Divorcing very difficult ex with poss MH issues, please help me navigate regarding contact with children

[TeapotDictator]

Hello oh wise people

I've been separated for about 2 years from DCs dad. He has a history of mental instability and is very very controlling. The entire divorce process has been diabolical - despite the separation/divorce being instigated by him, he has wasted thousands upon thousands in legal fees through total and utter non-cooperation. He has tried to get me arrested, kicked out of the house, made groundless allegations to social services - all was finalised in the family courts last autumn and we came out, unsurprisingly, with a court order which reflected what I'd suggested was appropriate all along - the bog standard half the holidays and 3 nights EOW with midweek tea (to progress to midweek overnight when the children get a bit older).

I've never tried to keep him from the children, but was always the primary carer. He is in many ways a very good dad - in the sense that he is very loving. But he's not very well mentally, and can't cope with much. At the slightest provocation from me he stops seeing the children because he is too angry with me. Once I texted him asking why he was late, and apparently he was so stressed out by that he had to pull over in the car en route and sit there "waiting to calm down" for three hours with his phone switched off, before finally arriving. We are meant to sit and wait patiently (my two very young and excitable DC with their coats on) during all of this.

We've had two periods so far where he has been so stressed he stopped seeing them completely. This was pre-court order, and was because I refused to let him institute his own idea of contact. It was a totally untenable suggestion, but because I wouldn't do exactly what he wanted, he stopped seeing them. He told me afterwards he believed he was acting in the children's best interests because he believed that by agreeing to my EOW suggestion, he was setting the 'status quo' which would be held against him in court, so he believed not seeing them at all was better.

Sorry for the length of this post. Basically, the divorce finances are hotting up at the moment, which means there are going to be lots of things happening which upset/stress him out. Last weekend (ie. a week ago) was meant to be his weekend. We'd had a few cross words by email during the day on Friday, but nothing major. He didn't turn up. He then didn't communicate at all for 5 days, blocked me from calling him. I noticed activity on his FB account over the weekend and only due to that did I not feel the need to worry that something had happened. The next contact he made was on the Wednesday when he was meant to take the children for tea. He made no mention of the missing weekend (which was horrendous for the children and they are really distressed and confused) but simply said he was prepared to see them for his 1 hour to take them to tea on the condition that I did not discuss contact "past present or future". From past experience this kind of contact actually upsets the children more, particularly if at 'goodbye' time, he does not reassure them as to when they will be seeing him for sleepovers at his house. So I took a deep breath and wrote back saying that unless he could give me reassurance that he will be resuming normal contact as per the court order, I did not think the Weds tea was in their best interests. I need to know what is going on for their sake, and I cannot face more weekends ahead where the DC are just left sitting with their coats on on a Friday night with a no show Dad. I'm devastated for them.

Does anyone have any words of advice? I'd be so grateful. I find standing up to him tortuous - I have never met anybody more infuriating. He is so stubborn that he doesn't respond well at ALL to me putting any boundaries up, and would rather not see his children than "give in" to me. Another issue we have at the moment is half term - he is meant to be having them for the whole week (having let me down for his half of the previous half term - he asked for the whole week) but is refusing to respond to any questions on the subject. A week ago I said if I hadn't heard back in 7 days I'd have to assume he isn't having them and make other plans. I knew full well that if I gave that deadline he would just ignore it.

All help gratefully received! I'm at my wits end.

It's not at his house, it's at a cafe because he lives too far away. We've tried having it here, I don't have a problem with it, but I think it became too confusing for them.

put it all on the calendar - these are daddy's days, - but sometimes daddy cant make it. but that's ok. because there is another chance coming soon.

Well there isn't a clear idea because he clearly pays no heed tot he court order, having failed to turn up for a weekend and not even bothering to explain why this is. I have had not one word of explanation to suggest that it is a one off.

I like the calendar idea, I'll do that, thanks :)

you can withhold contact with "reasonable excuse" - for example after dd came home saying ex had assaulted her pulled her hair - i withheld contact (he then went into a severe depressive episode very much recorded by MH team so there was no question about it being reasonable)

be very careful.

"he might upset them by not telling when he will see the next" makes no sense because there is a contact order with s cheduled contact.

I'm waiting to hear back from my lawyer, will talk it through with him.

"he might upset them by not telling when he will see the next" makes no sense because there is a contact order with scheduled contact.

According to my lawyer, he is in breach of the court order and causing the children unnecessary upset.

ok so he is in breach by not turning up.

but you cant force him to turn up.

but that doesn't necessarily mean you can withhold contact next time.

you could ask for a variation saying as he doesn't turn up you want to reduce the contact as he clearly cannot manage it? and the current schedule is damaging as he doeskin turn up.

that wont help with the DC distress - you need to find another way to deal with the DC and support them to handle erratic contact with dad. teach them to handle the comings and goings with less anguish all round.

read "how to talk so kids will listen...." it has some useful ideas.

when ex wasnt turning up (at the time was supposed to be tuesdays and thursdays eveings judge suggested varying to less contact as "less is more" sometimes.

if ex gets one weekend a month would that work better? would he stick to it as it was less?

