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Lone parents

Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

Thinking of Abandoning your Wife and Child? Here’s what you need to know.

240 replies

Adviceshop · 30/08/2019 13:26

1 – will I have to pay maintenance to my ex?
A: Yes – you will have to pay 16% of your gross salary (after pension deductions)
2 – So if I increase my pension contributions my maintenance will go down?
A: Yes.

  1. My child is in nursery as we both work – will I have to pay half towards childcare?
A: No, not at all. If your ex wishes to continue working she will have to pay it all.
  1. But won’t I have to have the child half the time and pay for my half when I have them?
A: Not if you don’t want to, no. You can just see the child at weekends and explain you can’t have them in the week because you work.
  1. Is there a minimum amount of time I will need to see my child?
A: Again, no, you can see your child as little as you wish.
  1. What if my ex won’t let me see my child?
A: You can take her to court to force her to allow you to see the child
  1. Can my ex take me to court to force me to see the child more regularly?
A: Not at all, no, this is not available as an option.
  1. Can I move away from my ex and child?
A: Certainly. In fact, if you move a long distance away you can apply for a “variation” to your child maintenance so that you pay less. You can say this is because you are incurring costs in visiting your child.
  1. So I would have to prove that I was incurring these costs to get the variation?
A: Not really no. Keep the receipts from one trip and say that you’re making that same trip every month, even if you’re not. 10. Can my ex move away with my child? A: Yes, but you can apply for a court order to stop her. 11. Can she apply for a court order to stop me moving away? A: No, of course not. 12. Won’t my leaving have an adverse effect on my child? A: Probably, but your ex will probably do everything in her power to minimise the ill effects. 13. How can I be sure my child will be looked after? A: If your ex neglects your child she will be punished by the state. If it gets really bad your child will be taken into care and looked after by the state. 14. Can the state make me take my child back? A: No, not at all. 15. Won’t society think badly of me for doing this? A: Possibly at first. Explain how unhappy you were. If you see your child a few times a year and pay the minimum maintenance then eventually you will be called “A Good Dad”.
OP posts:
NotBeingRobbed · 02/09/2019 11:39

OP, you are spot on with your tongue-in-cheek guide. So true.

Graphista · 02/09/2019 11:58

Duchess while you're not wrong, in that people SHOULD be telling deadbeat dads to step up something becoming socially unacceptable generally doesn't happen unless laws are put in place and enforced that show the state think that the behaviour is unacceptable,

Currently the cms has the ability to pursue non payers and take legal action against them but they very rarely use those abilities.

Sadly we cannot and shouldn't try to (because of the harm it would do the child) force a parent to love or to see their child.

Unfortunately we also have the situation that it's extremely difficult to stop even abusive parents from having contact. I personally know of one case where the father was convicted and served time for sexually abusing a child and was then awarded unsupervised contact after release because "he's served his time and had treatment" the mother was tearing her hair out because the child was understandably extremely distressed at the possibility of seeing the father.

Many many families at a lower level of that relationship being detrimental to the child's wellbeing have no chance of stopping an irresponsible, flaky nrp having contact with the child/ren. Had that experience myself and seen it a LOT!

The standard for encouraging contact should be much higher.

Nrps who are genuinely interested in having a relationship with their children will make the effort.

Those who aren't should be discouraged from pursuing their ex through the courts just to cause trouble.

I very much regret my decision to do what I thought was right at the time and do all I could to enable dd to keep seeing her dad. With hindsight it's clear that he couldn't be arsed and if I'd taken a more relaxed approach he'd likely have just faded out of dds life within the first year or so after we split.

Instead I chased him up on arrangements, did much of the transport (and covered the costs!) even travelled to where he lived and stayed in b&b's etc (and paid to do so), covered his cock ups, even when his actions were really showing he wasn't interested instead of "letting it be" which would likely have led to him gradually seeing less and less of dd I goaded him into taking me to court (because I couldn't take him to court to MAKE him step up) so we could get a contact order in place and he'd be told he had to be at X place at y time to see dd.

