I'm terrified he's going to keep her! please help :(

[beclou94]

Hello. I didn't really know where to write this, but I desperately need advice. Today I dropped my daughter off for her weekend, with her dad and his family. She hates going there, cries at the mention of it, but eventually she went off and I left. When I got home, we had a big argument about his access. Basically, I'm fed up because he's always changing times we've agreed on, so he can have her longer. She's meant to be back at 3 on Sunday, he has said that isn't good enough, and that she'll be back at 5 no matter what I say. Is there anything I can do? I'm terrified he won't bring her back at all, he's evil and I don't trust him at all. He's on her birth cert. As we did get on as friends, when Amelia was born. We were just a fling, but then I fell pregnant. He now has his own family, and I've dealt with nothing but abuse etc for over 2 years, from him and his partner.

My next question is, if I wanted to, could I tell him on Sunday (when he eventually brings her back :( ) that I want a court order, so there's no bending rules - and that until then, he won't be seeing her.

I'm at my wits end with it all, all he ever does is bring me down. He thinks he rules the roost, and I've had enough of his rudeness towards me, and his bad attitude. As I said before, my daughter never wants to see him!

Thanks in advance for any replies. I don't want abuse of any kind. I have been more than fair for the past few years, I've done him favours, given him more time for things - and still had abuse back! I want a court order, so he can no longer bend the rules. I will make it clear, that I do not want to keep him from her - I just want rules in place before he sees her again.

Talking to your ex as a normal, compassionate human being isn't going to work because he isn't one. You have to realise this first. Then work out how to minimise the damage. You don't get to decide whether he is in your life or not unfortunately. You will just have to deal with it and use your intelligence not emotion to work out how.

I have had 15 years experience in a professional capacity.

I have just had to appeal against an order for indirect contact only. I lost. My experience is that courts will make orders depriving a father of contact throughout a child's minority on the assumption that indirect contact 'keeps the doors open'. It doesn't.

I certainly don't agree that courts don't take violent abusive men seriously. In my experience they certainly do.

But what doesn't help is people using extremely strong words like 'evil' when in fact they probably mean something else. Waters get muddied, no one wins.

I know he's in my life for good, pretty much. I am now trying to find a way to minimalize the stress, and make everyone happy. I'm fed up of arguing, but we just frustrate each other so much. It sucks. :(

Keep your contact with him to the absolute minimum.

Don't respond to his attempts to mess you around or hurt you.
Let him do what he wants for a while, he'll soon get bored of not getting a reaction.

Your daughter will be ok. When she's a grown up she'll probably hate him.

When she's a grown up she'll probably hate him.

I hope for her sake she does not. This isn't some random bloke off the streets - this man is half her genetic identity. If she hates him, what does that say about how she feels about herself?

This talk of evil and 'hating' is really sad.

All I can say is to repeat - if you think she is being harmed or at risk of harm in his care, do something. If this is more about you and he having very different styles of parenting and him being a rude mannerless oik, then I hope you can find another way then the legal route to deal with it.

I don't want her to hate him, I'd never influence that. She will grow to make her own mind up about him, and his family. I just want some security, so I know he can't just take her, and keep her. The thought of that is what terrifies me! :( wouldn't it you?

Even without a court order in place, he can't 'just take her' so please try not to be too frightened. I know its easy for me to say. But if he did refuse to return her from contact you could make an emergency application to court. Unless he had some pretty strong grounds for pulling this kind of trick - you are a drug addict for e.g. - the courts will be very unimpressed with him.

beclou94 - I didn't think you would influence her hating him, or that you'd want it. But I think if he is as horrible as you say then one day she will realise that.

Spero - lots of people grow up with horrible parents in their lives, I think you might be a little niave. Sometimes children have to accept this as adults and just protect themselves.

Most parents are scared for their children most of the time. I used to be scared when I dropped dd off at nursery, at school, whenever she wasn't in sight basically. I think this fear gets less as they get older. He probably wants less contact with her than you think he does, that is often the case.

Court orders are expensive and it is unlikely they will change the behaviour of your ex.

I am quite happy for you to disagree with me. But calling me 'naive' is just irritating. Any naivety I once had I lost a long, long time ago.

