Should I pursue Child Maintenance?

[bassey2389]

Having a crisis of conscience over whether I should go to CMS or not....

Unplanned pregnancy, the father tried to force me to have an termination but I just couldn't do it (also still illegal in NI) We had no contact after I told him I couldn't have a termination as he told me he was moving back to Australia.

When son was born contacted father (who still hadn't moved back to Australia) to encourage him to meet son. He confirmed he still didn't want anything to do with him and would consider putting some money aside for him when he got back to Australia.

8 months later father has still not moved away, is living with a new partner and has made no effort to make contact or contribute.

Just looking for some honest opinions on whether I should pursue child maintenance or pull up my big girl pants and keep at it alone?

Sometimes I wonder if it really IS all about the children.

If you and your ex both worked full time earning minimum wage he would have to pay you an amount per month from his minimum wage.

You would get tax credits and child tax credits also and family allowance on top of your minimum wage. He gets zilch. If he managed to get a flat or somewhere to stay and had to buy beds for the kids to stay over night considering you get more than him do you give him half towards the cost of the children's beds? Does he get any extra money for when he has the kids?

Never hear any talk of that kind of assistance for the NRP from the RP or the government do we????

There is an unfairness here. It is hard for NRP's on low incomes.

So it does beg the question if it is really about the kids or not at times.

It's a different matter entirely when the NRP earns good money but even then there should be limits. It's the low income NRP's I would be more concerned about. The government should give them some assistance too where it is needed proportionate to the contact they have perhaps.

What about low income families with both parents together on tax credits? You get the same as them, they dont get maintenance from anyone anywhere. They have a second adult to clothe and feed as well. They manage because they have to.

I am not against maintenance being paid at all but I am all for fairness.

Some men on good salaries pay amounts that practically covers the entire cost of the children and beyond but because it's done via CMS it is deemed 'minimum' and some RP's still want half of school trips, shoes etc etc

By the way under Universal Credit your ex will probably be forced to get a job or face sanctions so people will no longer be able to be on JSA for extended periods unless there are reasons they cannot work. This should improve maintenance payments for many lone parents.

Bellared- Many separated parents who do 50/50 solve the problem by coming up with solutions like one parent claims for one child and the other claiming for the second.
50/50 isn't the norm but I agree that benefits should be split between separated parents assuming that both are pulling their weight and parenting.

Op of course you should apply for maintenance. Ignore the misogynists. Unless of course you were poking holes in the guy's condoms he is equally responsible for the conception of your child and is as responsible as you are. I notice all of the "you chose to go ahead with the pregnancy" mob ignored the part of your OP where you explain that abortion is illegal in NI

This will increase when the money for a 3rd child is cut under these draconian cuts to benefits.

Sometimes the government is backwards in moving forwards !!

The result will be more lone parent families claiming benefits for kids that live separately from their siblings which doesn't achieve the governments aim of reducing the benefits bill and causes further social problems.

Crazy!!

I don't think the government want to have to pay NRP's anything at all so the only solution to me seems to be is that they don't pay any maintenance until they earn above a certain amount. the cut off point for a single person on benefits is £13,400. Perhaps they should be allowed to keep that and then pay maintenance on anything above that amount at a rate of say 20 -25% or something. That seems much fairer as the single person (NRP) gets what the law says they need to live on before paying maintenance. They have less reason to argue against paying maintenance if you get my drift.

The benefit system remember does NOT recognise the NRP as a parent.

There will never be a solution that makes both sides happy unless common sense, fairness and understanding can be reached between both parents.

Overall if maintenance payments in the eyes of NRP's on low incomes was fairer and more affordable for then more would pay it and pay it regularly.

Overall if maintenance payments in the eyes of NRP's on low incomes was fairer and more affordable for then more would pay it and pay it regularly

Do you really think it is only low income that try and avoid paying maintenance?How often do you read on here ex threatening to quit jobs to not pay maintenance, Self employed paying cash in hand to avoid paying..

You make a baby yes you should contribute..

One of the other reasons I claim CMS is so I know ex is alive. If he ever got a job and earned a meaningful amount then he certainly wouldn't be searching for me to pay maintenance.. I was married and my DS was very much planned by both of us by the way.. He just is too self centred to care about my ds/

Not once did I say that it was only those on low incomes that try to avoid paying. There are avoiders in EVERY income bracket. The less well off don't have much scope to hide or shift any of their income like the better off can as most are paid the PAYE way.

