Mums stopping contact with Dads

[angell84]

I would just like to share my story, because it really might help some mum's to see the bigger picture - in allowing their child contact with their Dad.

My Dad was from England and my mum was from a different European country.
When they divorced we all lived in England for a time and she began to let us see him less and less. He had to go to court to fight for access. Can I add here that my Dad was a lovely man, and I wanted to see him every week - but I had no power or control. My mother had all the power.

She then took us to her home country of birth without his permission. He had police looking for us for a long time. She then lied to police that he had hit her. And told him that he would be arrested if he came to her country. She told us awful things about him

. She forced me to write letters to him saying awful things to him. I didnt want to write them. I had no say. I had no power to see my father whatsoever. Years passed and my teenage brother eventually had a break down and was put into an adolescent psychiatric unit. He told health workers there that he hadn't seem his dad in years and he needed to see them. They were finally able to make my mother allow my father to see us at the health centre. This was after five years. I still remember my Dad walking in, hugging us and hysterically crying. That is seared into my heart.

Then the war began again with him and my mother. She psychologically abused him into the ground. She would tell him we were going over for visits, then not let us go at the last minute, not tell him and make him drive hours to the airport and make him wait for us there. Again she made me write awful things to him.

My broke my father down and my father committed suicide three years ago. I am an adult now, every day I wake up in the morning - and my first thought is total pain and rage at all what happened. And pain and rage at the system that puts the mother's rights over the father's.

To mothers out there - you have the power. Please, please be compassionate and let the fathers of your children see their children. It causes unending pain to the father AND to the children when you seperate them.

I see plenty of women calling men "abusive", when they are far, far from perfect themselves.

I have worked in DV services all my adult life. I assure you emotional abuse is as dangerous as physical abuse.

You are projecting based on your experience of one woman - your mother. But the stats speak for themselves. Most abuse victims are women. Most perpetrators are men. Male DV victims are often a) in same sex relationships and b) also abusers.

I had to limit DD's overnight visits to her dad's due to safety issues (a long list of things, but that's another story). I stressed in my communication when I put a stop to them that I would facilitate day visits as much as I could, asking him to just let me know what days he wanted to see her and I'd drop her off and collect her - he's seen her once this whole school holidays. He has told DD on the phone that he would contact me to arrange more ... I'm yet to hear from him (even after texting him myself). You can lead a horse to water and all that - but it breaks my heart to think that DD may feel abandoned, lied to or rejected by her dad.

DH's ex wife on the other hand used their 2 kids as a weapon of retaliation - it was sickening to see and has affected DH and his DDs significantly - fortunately they're old enough now to make their own decisions, but it's going to be a long road to rebuilding their relationship (DH was terrified of losing what little contact she allowed if he took her back to court - she was already ignoring the original agreement so was a pretty safe bet she would again).

Fathers for justice had my support. I have seen lots of great men have to jump through hoops to see their children paying £1000's to gain access

Fathers for justice had my support until they made that statement about Kerry Katona having blood on her hands because she refused George access to his child. Maybe she did but fathers for justice did the very thing they claim to advocate against!

The want women to stop using children as pawns.

Yet they made that claim using Kerry & George's child as a pawn to further their cause. Their cause was more important than the impact that statement would have on all of Kerry's children who were suffering the loss of a father or step father.

those statements were calculated to further a cause and that child will hear this in school and will find it online in years to come. There was no evidence such as court documents to support claims he was trying to access his children nor do we know if access was denied due to safeguarding risks.

Equally they may have been true however if this was the case I'd have hoped it would have been supported by some form of evidence

There are amazing dads who are unjustly denied access to their children. No one should ever use a child as a pawn or to retain control or get revenge. But that applies to Fathers for Justice too.

There are great fathers who aren't celebrated enough and there's shit ones too who get all the focus. Two people make a child and should have equal access provided it's in a loving stable secure home

Fathers for Justice have a shit tonne of members with DV convictions or arrests.

I agree with everything @PoffleWaffleWoo has said, mainly because it’s actually based on facts.

Emotional and mental abuse is something that can affect the victim’s entire life, just like physical or sexual abuse can. The abuse is often entrenched in our beliefs in the end. Once they’re there, it’s hard to shake.

I’m actually surprised OP that you seem to be downplaying emotional/mental abuse in your later posts, given what you said in your OP about the awful way your mother has behaved.

You didn't answer my question Topseyt. If I started a discussion abou deadbeat fathers would you try to "balance it out"?

The only question I am balancing out is the one OP asked. Deadbeat or abusive fathers can be a reason for contact being very low or withheld.

I have no intention of saying anything else however much you badger for it.

You are projecting based on your experience of one woman - your mother. But the stats speak for themselves. Most abuse victims are women. Most perpetrators are men. Male DV victims are often a) in same sex relationships and b) also abusers

Wow. I sincerely hope that, while working in DV services, @pofflewafflewoo, you aren't allowed anywhere near any male victims.

