I'm terrified he's going to keep her! please help :(

[beclou94]

Hello. I didn't really know where to write this, but I desperately need advice. Today I dropped my daughter off for her weekend, with her dad and his family. She hates going there, cries at the mention of it, but eventually she went off and I left. When I got home, we had a big argument about his access. Basically, I'm fed up because he's always changing times we've agreed on, so he can have her longer. She's meant to be back at 3 on Sunday, he has said that isn't good enough, and that she'll be back at 5 no matter what I say. Is there anything I can do? I'm terrified he won't bring her back at all, he's evil and I don't trust him at all. He's on her birth cert. As we did get on as friends, when Amelia was born. We were just a fling, but then I fell pregnant. He now has his own family, and I've dealt with nothing but abuse etc for over 2 years, from him and his partner.

My next question is, if I wanted to, could I tell him on Sunday (when he eventually brings her back :( ) that I want a court order, so there's no bending rules - and that until then, he won't be seeing her.

I'm at my wits end with it all, all he ever does is bring me down. He thinks he rules the roost, and I've had enough of his rudeness towards me, and his bad attitude. As I said before, my daughter never wants to see him!

Thanks in advance for any replies. I don't want abuse of any kind. I have been more than fair for the past few years, I've done him favours, given him more time for things - and still had abuse back! I want a court order, so he can no longer bend the rules. I will make it clear, that I do not want to keep him from her - I just want rules in place before he sees her again.

Three to Five is only two hours .. A court order isn'tgoing o make him stick right to times because havng it written as "until threee" doesnt mean he cant ring and say sorry running late and bring her at five. and coulple hours if she staying a weekend doesn't look a big deal. Is there something she does at three that can't wait til five pm ? Why three pm ? It is only just after Sunday lunch ?

Put yourself in judges position with him saying he Only sees her xxx days per week and just wants to make the most of Sunday bringing her back at five pm still in good time for bath and bed.... I can't see a judge saying five pm is unreasonable. It certainly does not sound "evil" from this alone.... You need better examples to make your point. Judge may order that she stays with him til seven pm on a Sunday, it went necessarily be to your advantage... Of he argues he needs more time and puts a good case... A judge won't believe he's "evil" on your say so unless you have very strong evidence.

Always try and think how someone would see his case if they don't know any backstory.... That tells you how a judge might see things... That she cries when she leaves you doesn't make him evil....some kids do on transitions... Does she come back clean, fed, ?

So you dropped her with him then the argument took place over the phone while he was with her ?

I would have said this was not the time to argue when he could have been focusing on dd....

You will, be Obliged to go to mediation if it goes to court so go for mediation session to try and pin down agreed times.

Do you have evidence of the abuse from him his partner? Reported to police ? Do you argue back ?

Can you keep communication to bare minimum, just about times, stick to emails so there is a record. Don't speak on phone r face to face if it s always an argument.

I am not saying you are stupid.

I am saying it is worrying that you call your daughter's father 'evil' because he has 'a lack of basic manners' and 'an attitude problem'.

Just what are you talking about? You can't just chuck words like 'evil' about. You have to deal with this situation for the next 10-15 years.

If you think your daughter is being emotionally harmed - do something about it. Either get professional help to mediate or go to court.

If this is more about your dislike of him, then you need to find better ways to deal with it, for her sake.

I know its hard, but she is the one who will really and truly suffer if she gets caught between you two.

It's not so much about the amount of hours he's "late" by, it's his refusal to bring her back at the agreed times - he's always doing it. I have messages of abuse I've kept from him, and her. I would like to try mediation, I'll just have to see what he says. We always argue, the timing is never ideal, as one of us always has DD. I'd feel more comfortable if there was a court order, just because he would have to stick to it. She comes back from his with a sore bum, literally everytime he has her for the weekend! Other than that, I can't pick fault and I know she's safe. I just want the arguments to stop, for Amelia's sake more than anything.

I am sorry to be bleak, but court orders are not magic. Sometimes they help, sometimes they just provide something else to argue about. People can still be late with a court order, can still mess you about. What are you going to do? Bring it back to court to enforce the order every time they do this?

