how do other people see us?

[nightowl]

recent threads have perhaps prompted me to ask this question. do you feel as lone parents that we are looked down on? (i dont mean on mn by the way, just in general). i for one am sick and tired of feeling the need to explain myself, why i am a single parent etc. i always feel that i need to justify it and have received more negative comments that positive. the only good comment i have ever received was from one of my previous work suppliers. we were on a night out with them and i was pregnant. i was chatting to one man and when he found out that my partner had left me (it was just mentioned in conversation, nothing more) he turned around and said that he admired me for what i was doing, bringing a child into the world when i knew it would be difficult and that his mother had done the same, he never knew his father etc. i was touched. he was the ONLY person that thought this way when even my own family were telling me to have an abortion. has anyone had the same experience?

I think people do look down on single mothers and I think alot of the trouble is the MEDIA grrrr they make single mothers out to be vile horrible creatures who prey on society, its bollox.

I dont see single mothers as bad at all. Why should I? you are all lovely

Tigermoth, the funny thing is, those people you know had obviously unconsciously absorbed some of the attitudes of the wider society, where they just assumed that because you had a DH, you must be at some level doing better than them, even though you quite patently weren't.

Bad Hair, interesting that you say that your DP is treated better when people assume him to be a lone parent, while you are treated worse - men of course, are lauded as conquering heroes if they are lone parents with care and control, although all they are doing is stuff women do all the time.

Maybe it's because I hardly have time to look at a newspaper anymore, but my observation is the oppposite of Fio's. I wasn't aware at all that people look down on single mothers! On the contrary, the people I know, myself included, seem to have the opposite view: a romanticized respect for the toughness, sacrifice, stoicism and independence of single mothers. I was a pseudo single mother for 7 months when I was away in the US and dh was in England. I was proud of myself--not for the work I was doing which seemed sort of irrelevant, but for the fact that I was getting on as a single mum (of sorts)! To me that was the great achievement of my time over there. I even felt sort of hip in a way, being a single mum. So maybe my view is equally rubbish for its idealized quality, but there it is.

I think society looks down on the media portraye single mum off out clubbing , council flat living on benefits but I thinkmost people now know at least on esingle mum an dsee them as teh hard working , juggling people they are trying to the best they can for the children, I think the old view will soon be replaced but it must be hard for this happen when Govt policy views single mums as bad money grabbers. I sometimes think finacially life as asingle mum is better than that of low income couples with children but that is never more than a passing thought when readuing tax credit info.

while i was pregnant, and single, i didn't find that people looked down on me, they just couldn't understand why i wasn't more upset about it. even when i went to see the GP for the first time she just assumed i would want a termination.

People generally seem to look at me as if I'm stupid for getting pg and assume I don't know what I'm doing because I'm a young mum. It used to get on my nerves but now I know I'm doing a good job and try and ignore the 'looks'. Also, people who know me don't have that opinion so why should I care about anyone else?

I don't know what i thought before i had my dd but as Fio2 said, i had the idea that society does look down on single mums.
Now i have a dd aged 3 and another on the way, i often say to DP that single mums must have the patience of saints to do it all on their own.(though i know you don't have a choice, you do what you have to do for your kids).
I think you're all amazing!!!!

angeliz!!!

message withdrawn

i was asingle mum for a just over a yr as me and dh split up for a while. i found it annoying when i was in the post office queues to get my benefits and i could hear people muttering. dh was once with mieow son when he was very very young, me and mieow were getting tattooes done so dh took mieows ds to the shop. he passed some eldery types who started talkign about how young parents get everything given to them without working a day in their lives. dh turned round and said 'well this lad has both parents, both work and own their own home (that bit was a lie) and actually, his not mine, his my nephew' he left left with their jaws hanging open as he walked off.

misdee - good for him!!! It annoys me that some single parents are seen as 'spongers'. I get benefits atm but I expect I'll pay far more tax in life than I ever get back, and dd will of course pay tax too, which will help pay for the pensions of the people who look down their noses at me!! It's crazy!

And I don't look at old people on benefits, or the disabled, or people who are out of work and say that they get everything handed to them so why should single parents get looked down at?

i have to say that i haven't met with negative comments as such but do get looks when people assume i'm a mrs cos i have a child and i then correct them that i am a miss!!

i also hate the sympathy when you tell people you are a single parent, like "oh dear, i didn't know". ffs!

it annoys me too. people assume that me and dh are now spongers, some one turned round to me and said 'well u just dont want to work do u' when i was talkign about possibily going back to work but didnt want to go back to shop work as thats all i did for 6yrs before hand. the fact is, i am a full time carer, its cheaper for the govt to pay me to look after my diabled family than anyone else. in fact i should be feeling used by the govt. most people dont plan to be single parents, would people say the same to people who had been widowed at a later stage in life (mid 30's, rather than early 20's?), i doubt it. they would be praised for raising kids in a sad situation. just becuase u arent a 2-parent family doesnt make u any less of a good parent.