He repeatedly broke the terms of the contact orders, there'd be solicitors letters flying back and forth, I'd get frustrated at his lack of effort and goad him back to court where he'd promise to do better only for him to go back to his crappy lack of effort within a few weeks.

I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing at the time. As I say I now think it would have been far better to just let him keep cancelling/not turning up/turning up several hours late until he very likely would have just ended up not bothering at all.

But yes, absolutely the main issue is that deadbeat parents (mostly but not quite always dads) don't face any of their actions being regarded as socially unacceptable.

A friend of my brothers started being a bit of an arse in the aftermath of his split from his wife, bro and I called him out on it and told him to stop acting a petulant toddler, pay maintenance and make a proper effort to see his kids. He isn't generally a bad guy but he succumbed to the ideas that are sadly prevalent in certain circles that maintenance is "paying the ex" and that its just too much hard work having to be civil to an ex in order to make child contact arrangements. Head wobbled, he stepped up and now has a great relationship with his kids and a civil one with his ex.

However another former friend of mine we fell out because his 2nd wife (who was the one I was friendly with first funnily enough) and him were pissed off that his having to pay maintenance for the child from his first marriage meant they couldn't afford to have more children as soon as they'd have liked. He was full of how she didn't spend the money on the child and obstructed contact, but in conversations with them on the matter it became clear it was actually nonsense and on the contact side of things he was just full of crap excuses - "I've had a knackering week at work" "I'm skint this week we wouldn't be able to do anything" "the trains are having disruptions" - he just couldn't be arsed basically! Ended up I just couldn't bear to hear their pathetic excuses for letting this kid down and left the friendship.

kunderscorej · 02/09/2019 12:02

This makes me so angry and so sad at the same time. The odds really are stacked against single mothers. Great post OP

DuchessDumbarton · 02/09/2019 13:17

I agree Graphista that the State has a role in identifying that something is socially unacceptable; but personal attitudes have to change also.

E.g. attitudes to seat belt wearing....absolutely unthinkable nowadays, whereas in my childhood, it was quite laissez-faire.

Would I object to somebody in my car not wearing a seat-belt? Absolutely.

Do acquaintances object to my ex-H leaving the country ("it's work") and not paying a penny toward his children's food, education, clothing, health, hobbies? No, they do not.
When he is in-country, he is feted and wined and dined by our old friends. Friends that I don't see any longer (cos...money to pay babysitter to go out? nope, can't afford it).

Anyway, I applaud your efforts to wobble the heads of men in your circle.. and sometimes that is all that is needed.
The children cannot get lost in any bitterness or anger or recrimination.
You just have to rise above it.

As for the poster saying "what about the women who do it to".
I have scanned all my acquaintances and I cannot see one instance where a woman has left and abandoned her children.
Not to say that it doesn't happen, but......statistics

Graphista · 02/09/2019 14:19

I happen to know 4 women who left and abandoned their children, I understand and accept its very rare but it does happen and they behave/behaved just as badly as nrps with the usual stuff - not paying maintenance, not seeing the kids at all in 3 cases and very sporadically in the 4th.

It's not easy to call out friends on poor behaviour but it is important to do so.

It seems to me to be behaviour most displayed by men aged 40's and under too.

The men I know that are older and separated from their children's mothers wouldn't dream of behaving like this, for those generations it was certainly shameful not to financially support your family, and while less of an issue not really considered OK to not see them either.

Not saying it never happened but the way such men were talked about was much more critical than deadbeats are spoken of now.

Men of roughly my age (47) and younger seem to feel much less responsibility for the children they have half created. Even to the point of not taking responsibility for conception!

"She told me she was on the pill"
"She knew I hated wearing condoms"
"Not my fault contraception failed, she should have had an abortion"

I despair I really do.

As a society (and I very much include legislators and law enforcers in this) we should be expecting men to take adult responsibility for their fertility and for their share in meeting the needs of any children created.

Numerous threads on here showing the very low standards we accept.

Paying cms MINIMUM and seeing your kids eow and being a Disney dad when you do is NOT taking full responsibility of being a father!

These men have (in addition to other men), mothers, sisters, aunts, female cousins, who know how shit it is for single mums, who may be/have been single mums themselves who could tell such men to cut it the fuck out! Who could tell them what it's like, how tough it is - why don't they?

