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Original poster

Should I pursue Child Maintenance?

70 replies

bassey2389 · 21/03/2017 00:12

Having a crisis of conscience over whether I should go to CMS or not....

Unplanned pregnancy, the father tried to force me to have an termination but I just couldn't do it (also still illegal in NI) We had no contact after I told him I couldn't have a termination as he told me he was moving back to Australia.

When son was born contacted father (who still hadn't moved back to Australia) to encourage him to meet son. He confirmed he still didn't want anything to do with him and would consider putting some money aside for him when he got back to Australia.

8 months later father has still not moved away, is living with a new partner and has made no effort to make contact or contribute.

Just looking for some honest opinions on whether I should pursue child maintenance or pull up my big girl pants and keep at it alone?

OP posts:
user1488198315 · 30/03/2017 13:38

slug, so does that mean that every woman who doesn't want a baby should have a hysterectomy before having sex? Or are men supposed to assume that when he has sex with a woman that she wants to have a baby with him??

The reality is that both men and woman are entitle to have sex in any way they want to so long as they both know the other ones thoughts and not expect anything other than sex from it..

For me there are two types of Dads, ones type is the Dad who wanted a baby with the woman he is having sex with and is committed to the relationship and baby/fatherhood, and then there is the other type is the ones who do NOT want a baby with the woman he is having sex with.. when someone makes a conscious decision one way or the other, its wrong for the other person to force them to do something they don't want to.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 30/03/2017 14:03

If a woman wants to have sex then she has to accept that if contraception goes wrong then she either has to have a baby or a termination. She gets to choose which but she has to do one or the other.

If a man wants to have sex then he has to accept that if contraception goes wrong then he does not get to decide whether his sexual partner has a termination and that if she decides to have the baby then he is liable for maintenance. He doesn't have to care for the child, he doesn't even have to see the child but he does have to pay for it.

These two facts are due to a combination of biology and the law.

Both Op and her ex chose to have sex knowing these facts. The Op had to make a hard decision and is now having to raise a child alone. The
Op's ex has to pay.

user1488198315 · 30/03/2017 14:22

Question for everyone... how many women would have children (conceived through casual/non-relationship sex) if they knew in advance they were legally not entitled to get any financial help from the father or the Government?

TinyPawz · 30/03/2017 14:33

User you are a delight.

Claim. It's his child too.

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 30/03/2017 14:55

Question for everyone... how many women would have children (conceived through casual/non-relationship sex) if they knew in advance they were legally not entitled to get any financial help from the father or the Government?

How many men would be a hell of a lot more careful where they stuck their dick if they realised they'd actually have to take responsibility for any child they created? I get fuck all from my XH, neither do any of the other women he's had kids with (there's 7 of us in total, my DS is the 3rd)

user1488198315 · 30/03/2017 14:58

Then maybe YOU should have taken responsibility and NOT had sex with a man who 'sticks his dick anywhere' and has other children?

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 30/03/2017 15:41

Thanks user, thing is I HAVE taken responsibility, every single day of my son's life, I've provided for him, raised him, loved him and supported him. You know, like a parent is supposed to? If you'd actually read my post instead of being a cheeky fucker so offensive, you'd have seen the majority of them were born after my son. I think you've got serious issues if you genuinely believe men should be able to create children and not provide for them.

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 30/03/2017 15:43

Oh and he was my husband at the time more's the pity

user1488198315 · 30/03/2017 16:57

If a man chooses to have a child, he should pay for it... of that I have no doubts...

if a man doesn't want a child then he should not be forced into it just as a woman who does not want a child should not be forced to keep it, likewise if she wants it she should not be forced to have an abortion....

forcing someone to do something they don't want leads to resentment....

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 30/03/2017 17:11

And being abandoned by a parent who chose not to fulfil their responsibilities leads to what? User you're either a GF or an absolute twat, I'm not sure which.

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 30/03/2017 17:33

You're all about the "rights of the man" what about the rights of the child?

Toobloodytired · 30/03/2017 19:42

What about this scenario.......

Woman and guy sleep together for fun.