I think if that happened cest he would quite possibly stop seeing them completely. A huge part of his 'anger' is that he believes the whole thing is totally unjust and that he should have them 50:50. Unfortunately for him but fortunately for the children nobody agrees.

Posting has really helped me work through my feelings on this and I think I'm going to draft an email this evening which will say that I'll stick to the court order thus making the children available. I can then make a call on it in a couple of weeks' time, and also try to mitigate any emotional fall-out for the DC. It is hard to keep the goodbye brief as he clings on to them like a limpet and (IMO) exacerbating the problem, but I will do what I can.

document everything, keep good records;

stick to email contact. if he then tells you by email "well i wont see them then" that is his lookout [ and your dc but that's the way it is...]

the only way you can try and get the good byes brief is being a bit more forceful;
and perhaps going to a mediation type session with a family therapist - but would he listen to a third party?

Mediation won't work with a selfish, abusive arsehole.
Lots of good advice, OP - remember, he's an arsehole and there is no point hoping he will start behaving decently, because he won't. The best thing to do is to help the children regard him with amused disdain rather than being upset by his arseholery.

You're damn right about that SGB. We had two sessions of mediation, way back in the early days when I thought he might be reasonable. After the first session he complained that our aged 50-something, ex-barrister mediator "wasn't up to the job". So in our second session she was accompanied by one of the most experienced mediators in London, the man whose company it was, at no extra charge. After the session they emailed us a summary of what had been discussed during the session - he went through it with red text highlighting every single mistake he believed they had made and copied it into all of us. He's a bloody nightmare.

Re. the contact. If I said I was going to stick to the court order, and say he is meant to return the children at 6.30pm on Wednesdays. If he returns them at 7pm or whatever, what can I do? Or if he turns up at 6pm? They are so young that IMO it's really not worthwhile unless he turns up on time and returns them at 6.30/6.45pm... they are normally asleep by 7pm. In the past when we haven't been getting on he pisses around with these times too, once bringing them back at almost 8pm.

Thanks for all the advice so far. It's really helping.

Wow teapot
Just when you think you have the most akward ex someone comes along and blows your situation out of the water. As already discussed don't put them in their coats til his there don't communicate to ask if his coming and always have a plan B its annoying as you will never know when your free but if you give him a few months of that he will get the message its his contact not yours and if he wants to waste it being petty and behaving like a 5 year old so be it . You give him 10/15 mins then if his not there you go about your business. He just wants you sitting there waiting for him as soon as his realises your not playing the game he'll stop contact or comply. As someone told me you can't shield your children from their twit of a father they will have to find it out on their own .... Deep breath

I get a bit confused by everything I read so here are some of my thoughts ..Take what ever may be relevant and dump the rest.... My Ex was abusive and had MH problems

Was EX abusive as well? I did the freedom program..I think it might be useful for you as lot of what I looked at as MH issue was actually part of his emotional abuse.

Contact you say the children were waiting 3 hours ..I do suggest you put a time limit on how late he can be if he should be there by 5.30 then tell him ie if he hasn't arrived by 6.30 you will start there bedtime routine.

Are you paying for your sols? Becuase if you are he might welcome court but I am sure you don't....

I also found one of the most effective ways of dealing with my ex was not arguing with him ..My DS was available for contact EOW for 2 hours if he missed it he would wait till the following fortnight.. IF he was on the phone and abusive I would simply hang up. I ignored any email trying to goad me. I simply took no notice of his ranting... I explained the way it was as a fact no debate.

. I also worry one weekend you haven't given enough rope to hang himself. Document all dates. You will build a much stronger case. He could equally say he was in bed with Flu and couldn't move.

How do you think things will progress? Do you think he is interested in the children or want to get at you?

The other thing is kids are adaptable. If he only wants one hour a week then just let him... If he doesn't after a period of time. get your sols to write a letter as he is no longer wanting weekends so it is no longer available.

In my expereince as well. I found it easier to detach from my Ex by simply making EOW available but no push or encouragement.. If he didn't turn up that was it..

He stopped contact for a while..Then a few months later decided to restart. I spoke to my Sols when he stopped..He advised me to say nothing as the longer no contact the better.

If he returns them late let it go.
They can cope one weekday night.

Focus on making them available as per order and documenting times and when he doesn't turn up. Be bright breezy cheerful. .

Quick handovers.

As was said kids will adapt and will take cue from you.

Remember you can support your children, you can look after yourself but you cannot make him a reasonable man...he is not and probably never will be reasonable so don;t concentrate on him, concentrate on you and your DC. Be firm, reliable and fair (that is normal fair not bending over backwards so far that you break "fair").

If you can keep your mind free of having to sort hiim out (which you will never do) you will be a better person, a better mum and a better friend. your life will grow instead of shrinking down to the smallest circle of him and his needs/demands.

Do the freedom programme if you can...it will help.