Everyone knows the worst avoiders are the self employed and those who can tweak their incomes.

The government is partially responsible for this as they set up these legal avoidance schemes that the wealthy and the self employed use.

I believe under Universal Credit the self employed will be treated as earning at least the minimum wage which may lead to them paying more. It's not brilliant but it is a start on correcting things perhaps.

Your ex under Universal Credit will most likely be forced to take a job or face sanctions so there is the chance you will get more at some point.

I am not anti maintenance at all.

Yes. If you make a baby you should contribute but only ONE of two parents if both are on low incomes gets government assistance with their contributions to their childrens upbringing.

I have never had a penny from my daughters father. Dd is now 20 and she has not seen him since she was one.
Tbh I didn't want anything off him as I disn't want any contact with him as he didn't want any contact with dd.
We have managed just fine. When she was little I worked 20 hours a week now I work full time plus bank shifts to support us. I love it that way

Here is an extract from a report that went to parliament recently -

23.           Focus is usually on the situation of the parent with care. However, problems can be more severe for the non-resident parent because of the way in which the state supports the two parents.
    

24.           The primary carer receives the same support as a “single parent” and gets the same support as a two adult household on the same income; no account is taken either of the share of care provided by the second parent or the child maintenance received. In contrast, the second parent is treated as a “single adult without children”; again, no account is taken of their share of care or the child maintenance paid. In consequence, the primary carer parent can be better off after separation than when the family were together whilst the second parent is much worse off (Davies 2015b).
    

The bit you are missing Bella is the low earning 2 parent family have 2 wages. So they don't have the same amount of money , they may get similar amounts of tax credits, but they are not earning a second wage. Plus they are paying for everything for the child.
The most my ex paid me was 40 a week, that didn't even cover the 30%of childcare I had to pay for.
He now pays me 150 a month, again just covering childcare, meanwhile he is free to work full time and earn a full time wage with no worries about childcare, while I have to fit my work around our child and do all the running around feeding clothing washing homework and everything else being an actual parent involves.
The csa does account for the care the '2nd' perent provides, maintenence is calculated on a sliding scale reduced for number of nights the child spends with nrp.
Belive me when I tell you I spend alot more than 12% of my gross income supporting my child.

Op. Go to the csa. He needs to pay for his child.

@jobvcareer

I don't seem to be able to quote from my mobile , either it's not working or I'm doing something wrong.

As regards the two parent thing. If both parents are working and between them earning let's say £30k they are unlikely to get tax credits but will get some child tax credit plus help with childcare costs.

If a single parent has a good job and earns £30k she will also still get some child tax credits and childcare costs. So if you compare like with like salary wise the single parent and the two parent family will get the same amount of benefits unless there are other benefits paid for disabilities etc

There are of course many variables.

As regards childcare according the the CMS it is your cost not his as it is done in your time. His maintenance is deemed fully inclusive and is to assist with your day to day costs for the child/children childcare is deemed a day to day cost for you. From what you say you appear to be getting 70% paid by the government and the rest by him by way of child maintenance. One could say that the child maintenance is doing exactly what it was intended to do, pay towards the child.

I worked too, part time gradually moving to full time. Sure it is hard but in some ways that is what single parenting is. I live in Northern Ireland , my ex lives in England. Kids didn't go over often but lots of telephone contact. My mum died when my eldest was a baby, father was elderly, sister lives in England, brothers had their own families. Summer holidays here are 9 weeks long for school kids. I didn't get any maintenance Somehow I did it lol. I'm pretty damn proud proud of myself actually.

I do know that the CSA/CMS takes contact into account.

The report I posted was written by someone else, not me. read the report again as she is not talking about CSA/CMS but the benefit system not taking contact into account.

Although she doesn't say it in her report she seemed to be suggesting that the tax credits etc are split proportionally between the parents based on contact or some kind of additional support for the NRP if needed because of low income. I personally don't agree with that as the government do not want yet another group of people on benefits. So the only solution in my eyes is to have maintenance payments reduced to an affordable amount for NRP's on low incomes. I do appreciate that not everyone will agree with that as the fully inclusive amount that you all consider the 'legal minimum' doesn't satisfy you.