Spero - We will just agree to disagree, based on different life experiences no doubt, naive isn't really an insult, I wish I could see the good in men more, my experiences have changed who I am and how I see relationships. I didn't intend to irritate you.

beclou - I only know how I have dealt with a similar situation to yours and what worked and what didn't. But everyone is different and you will have to find what works best for you. But try not to worry and don't play into his hands.

And, over the years you are going to have to leave your daughter with lots of people you don't yet trust (mainly because you don't know them), teachers, tutors, nursery staff, childminders etc etc and you just have to get used to it and hope they take good care. And the fear gets a little less each time she comes back to you.

I also agree that using the word evil to describe someone is not productive, unless he has killed people or something. To be honest, he probably doesnt hold a high opinion of you either. From your posts you just seem to rub each other the wrong way.

He wont be able to just keep your daughter. I think at worst he would be able to get 50:50 contact. From your OP he only has weekend contact or one weekend every two weeks. I would try to put muyself in his shoes. Would you be happy if you had your daughter for the amount of time her currently has?

He obviously loves her and misses her. I would try and be a bit more flexible and try and come to a resolution you both agree to.

Tbf to op it is not evil to have control issues if it is yourself and your own life you are trying to control but it is not good if you try to control others. Controlling behaviour is the defining feature of DA.
Op has said he would control her life if he could and has made it hell over last few years. That is pretty malevolent.

Obviously we are only getting OPs side of story but at the very least the situation sounds difficult, stressful and wearing.

mediation sounds like a sensible first port of call. But also look into getting a residency order if you really think it is likely he will nit return dd.

Hi beclou94 I have no advice to give as I have not been in this situation myself. I just wanted to say that I hope things resolve in time and get better.

I noticed one item that no one commented on and that was your partner dropped her off. It is clear you both have new partners and I wonder if in some ways the partners are adding to the stress. You are having to deal with his partner (which you do not like as you say she is bullying) and your partner dropped your daughter off at his house. Then there was a discussion of some sort (by phone/text/email?) between you and your child's father. Can I ask if he called you or you called him?

My friend had a very acrimonious end to her relationship and resumed contact after a very dramatic break up. At first it was hard, I think, but as time when on it has got better.

Do you have any kind of 'contact' book? Or email system? By this I mean things you could pass on practically about your daughter which would enable you to do this without getting into too much verbal conflict. This could be very business like and could just be things like.

"Just to let you know DD has had some nappy rash and there is some Sudacreme in the change bag to help with this." Etc.

Does anyone who has been in a similar situation think this may help?

Cross posted with Mindlurky and totally agree. Of course we only have one side but he does sound very unpleasant and if you have to 'live' in connection (and sharing someone so personal) with a controlling person then it must be very hard.

Fwiw op my ex who is controlling does this kind of thing. He sees them irregularly, turns up late, brings them back late etc. (Although i have no fear he will keep them as he cba) if he is late too often, I go out. If he doesn't make arrangements to see them I don't chase him. If he is late I don't sweat it. If he tries to change to a day / time that does not suit i say no. No discussion no debate just no. If he sulks and refuses to see them next wk I let him sulk.

It makes for frustrating a irregular contact. The dcs have learnt to expect little of him but at least he cannot use contact as a form of control.

He has to realise his contact with his kids is his to sort out.

I would go to mediation or court if i thought it would make a blind bit of difference but it won't.

I don't think dds will grow up to hate him but I suspect they will find him a massive disappointment. Most people do.

I have two choices and only two, I let him get to me or I don't. It was a hard lesson to learn but a worthwhile one. OnceI stopped letting him get to me he stopped pissing about nearly so much as there is no longer any sport for him.

mindlurky I can feel a namechange coming on.

ooopse, sorry minklundy name mistake!

I like it though. I like it.

As I say, beclou94, we only have your view on things but from what you say he wants to control you and he is. He has you rattled, frustrated and he has you scared he will take her - is this based on anything he has said or done or just your fears? Being in your position, I think our fears are understandable, not necessarily realistic but understandable. Because you are sharing a special person with someone you do not like or care for. That must be hard. Others do it but you are quite young and it sounds like you and this man have little history, no basis for friendship or understanding to make life easier! You do have my sympathy for this situation.