If my brother had ever behaved like that my mum, sister and I (and my dad and granda's) would have given him an almighty bollocking! And told him to stop being a selfish dick and behave responsibly.

He has since spent several years as a single parent though is now remarried again and is most vocal with his friends who don't act fairly.

We need this to happen much more and we need our lawmakers and enforcers to reinforce the attitude with their actions. Unfortunately our current govt is stuffed full of deadbeats!

SelenaMeyer2018 · 04/09/2019 07:20

It makes me so angry but great post. I’ve only been a single parent since Jan so all very new to me.

Can already see that my husband is being hailed as a good dad by seeing daughter every other weekend whilst in the meantime living life to the full on his now excessive disposable income (of course at the expense of not paying what he should until the matrimonial home is sold and causing great stress)

Oh yes and the relationship history - crazy woman thing; didn’t realise it was such a common default position although worth noting not crazy enough to worry about the children being in her care for 80% of the time!

Grrrrr.

OrchidInTheSun · 04/09/2019 07:56

Gosh graphista. That is shocking when 90% of single parents are women. You clearly move in some quite rarefied circles!

Kennyy · 04/09/2019 17:21

Most men would love to see their kids more than EOW but their ex don't let them. Just ask everyone how they feel about 50-50 residency and see how many support it.

NooNooMummy · 04/09/2019 18:19

Yes, that's what they all say. But when the judge asks them about their availability...

stucknoue · 04/09/2019 18:20

You forgot the final one, my kids live at home in an apprenticeship/college but are 18, do I have to pay. No of course not, you can chuck away 20 years of marriage (on low pay for the first years) now you are on good pay and you don't have to give a penny despite your wife sacrificing her career to enable you to move countries and cities working long hours.

(Actually I think he's going to give an acceptable settlement but it's still not payback for my sacrifices)

Graphista · 04/09/2019 19:43

" You clearly move in some quite rarefied circles!" All from different friendship "circles" none of them know each other. Due to being an army dependent and moving around a lot I've a lot of friends/different groups of friends. I do know it's incredibly rare but it does happen. And women really don't in my experience behave any better as nrps as men do. Seems to be a case of "out of sight out of mind"

Kennyy - not my experience at all, not only with my own ex but I know a lot of single parents and nrps too and I've yet to come across a nrp who wants more contact. The vast majority actually often cancel their regular contact and don't even take up offers of eg an additional weekend to make the time up.

I bent over backwards to facilitate dd seeing her dad it was like pulling Fucking teeth getting him to commit to seeing her and actually make the arrangements.

The nrps I know often have a load of very thin excuses why they don't see their kids more.

Without exception NONE of the nrps I know/know of who don't see their kids is it down to the rp being unreasonable. Either they plain don't bother or there was significant abuse involved leading to them being barred from seeing the kids for the kids own safety - and it's extremely hard to get to that stage.

I know of one case where the father served time for raping his dd and upon release was given unsupervised contact.

I know of other cases where the abuse was horrific, broken bones the lot and it still took years until the nrp was barred from seeing the kids.

"Oh yes and the relationship history - crazy woman thing; didn’t realise it was such a common default position although worth noting not crazy enough to worry about the children being in her care for 80% of the time!"

Numerous threads on here where it's the "new stepmum" posting, saying their new man has sworn blind they've done all they can to see the kids/see them more, the ex (who "new stepmum" has usually never even communicated with let alone met!) that his ex is crazy, jealous abusive etc. Time after time myself and others probe deeper, we ask if they've met/communicated with "crazy" ex, met the kids, seen ANY evidence that of what they're being told, eg texts/email, court reports, solicitors letters etc, spoken with anyone but his "side" that know his ex... I've yet to have a thread like that turn out to be anything except him spinning new girlfriend a line! Sometimes the op bravely comes back and admits they've since discovered he's not bothered about seeing the kids, or even that there was abuse involved. Mostly they just vanish. Stick around you'll see them come up.