You can only change the things you can change...that is not him

Thanks. I will look into the Freedom programme again. I've had dealings with Solace before (an offshoot of WA I think) and they were really helpful. I started, but didn't finish, attending a weekly group they offered. It's been such a nightmare because from the day we separated, he has been accusing me of domestic violence and abuse, and definitely considers himself the victim in our set up. He has created this situation where any perceived 'aggression' by me (even so much as a text message saying "why are you late?" - he considers this aggression) makes him so stressed that he does things like not turn up to see the children. He has told me that he needs beta blockers to 'deal with me'. It feels as though I am not allowed to assert myself at all, to express dissatisfaction with anything he does at all.

I've drafted an email to send to his lawyer and him this morning. It sets out that I will make the children available for the times set out in the court order but also specifies that if he doesn't turn up by X time, I will assume he is not coming. Our court order is already very specific, but doesn't set out what to do if he doesn't come. So eg. I have said if he doesn't turn up by 5.45pm on a Wednesday, it's not worth him coming (it takes at least 90 minutes for him to take the children to and from a cafe for tea). He abuses every loophole he can find, so I'm trying to close them down.

As part of this email I have stuck to my guns and said that I am assuming he is not having them at all for half-term. As I said before, he had said he wanted them for the entire half-term (because he let me down at the last minute and didn't have them at all for the Autumn half term). So about 2-3 weeks ago I asked what he wanted to do. No answer. So I asked him to let me know by 24th January otherwise I'd assume he didn't want them at all. I can't live like this, unable to make plans for the children during their holidays.

Do you have a lawyer? If you do the letter should go from him/her to his lawyer then via them to him...keep your distance. You don't have to copy him in even if you are self representing and thus communicate directly with his lawyer. If you do have a lawyer yourself it would be best not to blur the boundaries, and he/she willneed to know what you have said.

You have a court order. no more needs to be said...he doesn't get extra if he misses, he just has what the order says. This way you stand back from it all get get to live your life. make plans for the half of half term that is for you and the children, have a back up for when if he does not take up his half.

I promise you will feel better and cope better if the drama goes.

He might even be a better dad if it's not all about you and him.

yes it is a real pain.

one useful thing i was told - his stress his problem to deal with.

his anger his problem. his betablockers? well so what! if that's his way to handle stress that is his choice. is it reasonable to ask "are you running late?" "is there a problem"? yes - it's reasonable. his problem to deal with.

yes it does impact you and dc in a way but that is for you to handle and deal with and find a way to live with....

it is far from logical - you make me so stressed angry i cant come see my children... have this from ex too!

PS he is following a very very familiar script. Keep records. make your children available for the court ordered times (subtly...no coats on til he arrives) put it all on the calendar. Make plans for the time which is "yours" and have relaxing fun times together if he does not turn up for his time.

I promise you will manage this.

plans for "his" time though should not be made by you (except in your head) no bookings, no arrangements.You have to comply with the court order...or you need to make plans go back to court to challenge it. I KNOW it is not fair that you can;t make him do his bit...but you can't and if this is who he is then your DC will be finding that out sooner or later and will cope better if you are not covering up for him. They need to know that you are honest and reliable, as their dad is not.

Oh Teapot! You could be writing about my DC father. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It seems some men throw the dummy out of the pram when thing don't go there way.

You're absolutely right to be asking him to stick to a routine. I know my little one gets so confused and upset when her father takes the huff and doesn't show up. We deal with the tears.

I really hope it gets better for you and he realises he is cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Thanks all. Email sent to his lawyer via me - couldn't get hold of my lawyer and frankly I'm probably bottom of his list of priorities right now as I'm completely unable to pay my bills! So from my POV, he can see them tomorrow for his afternoon tea contact. He is also meant to have Skype with them twice a week, although he's totally stopped having that since we fell out too.

I feel calmer already having made that change, so thanks to you all for your advice. I may keep posting because knowing him, he'll still manage to justify not seeing the children and be able to twist it into being my fault that that's the case.

I'm not going to do the calendar idea until he resumes some sort of regular contact. I don't want to highlight to the children the fact that he's letting them down until I'm sure it's a random thing rather than an ongoing thing. I don't think I'll mention contact tomorrow at all, and will see if he turns up.

well done.

When he gets in your head can you imagine being in a bubble and what he says bouncing off it?...you know what to do, you know what is the right thing for you and DC. have confidence to stand your ground and allow him to be him.

My god. Well, I've spoken to my lawyer this evening. He apologised for being in back to back meetings all day and told me he received an essay email from H last night. He's forwarded it to me. It's unbelievable. It's almost unreadable, it's so turgid and ridiculously detailed - It's pages long. He is turning the court order round and having a massive go at ME for refusing to do the transport of the children when the court order states that he is to do the transport. He claims that my refusal to do the transport means that I am frustrating contact with the children. He is threatening to go to court for a variation and wants us to consent.

My lawyer has written back a very short reply saying we look forward to receiving a court date, if he makes his application, but that we put him on notice that we will be claiming wasted costs for attending. Lawyer says that he is trying to appeal the order by the back door, but that in the meantime he should be abiding by it. Feel very good that I sent my email earlier, I will continue to make the children available as per the court order and do no more than that.