Your dd will probably grow up to know exactly what her dad is like, for good or ill, it is just a fact.

I agree with whoever said not to pass on your fears about this to your child's father as he will only play on this.

I think it would be useful to keep a record (yourself, not to share with him) or any concerns and issues, any incidence of bullying by him or his partner.

Just so you know I am mum to a birth dd aged 10 and an adopted ds aged 4. I have been quite a protect smother mother at times in the past and I am now more relaxed but when dd was two I was very much absorbed in her. I did even have counselling due to fertility issues (when she was about four) because we were not able to have another child at the time. I was finding it very hard to discipline dd at all because my concerns about fertility were issues for me. I got free counselling on the NHS and it was very helpful. Don't want to worry you about fertility I am a LOT older than you and that was a contributory fact in my fertility issues.

My heart goes out to you and I would also, and this is just my personal opinion (very humbly offered) say that if you can access any support in the form of counselling then this would be very useful for you. This is because it is clear to me that this has all been very stressful to you and has made you feel unhappy at a time when you could be happy (lovely child, new partner). I would say that one thing that would really help you would be to be able to deal with your child's father and his partner in a professional/matter of fact way and to ensure they do not bully you or push you around. To be assertive and polite, not aggressive, and to make sure he does not get a feeling he is controlling you! The more he is able to see he cannot control and upset you, I think the less he will try and do it. He will know he is onto a hiding for nothing!

In your language with your child's father, and his partner if you need to speak to her, be clear, polite -so they have no excuse for being rude to you. In fact being polite can sometimes model for others how to behave or can wind them up a lot! But either way you can conduct yourself in a polite and sensible way!

Good luck.

Family courts do bar access to fathers where necessary. It can take an incredible length of time and number of expert consultants and hearings to reach this conclusion but it does indeed happen. No court would deny contact without good reason, hence the longevity and depth of the fact finding which can lead to this decision.

OP, please keep a complete log, as of now, regarding your dds contact and its effect upon her wellbeing, health and also anything which passes between you and her f. If you do end up in court, you and they will find this record very useful.

I do agree that court is best avoided while your child's best interests can be protected without a court order. Ideally, you do need to explore this possibility first, however, should you have serious concerns about your child's health and physical or emotional wellbeing, involve a solicitor immediately.

If they feel your concerns warrant it, they may well advise you to suspend contact pending a court application by the father. Having said that, do not suspend contact without legal advice or evidence of harm - the courts will not look kindly upon anything they could remotely perceive as irrational. Equally, they will not look kindly upon someone who knowingly places her child at risk. Only you and a good solicitor will know where on the spectrum your concerns lay.

If you feel you need something more concrete in place than your current agreement and your child is not at risk, then a well worded solicitors letter, laying out a written agreement and offering him the opportunoty to adhere to it prior to any action being taken, is a good place to start.

Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice. I'm going to start keeping a log. :) he said he will talk to me, just me and him on Sunday. I don't want to argue, so does anyone know how I can keep things calm? I want to get my point and feelings across, without getting too frustrated/aggressive. It scares me because he always mentions how he would have her full time in a heartbeat, so what if he decides he can and he will? :( I don't want him to just take her from me.

don't meet him on your own.

where will dd be?

or only meet him in a very public place eg cafe.

have list of points written down. eg time top come back on sundays - three pm. dont stray from them.
if he insults you; say "I am not going to continue this conversation in this way" and walk out.

he wont have her full time unless there is good reason eg you have a serious problem with drugs, alcohol etc. do you? does your partner?

if you dont, then no need to worry - most you/he could expect is fifty fifty share if that would work for dd.

beclou, given his bullying/ controlling behaviour towards you in the past and his tendency to renege on agreements, I would say 'no, thank you' and proceed immidiately to a solicitors letter, laying out clear and fair expectations.

From what I understand, you have tried discussion before. Each time you have a f2f with him which goes wrong, it is damaging to the process of resolution.

In your shoes, a solicitors letter as described above would be my next step.

This doesn't mean you are starting court proceedings, it does mean you, on behalf of your dd, can regain some control over what is happening and going to happen.