Woman makes it very clear she does not want children so they use contraception, however there is always a risk of pregnancy.

The woman falls pregnant, she tells the guy but states she does not want the man to be involved as it wasn't the plan anyway.

Guy comes on mumsnet & asks for advice on being involved with his child, you all say.......you are the father, you've a legal right to be involved, take the mother to court for access.

So I'm sorry but anyone who said he made it clear are being one sided!

kittybiscuits · 30/03/2017 19:46

Fuck off and start your own thread user.

It's a shame you have to go to CMS but that's why it's there - so that dickheads who are incapable of doing the legal minimum can be forced to do so.

user1488198315 · 31/03/2017 08:52

sorry if I've hit a nerve kitty but my points are valid.... the OP has a 'crisis of conscience' her words not mine, this is because she had a child knowing the man she was having sex with didn't....

she wasn't sure whether to chase him for CM or let him get on with his life...

My opinion as I've already said is that no-one MALE or FEMALE should be forced to do something they don't want to do because when they are, it leads to resentment and upset, which affects THE CHILD (when a man is forced to be a father and pay money for a child they didn't want)!!!

If a woman is forced to have an abortion (more often than not) she is devastated and heartbroken because she wanted the baby, so why isn't it ok for a guy for feel devastated and heartbroken because he is being forced to be a father and pay the price (legal or otherwise). Most women never get over having an abortion but men are expected to 'just get on with it'..

The other thing I'd like to point out is that not RP are female and if you do some research you will find that the mothers who pay child maintenance complain and struggle too.... it's not about guys right or females rights... its about doing the right thing for the child and if that means it grows up in a happier environment without the NRP paying any money than that's what should be important.... not what the legal system says.

user1488198315 · 31/03/2017 09:23

and just to add, my comments are based on MY experience and my best friends experience:

I had a mortgage, bills and expenses when I was single

I had a mortgage, bills and expenses when I lived with my ex (shared costs).

I had a mortgage, bills and expenses when my ex and I decided to have a child (Only got CB due to high income) none of my outgoings changed because I had a child, we had a little more outgoings to pay for our daughter).

I had a mortgage, bills and expenses to pay when my ex and I split up but what was lost in the household income (due to him leaving) was made up for with working tax credits and child tax credits so this meant that I didn't NEED money from him, but according to CM calculator he should be paying me £400 per month!!!

My ex is a brilliant father and puts our daughter first every time so we agreed that he would give me money if/when he could afford it (which was even further reduced when I married my husband), but the priority was our daughter... as a result there was NEVER an issue with money... my daughter has two loving parents who never fall out over money...

my best friend on the other hand had two children with men she wasn't in a relationship with and has had nothing but upset and turmoil from the oldest childs father for more than 17 years and it is ALWAYS about money... he resents her and her daughter and it's going the same way with her youngest childs father but she has chosen not to fight for money this time and is in a much better place.... those fathers have to live with themselves but it is THEIR choice....

slug · 31/03/2017 13:59

You missed a step Toobloodytired

The woman falls pregnant, she tells the guy but states she does not want the man to be involved as it wasn't the plan anyway.

Women gets an abortion

slug · 31/03/2017 14:08

Bloody hell user you're being a bit dense. It can be very difficult for women to absolutely avoid becoming pregnant because, you know, men have a habit of forcing sex on women

A question for you...Why do you seem fixated on PIV sex? After all that's the bit that gets you pregnant. If a man really really does not want a baby, all he has to do is avoid PIV sex. I did not say the woman has to get a hysterectomy or the man has to abstain from sex altogether, just avoid the bit that causes babies.

The thing is, ultimately, men aren't the ones with a uterus. They can, and frequently do, walk away without a backward glance, leaving the care of the child to the woman. I'm always amazed at the amount of people who seem to completely miss the point that it is possible for a man to make decisions that avoid pregnancy and that if they don't want children they should bloody well take the responsibility of enacting these options.

user1488198315 · 31/03/2017 15:25

slug what on earth are you on about... I don't even know what 'PIV' sex is but the fact that you are saying that a man should have a vasectomy if he doesn't want to be a father and now you are saying that 'men have a habit of forcing themselves on women'... leaves me concerned.... for your mental wellbeing?!