PoffleWaffleWoo you state that men are more abusive, women are more abused and where men are abused its usually in same sex relationships however you are missing 1 piece of the information the type of relationship with the highest occurence of abuse are lesbian relationships. How does that fit in?

I dont want to take away from your awful experience OP. I am so sorry at what you have suffered, and I cant blame you for being devastated, angry, and everything in between.

Your experience, as in women inflicting abuse is in the vast minority though, as its women and hildren thst are getting murdered at a frightening rate every week, even now, after laws changed to protect them.

I am sure you wouldn't want to minimise this very frightening statistic that women and children are even today at such high risk, and thsts not counting the dms who have killed themselves and/or had to simply walk away from their dc because they are too terrified of their lives to even say no to the abusive father.

I am just wanting to check whst you are trying to say really.

From what I've seen dms commonly try to promote a good relationship with their dcs dad, especially when they have fully realised how abusive and harmful it is to them all. This is the opposite of the attitude to the abusive df though.

DC cannot possibly have the same awareness of what is happening between two adults, and fathers will commonly use extreme emotional blackmail on the dc.

I am not saying yours did, but I am saying its extremely hard for dc to see through, or to let go of fathers even when they are very abusive.

Dont even mention F4J!! Good god!! Appalling rabble. Fathers do get to dictate contact through court and no-one can make them do anything, even when they set it up and dont go and repeatedly let their dc down, heartbreaking.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss and experiences.

single

Participants in a survey about domestic violence were asked 'are you a lesbian', so obviously that study was always going to show going to show high rates for lesbians suffering domestic violence.

To accurately find rates of DV amongst lesbians you would have to ask a significant sample of lesbians 'have you suffered from same sex domestic violence' and to my knowledge that hasn't happened.

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad

I have worked with many alleged male victims. All have been treated with utmost respect and courtesy. Unfortunately, of those alleged victims, only four were actually victims. The rest were abusers masquerading as victims. And I don't mean that was just my opinion, I mean this was actually proven. Of the four victims I encountered, three were gay men.

Domestic violence is a gendered crime.

*haven't !! (Especially when they haven't realised....) of course

Why did your mum keep you away? Have you asked her? What did she say?

I will always remember the first male victim I ever encountered because I was young and I believed him 100 per cent. He came to us saying his wife (who had just thrown him out) beat him, screamed at him and stopped him seeing his children. He presented us with written statements from members of his family saying how awful she was and how she had poisoned his children against him. She was questioned by the police and social services became involved. She was so terrified he would gain custody of her children that she decided to take him back. He killed her and their youngest child a year later. Of course it turned out he'd been abusing her all along.

PoffleWaffleWoo thanks I hadnt realised that I assumed it was just pulled from statistics. When you say domestic violence are you including things like controlling behaviour in that or do you seperate that. Also you say in many cases where a man claims abuse it turns out he is the abuser yet some studies suggest that a large number of cases where men are abused it only comes to light when the female makes a claim of abuse. In your position how do you keep an open mind when both parties claim abuse?

When you say domestic violence are you including things like controlling behaviour in that or do you seperate that

Yes of course, it's all included.

Also you say in many cases where a man claims abuse it turns out he is the abuser yet some studies suggest that a large number of cases where men are abused it only comes to light when the female makes a claim of abuse

Doesn't surprise me at all, a typical tactic abusive men use when they know they are losing control over their partners is to say oh no you've got it all wrong, she's the abuser. In fact when some men were questioned about what they thought abuse was they included things like not getting sex, being asked to do housework or not having their meals cooked.

When you have been doing this job as I have you can spot a liar (male or female) a mile off.

I mean if you want examples of times men have told me their wives or girlfriends are abusive and then it's been patently proven to be the other way round I would be here all night. I know of cases where the wife has literally been beaten black and blue by the husband and yet the children have still taken his side. It happens.

PoffleWaffleWoo thankyou for your answers interesting to hear another side to it. Also terrible to hear about your first "male victim" that must have been awful to deal with.

Good God this thread has turned narcissistic. Lots of victims and hero’s here but no villains.
Absolutely every excuse under the sun to avoid the guilt of driving so many men to suicide.

All the while another thread is running where a man has denied access to the mother and the hypocrisy is thick and choking on MN today.

Parent why would any of the posters here have guilt?

Good God this thread has turned narcissistic. Lots of victims and hero’s here but no villains. Absolutely every excuse under the sun to avoid the guilt of driving so many men to suicide.

I don't think you are actually reading anyone's posts, you clearly have your own agenda and want to stick with it.

@PoffleWaffleWoo

What are your views on what Erin Prizzy has to say - she was the original founder of Refuge, in 1971 - but Im hoping you would know that?

Do you mean her rants back in 1999 which have been widely discredited by the statistics as well as by basically everyone else who works in the sector?