When Ds1 was a tiny baby, just a few weeks old, DH was at work or somewhere and I had 101 things to do, baby was crying and hungry, flat was a state, I was exhausted, etc etc and I distinctly remember thinking " Jesus I don't know how anyone can do this alone!" and in the split second my admiration and respect for single parents went through the roof.

As I've written before, I am a single mum by choice, having conceived dd at a fertility clinic using an anonymous donor. We obviously don't have a father on the scene for dd, so am a lone parent, but we simply got there in a different way. In some ways perhaps we are lucky not to have the disapointment of a dh/dp who has let us down, or messes us about. As far as what other's think....when I explain the situation, people are overwhelmingly supportive and positive about my choice to be a single mum.

These are the main times I have experienced some awkwardness about being a single mum, and have wondered how others (who don't know my story) view me:

1. In antenatal classes and in hospital giving birth. I would have loved to share those experiences with a loving, supportive partner. Instead, my female cousin accompanied me. I think people did wonder, but it may have been my own sensitivity to being different to the majority. Were people looking down at me, making assumptions or judging me? Who knows, perhaps it was simply my sadness at doing those things alone when I always assumed/hoped that I would do them with a dp/dh.

2. The other time I feel awkward is filling out any forms to do with dd. On dd's birth certificate I wanted to put "anonymous donor" in the father's name space, but was not allowed. Was told I had to either put in a name, or leave the space blank. By leaving the form blank, I know it's highly likely that people will make incorrect assumptions that could be judgmental. Another instance regarding forms....at the moment, I have been filling out alot of school forms, and of course, they ask for contact information on both parents. Do I simply leave the father/husband space blank, or put in N/A? How much do I explain, or do I leave it and let others make their own assumptions?

I have to say I was appalled to receive letters from dd's nursery addressed to "Mrs. Mummy Earlybird and None Earlybird". It dawned on me that it was probably a computerised mailing list that wouldn't allow them to leave the father's name blank.......so they simply inserted "None". I had a word with the headmistress who was apologetic. It's small instances like those that make me aware of our status as a different type of family, and maybe "not normal" when compared to the majority. But, generally I don't feel looked down upon. And I did enjoy the thread on advantages to being a lone parent.

Rant alert: if you want to get wound up, read a patronizing do-gooding article by Polly Toynbee in today's Guardian, about how rubbish being a mother is because workplaces don't all adopt best practice towards working mothers, and therefore how wonderful it is that 80% of young mothers from the highest social class get abortions, go on to be childess workaholics all with their own pension funds (or eventually elderly primi gravidae after IVF etc), and how terrible that young women from poorer backgrounds are so deluded that they don't get abortions and instead see a value in having some children and bringing them up. The real feminist approach, which Polly Toynbee does not even consider, is to ask what can be done to enable young women to combine motherhood with study and career development, because getting pregnant and wanting to be a mother is reality for most young females and part of their femininity.

I am not aware that anyone has ever looked at me negatively but then I'm upfront about my situation and really quite proud of how I cope with it all. Most people are full of respect and admiration I think.

I did have a partner while pg and giving birth so maybe that bit was easier for me than having looks at that time.

Single parents deserve a bit pat on the back and thanks for those on this thread that have said so!

I agree with emmatg - in the first few horrendous weeks after childbirth I also felt (as I asked dh to make dinner/grab me a cup of tea for the zillionth time) how on earth do people manage this on their own (though of course they just have to!).

This is a subject close to my heart; although I am not a single parent, my mum was. I never knew my father, and was brought up on benefits by my mother, living in my grandparents house. My mother was definitely ashamed of her situation - she saw the fact that she was a single parent on benefits as being a shameful secret. I think things have moved on enormously in the last 25 years, though there is still a great deal of stigma attached to living on benefits. I think that single motherhood per se does not have much stigma if you are middle class and self supporting (i.e. that illegitimacy (horrible horrible word)carries very little of its past stigma), but that mothers on benefits remain a folk devil - you know the "they all get pg to get a council house and benefits" school of thought.

