I'm terrified he's going to keep her! please help :(

[beclou94]

Hello. I didn't really know where to write this, but I desperately need advice. Today I dropped my daughter off for her weekend, with her dad and his family. She hates going there, cries at the mention of it, but eventually she went off and I left. When I got home, we had a big argument about his access. Basically, I'm fed up because he's always changing times we've agreed on, so he can have her longer. She's meant to be back at 3 on Sunday, he has said that isn't good enough, and that she'll be back at 5 no matter what I say. Is there anything I can do? I'm terrified he won't bring her back at all, he's evil and I don't trust him at all. He's on her birth cert. As we did get on as friends, when Amelia was born. We were just a fling, but then I fell pregnant. He now has his own family, and I've dealt with nothing but abuse etc for over 2 years, from him and his partner.

My next question is, if I wanted to, could I tell him on Sunday (when he eventually brings her back :( ) that I want a court order, so there's no bending rules - and that until then, he won't be seeing her.

I'm at my wits end with it all, all he ever does is bring me down. He thinks he rules the roost, and I've had enough of his rudeness towards me, and his bad attitude. As I said before, my daughter never wants to see him!

Thanks in advance for any replies. I don't want abuse of any kind. I have been more than fair for the past few years, I've done him favours, given him more time for things - and still had abuse back! I want a court order, so he can no longer bend the rules. I will make it clear, that I do not want to keep him from her - I just want rules in place before he sees her again.

What are the current arrangements and how long have they been in place? BOth parents have Parental Responsibility so living and contact arrangements need to be agreed. IF no agreement can be reached either parent can apply to court for an order to regulate PR.

The importance courts attach to contact shouldn't be underestimated. Even if a parent's behaviour leaves much to be desired by most people's standards the effects of the behaviour is weighed up against the harm children suffer when they don't have a meaningful relationship with the other parent.

HOwever an order isn't a particularly good way to resolve family disputes because it tends to leave parents feeling resentful and resistant so future problems can't be resolved constructively. In most circumstances parents are expected to at least attend a Mediation Information & Assessment Meeting to find out about mediation and whether it is appropriate in their particular circumstances before the court will hear a case.

It isn't at all uncommon l for children from about the age of 18 months to have separation anxiety when leaving their main carer(s). FOr example children may be appear to be distressed at nursery or playgroup when separating from a parent only to settle down after 10 or 15 minutes or so. That is normal behaviour for children at that developmental stage. Unfortunately separated parents often interpret the behaviour wrongly. Parents with the majority of care see it as evidence that the other parent is truly awful and the child doesn't like them therefore contact should be reduced. The parent with the minority of care interprets the behaviour as evidence that the parent with care isn't supporting contact and the child is being turned against them. There is little more damaging to children in the long term than the conflict between parents.

What the child really needs is for the parents to communicate effectively to resolve problems positively. Inflexible arrangements are a burden for children because their time "belongs" to separated parents when really childhood should belong to the children.

Beclou when you say It scares me because he always mentions how he would have her full time in a heartbeat I feel so sad because that is the kind of thing my friend's husband would have said. (My friend who divorced her husband after a really long, painful relationship which involved him putting her down, some violence and lots of unhappiness, and I think he was pretty controlling too, in subtle ways and other ways too.)

I do not know about your relationship with this man but I know you say you do not trust him. Why is that? If you can say without outing yourself?

My friend and her husband had a very dysfunctional marriage and he wanted to be with his children all the time, I think it was just over the top. When they split up it was hard for him but he was not a good influence to be around all the time and, of course, my friend's children needed their mum, needed her a lot. He was trying to push her out of their lives. They have now worked out the contact arrangements and the children see dad at fixed times (I am pretty sure) but live with mum most of the time. When they split up her children were a lot older than your daughter.

Of course this is my friend, and not you, I am just explaining what experiences I have of this kind of thing, I do not have personal experience of it.

IMVHO Mums are very important. For my friend, she was the main carer just as you are for your little one. All things being equal I think mums and dads are very important. But in your case this dad has shown himself to be very controlling and he is not the main carer. You are you and you need to look out for what is best for your daughter.

So whatever your daughter's father feels he would or would not like, presumably you know you are the best person for her.

Of course, I am basing this on what you have said, and I have said before we only have your side of the story so that is what is influencing my post!

So look after her and look after you. And please be aware that if you have been in a controlling and abusive relationship with this man for some time (either a romantic relationship at one time and now as parents of a child together) you may have experienced some degree of low self esteem. You need to get strong for you and for her, really quickly, remember just how important you are for this little girl. Just because her father wants something or thinks he might be able to look after a toddler all the time, doesn't mean he can or should.