We are talking about two consenting adults having sex...not planning for a baby.... not being sexually abused by a man... normal sex that both parties participate in....

Both adults will deal with the issue in their own way but you cannot force someone to do something they don't want to do and then expect them to just suck it up....
please read my comments and then read them again because

kittybiscuits · 31/03/2017 16:23

A man doesn't have to have a vasectomy if he doesn't want to be a father. He could also be celibate. Otherwise, intended or not, a baby can ensue and he will have to contribute to the cost of raising it.

Owllady · 31/03/2017 16:34

Can you afford to go through a solicitor rather than the CMS to set up an arrangement?
We dealt with the CSA and they were horrendous :( I'd imagine it's much easier long term to make your own arrangements.

JoolsSchmools · 31/03/2017 16:59

So user instead of your child's father contributing towards her upkeep you chose to allow him to pay minimal and instead used "taxpayers" money instead? Wow.

MotherofA · 31/03/2017 17:43

Hell yes !!! Then you can put some money aside the cheeky swine !

Original poster
bassey2389 · 31/03/2017 20:40

I appreciate all the feedback Confused

I haven't tried to force him to do anything at all, which is why it doesn't sit right to try to enforce maintenance. But as a mother I can't help but feel our child and his current and future wellbeing is more important.

I'm concerened about being able to tell our son in the future that while his father wasn't able to be there for him he had the decency to provide for him, if I just ignore it i'm worried it will paint his father in a very poor light and I don't think that's right?

OP posts:
BellaRed1 · 31/03/2017 20:52

@Jools You do know that single parents can get maintenance ON TOP of tax payers money with no deductions?????

As for the rest of the discussion I think some of you have read Complexkanes post wrong and indeed some of you have proved him right !

What he is implying I think is that you enter into any shared agreement wanting MORE than what the CMS calculator says because you usually know the CMS amounts before hand.

In calling the CMS amounts the legal monimimum you are saying it's NOT enough so to that end he does have a point.

The CMS itself says that the CMS amount is FULLY INCLUSIVE which is far from being a 'legal minimum'

It's up to you to budget with what you get.

I never got any maintenance and I managed just fine. My kids are now grown and I was a single parent since they were aged 7 and 2. They have contact with their Dad, always have done. He quit his job when we spilt then went on to have 3 other kids with his new gf.

Like the poster called user what I loved about not getting maintenance was the fact that I didn't have contact with my ex, didn't care what car he drove or how much he earned, had no agro from him or to him from me. It made life hugely peaceful and removed all amnosity. Everything is civil. We exchange Xmas cards. Hah!

Leaving aside NRP's who refuse to pay. One has to ask what is enough for you? Not satisfied with CMS you want more. Always more! If he does as you want and pays for half the school trips as well as maintenance where does your half come from, his maintenance perhaps? If so then indirectly he is paying for the entire trip! Maybe you use the tax credits you wouldn't get if you didn't have kids?

He does not have to pay for these extra's. No law in the land will punish him if he does not. But if he wishes to do so then good for him. If he doesn't want to do this just accept and move on not wage war. Bitterness does you more harm than it will ever do to them.

The more you get the bigger a cliff edge you go over when it all stops when the kids leave education/turn 20.

If a car legally costs £10k to buy would you pay £16k for it? I don't think so somehow.

The CMS is never going to be perfect choose what method is used.

One thing I feel strongly about is that NRP's on £73.10 should not be made to pay £7. To have to pay that from what is already a pittance is wrong. It is more punitive than meaningful.

Starlight2345 · 31/03/2017 21:58

I also think if you are raising a child..Most RP make sacrifices , quite often financially so yes I disgree that NRP should pay something on benefits or not..

My Ex has not working since I left him and that was over 8 years ago. So if he finds it difficult living without the full benefit he can get a job just like I had to do.

This is not about the parents this is about supporting the child. For most parents it is about been able to buy the shoes when they don't fit, paying for the sports club, for some women it pays for heat , food on the table.

My Ex might be on benefits.. he manages to find money for drugs..