Motherhood continues to be very much undervalued - the current political approach seems to be to force mothers on benefits back into the workplace at the earliest feasible opportunity. Funny how whilst there are lots of adverts on shopping benefit cheats and about how the government will catch people who don't pay the TV licence fee, there is no equivalent publicity about tax dodgers! In any case, even if you don't pay taxes, you contribute to the public purse by VAT you pay on purses, so it is inaccurate to portray people on benefits as making no financial contribution to the country.

Earlybird - I went to antenatal classes during the day, so most people were on their own. A few people were with friends/or partners. From my point of view I was so take up with my own pg that I didn't really wonder or care if people were married/had partners etc. I guess though things may be different for evening classes where people do bring partners along.

Sorry for ranting on!

These stereotypes annoy me a lot too so I have stopped reading those stories in the papers! You are dead right about social class though. When I was enquiring with one after school club, she expressed surprise that I was so organized, months in advance, so I said that I had to be because I am a single parent and work fulltime. She blurted out, "Oh my God! I thought you were a rich man's wife." Because I don't conform to the "About a Boy" style verge-of-a-nervous-breakdown single mother stereotype, most people just assume I am some rich man's wife. On the other hand, some married mothers (this is not aimed at anyone on MN!) find it very threatening that you are doing everything alone, and almost are disappointed to learn that you are coping happily. Sometimes the, "Oh, how on earth do you manage?" conversation is not flattering but is really patronizing and offensive.

I think that when they think properly about it, most people would agree that single parenthood in of itself is not necessarily a terrible thing for a child (after all, society had no objections to it during the war when Daddies being sent off for years and possibly never coming back to their families was seen as socially necessary - nobody talked then about whether the government should be encouraging families to be headed by lone parents), but in many cases the gut reaction is that a two parent family is necessarily superior and that a family headed by only one parent is somehow inferior ? lacking a strong male role model, slightly dysfunctional, even if looking OK on the outside, just a little bit less valid than two parent families.

Even the strongest, happiest, most cheerful one parent families are often seen as weaker than the most unhappy, dysfunctional, miserable two parent families ? Turnagaincat, I know exactly what you mean about the ?Oh my God, you?re not an alcoholic, falling to pieces emotional wreck kind of lone parent?, I?ve had those conversations too! Even when they know that the absent parent cannot function as a parent and that the family functions much better without him or her, people still have a nagging question in their minds of whether you could have tried harder to keep your family together and what a shame it is that there?s only one parent. Ignoring the fact that the alternative would have been worse.

Mean Bean - I wholly agree your comment re:dysfunctional families. My mother married again a few years ago - and her husband is pathologically jealous and controlling. My mother had an enormous amount of support from her mother (who looked after me whilst my mum finished off her studies) and her father - who quite happily changed my nappies and took me to the park. Whilst notionally if my mother had a child with her husband she would be in a married two parent family and in an "ideal" situation, I am sure that when she was a single parent, this was better for her in terms of support and environment to bring a child up in than living with a controlling, occasionally violent husband. In RL I hope I would never say to a single parent "how do you manage". But if I think it, it is not in a patronising way - more of a - it's difficult enough physically and emotionally with a new baby with a partner living with you and available to provide some domestic assistance, so would be even tougher without that - tho of course family members and good friends can provide this help too.

i used to work with a single mother she had three kids and to be honest i never thought anything unusualabout it realy its the same if im out with ds going for a walk because i look young for me age people asume im a single mother when they come with lines like wheres the father oh you must have been young when you had him father couldnt cope with the resonseability to the point where my blood boils and i see red and start screaming what has age got to bl*y do with it and no i never clarify that im engaged its none of there buisness as long as the child is fed clothed and loved how many parents do you need to do that
sorry will stop now ranting again

i think the problem is the stereotype of women being vulnerable, emotional rollercoasters, so people automatically think we cant cope. and i know a lot of young single mums are sterotyped to be just doing it for the benefits, and to get council homes and whatever.

when i was splitting up with exp, everyone was saying i wouldnt be able to cope and that im going to be forever in debt, and ill regret it, and that i should stay with him as he's dd's father and i'll have financial security and a roof over my head. i think being a single mum shows just how strong women can be, and that women do rule the world!!!

I am a mother who is single - not a single mother. I have an amazing child, a fab job, a house and great friends, most of whom are married couples. I have had some comments in the past, but usually from women who were at home with children, whilst hubbies were away playing. I am so very proud of myself and my child. I have sacrificed a hell of a lot to prove that I can do it on my own and I have utmost respect for those women who are bringing up their families - functional or dysfuntional. Really, we should all give ourselves a pat on the back. Motherhood is bloody hard, alone or with a partner. We all deserve some sort of accolade.