saying in appropriate comments such as “well go live there then” children should not be spoken to like that. I would be concerned if my child wasn’t happy to go to his dads I would inform dad and tell him until things pick up contact will be stopped. If he then wanted to go to a court I would rather as something seems odd OP that a child at 8 is unhappy to go to their parents house and coming home with a bruise. I would of drawn the line at that. Also naughty step at 8 is not really normal. Does your child not have their own room at the other parents house? Where does your child sleep?

After being so confident that things seemed to be settling a little at the other parent's house. Today, he has come home saying that he was hit in the face yesterday after he was told he was a horrible son so he said they were a horrible parent in retaliation and was hit for it. The story given was more detailed than this and he said he wanted his other parent messaged and told that he wouldnt be going back. This hasnt happened but have contacted nspcc on advice moving forward and waiting for a call back over the weekend. Hoping the nspcc can offer some solid advice and we can move forward without things becoming severe through social services involvement. It's so hard to give a full picture over internet forums but thought I'd give an update to anyone interested in this thread.
Not looking for advice on here now, just providing the update.

Why on Earth don’t you go to a solicitor for family advice. This needs to be tidied up with a residency order either by mediation of via the court. You are just getting deeper and deeper into trouble and this child is losing out. Listen to what he wants and act. See a family law solicitor and get it sorted out!

I do want to just say that you have to be careful. Contacting NSPCC is definitely the right move but it seems like DC is extremely bad at taking any form of punishment at Parent A's. You mentioned before he would do stuff like scream and shout when told off, physically try and push past Parent A to get off a naughty step etc.

You also mentioned that he came home and said Parent A was "screaming in his ears" and "saying nasty things" but it turned out the nasty things were just step-parent isn't your biological parent. I imagine "shouting in his ears" was possibly just shouting or telling off loudly too. Kids just do naturally tell stories these ways, it's not lying but exaggeration.

Did he have a mark on his face? Did you ask Parent A what happened? Have you stopped contact? These are all things you should do. If you contact NSPCC with no evidence and continue sending your child then it feels like it's just a game, you should document where possible and stop unsupervised contact until you can work out what happened.

Obviously i'm not saying DC is lying btw, i'm just saying children do embellish things naturally and DC in particular has had a troublesome time with Parent A and I don't know why but I sense that there's undermining from Parent B. It feels like there's more to it than described here.

The main thing is making sure DC is safe and if you stop contact and it turns out he didn't get hit or it was a misunderstanding then you use that as a basis to move forward.

I do hope everything goes well and it's just a misunderstanding. Whatever happens next I think getting a neutral party involved ASAP is for the best because even in a best case scenario that gives Parent A a chance to express how they're feeling and to come up with solutions to fix that broken relationship. Worst case scenario Parent A has become physically abusive and DC is saved from that situation. It feels like a win-win.

I have certain similarities between my ex, myself and my 8 yo.
My ex lives with his parents and i am on my own with 2 children. I've had a lot of undesirable behaviour from my 8yo and as the main carer and on my own, I find I have to juggle different approaches with him. I have to have boundaries so that he knows basic right from wrong (eg no hitting/intimidation) and that he is respectful, whilst trying to understand he has an 8yo emotionally immature brain currently prone to violent outbursts.
I imagine it would be much easier with two adults in the house as i am sure that a lot of the behaviour is due to a feeling that 'no-one is in his corner' after having been told off and that he just doesn't get my undivided attention as much as he would like whereas he probably gets more 1 to 1 attention at his Dads. I've asked if he behaves the same at his Dads and he said 'no, but i dont see my dad as much' (his dad hasnt seen him much in lockdown).
I have contacted educational psychologist as i am worried about his behaviour progressively getting worse and am just getting told that i 'am doing fine and the best i can' but i just feel that I'm not really as i am never sure if i have handled things in the best way, as i know i have said at one point to my 8yo that if he is unhappy living with me then I can't stop him living with his Dad, which is probably the total wrong thing to say, but when you are being called all the names under the sun and having things thrown at you, you do question why you are trying to do all you do for them.
Basically what i am trying to say in rather longwinded way is, maybe the lone parent is having a tougher time with the child for reasons that you don't see/experience.

@TheNortherner I hear everything you're saying. You're acknowledging you want things to be better for your son and you aren't blaming him. You're taking help where you can , when you feel like you need it.
Yep, telling him that he can go and live somewhere else probably isn't great because it can leave children feeling rejected but we aren't perfect people. There's no such thing.
For us, the nspcc were great at giving advice and support for talking with the other parent. They did want us to make a referral but that wasn't what I rang for. There has been a conversation had between parents where the other parent was more receptive than usual but still didnt want to accept help. I have spoken with my son about his behaviour when there and if the other parent doesn't want to take my lead then that is all I can do. I know he has been a terror at times over there but I also know, as the parent has told me how they deal with things, that the way things are dealt with arent best for my child. He isn't listened to and I'm not listened to. Hopefully, in my situation, the conversation has had some bearing and they do actually take on board the advice I have shared with them to make things better when at that house.

The way you put yourself across, The Northerner, I'd agree with the educational psychologist because you show awareness of what is going on and a desire to adapt yourself and not put blame on your child when things go wrong.

Children are complex beings, as are adults, and as long as we have their needs driving us forward we are only ever doing the best we can for them

Has parent b always been like this? It sounds like they may be depressed and overwhelmed and struggling. Did they confirm that they’d hit the child?