I would be very worried about talking to him one to one alone if he has a history of control.

I am sorry I can't offer advice on what you should do but I can say to avoid situations where you are in danger of being manipulated or bullied by this man.

Can I just ask, you said When I got home, we had a big argument about his access. (This was after your daughter had been dropped at his house.) Did you call him or did he call you? And if you called why? I am just trying to understand the dynamics of your relationship.

I am sorry op that you are so scared and it must be difficult and draining to live like this.

All I can say to reassure you is that the courts don't care what parents 'want'. He may 'want' to be her primary carer but if he tried to keep her against your wishes, you take him to court immediately and the court will be interested in what arrangements best meet your daughter's needs. He isn't her primary carer, you are. Unless there are serious objections to your ability to meet her needs, that is the arrangement that should continue as it is what she is used to and comfortable with.

I agree with greyhound - probably another good way of tackling this problem is to get some help and support with your self esteem so you can feel more confident about dealing with him and not letting his attempts to control undermine or upset you.

I understand your frustration. It appears that we are not allowed to say that we are concerned for our children when they are with their dads. Just because they were there at conception doesn't mean that they can care for the child.

I feel like we are vilified if we voice our concerns. You must not get in the way of the relationship of the father and child. Well, how about if the father if a domestically abusive bully who videos young girls from the bedroom window, visits prostitutes and hooks up with various different women on the internet for casual sex. Would you like your children to be in the house while this is going on?

Even if you concerns are not as shocking as this they are still your concerns and you opinion should matter. However, I am coming to the conclusion that the mother doesn't get heard.

Of course the mother gets heard. the father gets heard.

But it isn't about what the adults want. Sadly, there are many mothers AND fathers who let their hatred and bitterness towards each other get in the way of what their children need and want.

the law is quite simple; the child's best interests are the paramount concern. There is a presumption that the child's best interests are met by a healthy relationship with both the adults who provided DNA to create the child. This is important for a child's sense of identity and self esteem.

of course, if a father is violent or abusive that presumption can be rebutted. But it can never be as simple as saying that one adult's 'opinion' of another can be enough to end or interrrupt a child's relationship with his parents. You have to have clear evidence and clear grounds. Which is why I have been asking op to think clearly about what the problem is here.

Thank you again for all your replies. I'm meeting him today to talk, my mum is going to have DD. :) I'm very nervous! I know I need to be stern with him, but not insulting or aggressive. I'm going to hear what he has to say first, then go from there. However, we have done this so many times before, and still nothing has changed. I wrote a list last night of all the things I want to talk to him about. I am her primary career, yes. I don't do drugs, drink or have any problems of that kind - neither does my partner. I'm so done with him controlling my life, and doing whatever the hell he wants to do when it comes to the access rules we set! I have a lot of support thankfully, my friends and family see how distressing it is at times. I appreciate what you've said about separation anxiety, but she's fine when it comes to going to playschool, doesn't even cry! If it ends badly today, I won't shout back, I'll walk away and then start the legal proceedings. I want us to come to a conclusion without legal action, but I am doubtful.

Personally I would advise against meeting him on your own.
However, if you must, at least meet in a public place.
Can you arrange for a friend or family member to be near by?

I just can't live in fear of him and his partner anymore, the worst thing is they know they intimidate me, so they continue to bully me into getting what they want. I've not left the house in fear of bumping into them before now. There's many problems, the list is endless :( I just want him to know he can't walk all over me anymore, and that we need to come to a fair agreement that's good for LO.

My best friend is coming with me, she will stay near by whilst we talk. :)

How do I go about creating a solicitors letter,

?*

Beclou good luck, please keep us informed if you wish to, we are routing for you!

I do not know about the solicitors letter but if it were me I would copy all the relevant bits of this thread, and start with that. Show it to trusted and wise friend who can be impartial before sending it.

Please keep asking for advice if you wish to, from wiser heads than mine.

PLEASE build up your self esteem. You should not be a prisoner in your own home. He is living rent free in your head EVICT HIM!

It scares me because he always mentions how he would have her full time in a heartbeat
thing is, isn't that what many parents would say but without the threat of keeping the child? Reality is that no separated parents want to be giving up 50% of the time with their child to the other parent (with whom they no longer wish to engage).

I think there is often a real danger of feelings of the parents getting in the way of what is in the best interests of the child. We see our children as upset when going to the other parent's house and thus we assume that they don't like it there, in fact deep down there are parents who would like to think they don't like it there because if they hate the other parent then chances are the child will and so on.