Three of us so far on this thread managed just fine without maintenance and without demands for more on top of that. Each to their own I guess. what was ok for us doesn't have to be ok for others.

Fucking go for it.

A single parent shouldn't have to "manage" without money from the NRP, end of.

If the NRP and RP were still together, the NRP would be contributing a hell of a lot more.

Op, me not anyone else should simply have to "manage" in favour of the NRP, end of.

It's a discussion that goes in circles, it's a discussion I don't bend on, my ex was more than happy to have sex, he should be more than happy to pay for the outcome & that's our son.

What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another, in what, 5 days into being a mother & until my child sleeps through the night, there's no chance I can work!

Why should I have to practically kill my self through sleep deprivation just so my ex has an easier life??

No thanks....il be claiming every last penny!

Bella I struggle to have any sympathy for nrp when 90% of single parents are receiving not enough or no maintenance at all, that is from the gingerbread website.
So the 10% who are actually paying the legal minimum or above, boo hoo welcome to the world of parenting.
Not sure how the benifit system and how fair it is or not is anything to with single parents, everyone can claim and receive what they are entitled to.
As for reducing maintenance to an affordable amount, ok I wouldn't like to think of anyone living in poverty but single parents have to provide for the kids affordable or not, do I get a reduction on my food bill new shoes or anything else so make it affordable? No I don't but I find the money.
In what world would maintenance not be doing what it's intended and providing for the child? Even if it didn't go directly to the childminder, I spend alot more than 150 a month on food clothes and other things. You are feeding into the myth that single mums are running to the beauty salon with the child maintenance.

The benefit cap for a single person is £13.400. For families and single parents it is £20.000. (Outside London) Single parents get the allowance meant for TWO
adults. So you get what would be an amount for two adults although he is NOT there. So some of the costs of him NOT being there are therefore met by the government to help you with bills.

this is off course a huge help to single parents but whatever way you look at it there IS an unfairness there however it is accepted as it is of much help to you which is good. Really good actually. I got it too and appreciated hugely but I also acknowledge that no other benefit recipient gets a tax credit allowance for a partner who is not there.

I am not feeding into any myths and haven't even mentioned beauty salons or whatever. I never went to any of those for the record.

If you ex is working full time on minimum wage he would get nothing from the government by way of tax credits. Nothing towards the kids if he pays you and also has them some of the time and has costs associated with that. Nothing for a partner who is no longer there either. the amount he pays you is not decucted from his income for benefit claims.

The thing with food and clothes is that we all differ in what we spend although we may get similar amounts of money. Some people spend less than me on food per month and some spend twice more than I do on food for example. Some people are good at saving and some are not and all sorts of things like this. Some kids go to clubs and some do not as they prefer to be at home and play outdoors or whatever. Some pay for childcare others get help from grandparents and family. The list goes on.

There is no one size fits all. So some can manage without maintenance whilst others cannot. Getting maintenance is NOT wrong at all.

Maintenance can stop if your ex dies, becomes seriously ill and unable to work, goes on to have a bunch of other kids or simply stops when the kids leave education. In my opinion those who manage without it don't have to adjust as much when it stops. That's is just MY opinion.

Remember the days when maintenance was deducted from your benefits and all the hardships that caused when ex's refused to pay? Thankfully that no longer happens although there are still problems of course.

The csa or whatever it's called is the fairest it can be without costing a fortune. Of course it isn't fair to everyone but it is the fairest way for the most people. It does account for time spent with nrp as I said it's a sliding scale depending on number of nights.
What's not fair and in my opinion is a fucking scandal in this country is 90% of nrp not paying any or enough maintenance. 90% of nrp are men. So you wanna talk about unfair talk about that? Where is the outrage or the hand wringing about that.
In my own case my ex doesn't pay enough, unless he earns less than minimum wage which I'm sure he doesn't although I have no idea how much he earns. He has our son for an average of 8 hours a week, so 2 meals, hardly breaking the bank is it?
I think if he stops paying or drops dead I won't find it too much of an adjustment to cope without his measly 150 a month.

Indeed it is a scandal and has been all over Twitter/Facebook and in the papers for days now. Hopefully something is done very soon. The vast majority of the public is on your side here and rightly so.