OmniversalsTapdancingTadpole · 04/09/2019 20:41

Graphista you are spot on....... Sadly Sad

pikapikachu · 04/09/2019 21:35

Most men would love to see their kids more than EOW but their ex don't let them. Just ask everyone how they feel about 50-50 residency and see how many support it.

How many of the men who want 50-50 go part-time the way that many mothers do after their kids are born? In my experience the Dads often stay full-time and have their mothers or new gf looking after the kids during their time. Men who wanted to see their kids regularly wouldn't move into the home of a gf who lived a long distance away too. My ex still refuses to admit that his decision to move 3+ hours away with his gf is a massive reason why his relationship with the kids deteriorated post-split.

PicsInRed · 04/09/2019 22:48

Most men would love to see their kids more than EOW but their ex don't let them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're all super keen ... once they have a naive new gf falling over herself to do all the work.

Sunshineandreign · 05/09/2019 04:38

Most men would love to see their kids more than EOW but their ex don't let them.

Who are these most men, and where do they live?
Those who want 50/50 appear to fall into three camps

  • I want control over her life and will take her to court to get it. then break the terms of the order when they realise it will involve taking on a proper parental role. 25%

  • I want to get away with not paying cms. 25%

  • I want everyone to see me as a victim so will talk at length about how my crazy ex is keeping kids from me while continuing to live like Peter Pan 25%

  • A mature responsible adult who works out custody arrangements which supports their children's development in a way that suits all concerned 25% (spread out across the world and seen in the UK about as often as the last unicorn at a fairy convention)

ThighThighOfthigh · 05/09/2019 08:24

They may want more than EOW to begin with then they begin to move on. Find a gf, move further away, have new children. Children then become less used to them and it starts to fall apart.

motherstongue · 05/09/2019 20:24

I am incensed on all of your behalves that have found yourself in this position. Although I knew anecdotally about many of your points, seeing it all written down just makes me fucking angry at the injustice. I agree with other posters that this is enabled by those who govern (sadly still mainly men) who lack the will to make this socially unacceptable. Walk a mile in my shoes, eh! It's still a man's world.

Kennyy · 06/09/2019 23:56

Most men I know would love to see their kids more than EOW. That's the truth. It's not about "control". It's not about child support. Why should a man pay child support anyway if he is going to pay 50% of childcare? There's no need to pay child support.

If your ex moves far away then 50-50 is not realistic. Most men don't move far away though.

Thanks for all the answers though.

Sunshineandreign · 07/09/2019 05:37

@Kennyy
Where are you getting your data from to back up this magical theory.
There is plenty of evidence both anecdotal and research that proves otherwise.
Just because you as an individual may feel that way does not mean you know the thoughts and reactions of others.

Spanglyprincess1 · 07/09/2019 06:03

Ermm just being the voice of reason here there are deadbeat dad's but there are also women who are rp refuse acess, refuse to let the dad see their child, refuse to let him take them on holiday and treat them like an atm due to bitterness.
The cms thing is very sad but so is a rp refusing a nrp acess to punish them.
We all know a deadbeat dad but we also all know a woman who reused acess or holidays out of spite/anger.

Spanglyprincess1 · 07/09/2019 06:06

The same people who don't think people want 50.50 also then argue its not in best interests of kids.
You can't win as either the rp or nrp tbh.

slipperywhensparticus · 07/09/2019 06:27

OP makes valid point that stands for the majority of cases

Posters WOMEN DO IT TOO! & WHAT ABOUT THE (rare as fucking hens teeth) GOOD MEN!

I fucking despair I really do I would actually tell my story which is shocking but I think it might fall on deaf ears

slipperywhensparticus · 07/09/2019 06:28

50/50 has been proved to be no good for young children its emotionally damaging but still people go for it to get out of paying a few pennies

pinkpixie83 · 07/09/2019 06:52

And then you have those who see the children minimal times, and constantly throw communication and co-parenting at the mum, but refuse to talk when she brings up an issue the children have bought up, because it could not possibly be true, but no he isn't calling his children a liar its just his girlfriend isn't like that and it much easier to throw threats of mediation around, knowing mum doesn't have either the the time, because of the children and work or the money.

CandyLeBonBon · 07/09/2019 06:56

Spot on pink