Talk of evil and a child growing up to hate someone are incredibly unhelpful and emotive and IMO have a lot more to do with feelings of adults rather than children. It's always worth bearing in mind that a person is often a different partner than parent iyswim.

My xh parents entirely differently to me and there are many aspects of his parenting I don't agree with, and I have no doubt he feels the same about me. But that doesn't make either of us wrong it just makes us different.

Op it sounds as if your relationship with your ex has broken down but you need to pick your battles IMO. So agreeing set days is one thing, sticking to an absolute rigid time schedule is quite another. As time goes on and your dd grows up things will change, and they will do so a lot quicker than you could anticipate. My ten yo ds was picked up on time at 5:00 promptly on his dad's access nights, now he's twelve and all I ask is for a relative time of what to expect him back (he lives five minutes away so now makes his way here himself).

In a year or so your dd will have parties and things to consider, and you will be the one seeking flexibility, and then she will start school, and then it'll be secondary and she'll be old enough to make her own decisions. Don't quibble about an hour or two, be glad he gives you a time so if he says 5:00 say fine, if it's later than that then query it but try to agree a time rather than you being the one to be dictating.

Beclou, if you choose to involve a solicitor, following discussion with you, they will be able to send a letter to your dd's f, laying out clear a and fair contact agreement. It can include dates and times (and request that he desists from altering these times on a whim) and also address any concerns you have about her f's care of her, such as her personal hygiene (you mentioned soreness earlier?).

It can also address his behaviour towards you or ask (if appropriate) that any and all further communication regarding contact, be made through your solicitor).

It is in no way a legally binding document but if your dd's f does abandon or ignore the terms laid out, you would involve your solicitor and your next step would be at their advice.

In cases where a mother has been bullied or feels scared, as you do, having this third party involved in communications, limits the f's ability and opportunity to mess around, harass and scare. It also creates a clear record of your attempt to maintain good, regular contact between your did and her f.

How do I go about doing that Pro? I don't want to stop his contact, but at the minute I'm feeling terrified that he might not return her one day - do I keep taking the risk of him having her? Or do I stop visitation until I feel a little more secure that she will always be brought home? :(

Beclou why do you fear this, has he threatened it before or said or done anything to make you think he will not return her? I really think you need to speak to a professional in real life to talk through these things as you may not be able to tell us all the full story.

Beclou, make an appointment with a solicitor who specialises in child and family law and take it from there.

Only suspend contact following legal advice. Please do seek legal advice! You should be able to secure an appointment within days and I do believe, given your fears, a qualified professional is best placed to advise you.

For what it's worth, when someone I know of told cafcass that he wanted full custody (with no good reason) of the dc, it substantially damaged the courts view of him. It led them to believe the f had little or no understanding of the child's needs or consideration of their preferences, wrt their relationship with their mother and the importance of the stability of their home life.

He cannot just take your child, legally speaking. Realistically, he could fail to return her and a solicitor is a good first step in creating safe and clear boundaries to help prevent that.

We had a big talk tonight. I literally told him everything. He was more understanding than I thought he would be, so that surprised me. He said he's going to make sure he's getting her back on time, as he didn't think about the fact it messes up her routine. I stood my ground on everything, and made it clear that if stuff didn't start getting better - I'd be taking things further! I've said I want his partner to keep out of any future disagreements we may have, as with respect, it's none of her business! My partner will always bite his tongue, out of respect for me and Amelia. He said he'd never be as unfair as to just take her from me, so I feel a little more reassured about that now. I'm going to see how the next couple of weeks go, then go from there.

He said he didn't realise how I was feeling, and how much it was all getting me down until today. I'm hoping I've got somewhere! Thanks again for all your advice :) x

He also said he'd like to get to know me more, as friends. Because we only slept together once, and it was a very quick fling, we just don't know each other! We both agreed that's what makes things difficult. Fingers crossed :)

Well this sounds like progress so fingers crossed things continue to improve

That's really positive. If you can get good communication going then you will all benefit. Be clear about your boundaries. I wouldn't rush into trying to be 'friends' - I would establish good communication and trust first.

If you can develop a friendly relationship, that would be great for your child, but you were expressing very strong negative views about him earlier on. So I would say you both need to move slowly and cautiously and respect each other as parents first. Also, if he is excessively controlling, it could cause problems.

But I don't want to be negative! it is great that you have been able to talk to him and he sounds like he has listened.

Oh yes, I agree. Slow and steady. I need to gain trust with him, that's my biggest problem. I have a lot of trust issues, but I'm going to try my best, as long as he does too! I've made it clear there's going to be boundaries set in place, and that he's not to break access times again, because they were set for a reason. I'm very glad we spoke, I just hope it will get better now.

wow Beclou fabulous.