Some of you must have sons though and some of them may become NRP's on low incomes do you want fairness for them or not? Do you want them living with you until they are 30 or 40 years old as they can't afford a place for themselves that is not a grotty room in a house share which wouldn't be suitable for having children stay over?

More and more men are moving into low paid or part time jobs as traditional well paid manufacturing jobs are disappearing and are being replaced by zero hours contracts, minimum wage jobs etc. I want my son to be able to pay and pay his rent and bills as well as maintenance and have a little left over. I would want him to have a home suitable for when the kids stay with him not just a room in a house share.

Would you be happy if all his ex's mates call him a barsteward if he's only paying what you deem the legal minimum and for his ex to regularly ask for extra money as well?

My son is married and if he ever splits up with his wife I will ensure that he pays maintenance for his child (there's another on the way) He is the kind of guy who would and he is a wonderful Dad who won't walk away from them as he knows that his own Dad has kept in contact with him despite our divorce and him living far away from his kids.

I do hope they don't split up though, naturally.

Maybe I am the only one who cares about low income fathers. So be it!

But I actually know it's not just me as a reports were given to parliament not so long ago on this very subject. It doesn't get the same attention as non paying NRP's does but it may get more attention as more NRP's begin paying and more are affected.

Fathers campaigns for more rights for themselves are starting to get noticed a little more too.

I once asked a reporter on twitter why no one did anything about it he replied that no one in power wants to get involved as it's complicated and messy so nothing gets done . It's a bit of a political hot potato!

I have gone without meals for my DS..So yes I really don't care about NRP.. If my DS has to come and live back with me to support what would be my grandchild so be it.

If he needs more money he finds extra work..

So many residential parents are living in poverty with there children that yes I will support them.. When men take there responsibility there children..

NRP have far more options to work and increase income. Most RP can't work nights, evenings, weekends without any support.

I care about the kids and the quality of life the kids get..

If you have known hardship yourself would you really accept it for others? I wouldn't. Whether they're male, female, children, elderly or disabled. All are entitled to a dignified life.

Sometimes men skip meals, as do the elderly and disabled. Couples also. An awful lot of men and women in their 50's struggle to find work and find it very hard to live on £73.10. It is not unique to single parents. That is the reality. It even happens to folk who don't claim benefits. Working poverty is rising. IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN TO ANYONE AT ALL. It's all set to get worse for anyone on benefits unfortunately. UC is pretty cruel.

I could possibly end up on JSA sometime in the next few years as where I work is subject to ongoing redundancies til 2019. Can't move in with parents as they are dead lol life on £73.10 a week would mean skipping a fair few meals from time to time. But I'll be out there looking for work. I like working.

I think it's best that NRP's have their own place so that they can have their children stay over. Quality time with both parents is what should be strived for. Mother's house may not have room for stay overs as she may have downsized to a smaller place when her kids left home. Mother might not even want her son there.

It's not always possible cos some NRP's don't want to know or some RP's deny any contact or that older kids don't want contact.

NRP's are entitled to a life as well, nothing extravagant if they have responsibilities, , a basic life at minimum as an independent adult. As he earns more or minimum wage rises or even gets another job he can pay you more and have a better quality of life for himself as well.

I'm not talking of a ridiculously high rental property but perhaps the cheapest 1 bed flat he can find where he can sleep on a sofa bed when the kids are there

The priority firstly has to be to get NRP's off JSA and paying maintenance from their wage. Universal credit will change a lot of that. As it will force them into work.

Universal credit is draconian. If your kids are aged 13 and over you have to earn at least the equivalent of 35 hrs on the minimum wage or get a second job or face sanctions. It is brutal. If you earn that or above you'll be left alone unless you lose your job or your income drops some reason like a change of hours by your employer.

But in some ways if it forces the NRP to earn a certain amount then you all will gain from that. This has to be good for your situation.

The disabled are having all their benefits snatched away and will also be forced to work if the DWP deem them fit to do so.

There are already many calls for Universal Credit to be scrapped as it's causing much hardship for all kinds of people. I'd like to see it scrapped. Sanctions are savage.

If more ex's had the children more often single parents could maybe do the odd extra evenings or Saturday every other week work or overtime too.

It's such a shame more parents don't work together but there are lots who do . It doesn't have to always be about money. 50/50 shared care can mean that money doesnt have to change hands. Even CMS says that. I'd like to see this encouraged but I also understand that it would never ever work for a large number too.