I would really try to get some workable arrangement between the two of you. But I am not optimistic about that happening if you think he is 'evil'.

A sore bum? How old is dd op?

I'm more than aware of how long I will have to deal with this situation, that's why I'm trying to do something to change it. In my mind, he is evil. He has dragged me down for years - however, this isn't about my hate for him, I was just stating my feelings. This is about my daughter feeling safe, stable, secure and happy. Anyway, I came on here for advice, not to get into a debate over what's evil and what isn't.

She's 2.

Arguments take two people.... You can be the one to stop them .
Don't respond. Don't name call. Don't take phone calls . Ignore texts unless they formal.or ask specific question. Treat him like an annoying customer you have to grit teeth and be polite to.
Puthne phone down if the conversation s not formal.
Don't fire off emails or texts without counting five minutes .
Only answer questions that need answering. Don't call him names. Take the control back.

If he is always two hours late then offer a time two hours before you need her back. So ask if she can come back at one pm then compromse on three. Stay calm and be clever. Don't get rattled over five pm on a Sunday. Annoying yes but not such a bg deal. When he sees you not being rattled he may up the ante get worse... You jst stay calm. Ignore. You gotta deal with this f or many years find a way .

So are you saying its sexual abuse or he doesn't keep her bum clean enough?

You really have to be clear about what the problem is here, particularly if you are going down the court route.

Sorry, but if you want advice you can't pick and chose the bits you like. The use of the word 'evil' in this situation is really important. If you end up with a Cafcass report and you use words like that, believe me you will be required to explain it.

I think a court order will help. If he kept breaking his time with her by hours, they would do something. Whereas now, he can just get away with it and DD doesn't know if she's coming or going half the time :(

If you can show by email he s the Only one name calling harassing etc then you have the high moral ground... But by calling him evil etc you look as bad as him to the outside.....

No, sexual abuse, no way! I just don't think he's keeping her clean enough down there. I know, I try my best to ignore him and rise above it, but he really knows how to get to me now. I hope we can work it out, court is the last thing I want! We just frustrate each other, and then end up arguing.

What would the court do? Put him in prison? Very unlikely and only for repeated and very serious breaches. Fine him? Maybe. Send him to do unpaid work? possibly.

But I have never ever seen that happen and I have been involved in these kind of cases for about 15 years now. Plus you would have to do all the running and apply back to court each time to enforce the order against him.

It may work, but its definitely not an easy option.

I am glad you don't think its anything as serious as abuse, but it must be frustrating if you feel she isn't being looked after properly.

But do you see how the trouble can start building. You mention he is 'evil'. you then talk about a 'sore bum'. This is the way trouble starts brewing.

It's not even anything to do with point scoring, I'd just like a little more routine for my daughter! I'd like to know why she is upset with him too. I'd love to get on with the guy, or at least be civil, but after years of trying - I'm giving up!

I do see, yes. I'm thankful for your advice. I just don't want to lose my daughter, and I can see him trying it on sooner rather than later. If he knows he can keep her, and I can't do anything, he will! I'm scared more than anything :(

What do you think they would do ? Breaking by few hours won't bring the police...

Breaching court order may be an offence but you would need something quite serious... Keeping for extra days yes but two extra hours ? Be realistic... May be he might get told off and asked to stick to times... but they not going to imprison him are they ?

Lets say a court order says the contact is until three or Sundays and he is always late by two hours,,, then the only way for "them " to o something is for you or him to take it back to court to get order changed.... Where judge might listen to ex and sat well, three does not work lets change it to five.

A court order can hel set ines but equally an agreement set out in mediation could do that.... Any written agreement signed owouldd be good starting point.

Unless there are serious issues going on with evidence beyond he says s he says .

If you are scared that he might keep her then it may be that a Child Arrangements Order setting out clearly how she spends time with each of you might help. It may give you some reassurance but sadly it won't be a magic want to make him be reasonable if he is in fact an unreasonable git.

But at least you know you have a clear order to show the police if you ever needed to.

Email him a proposed two week routine with set times and days, ask for his views and what he suggests changing. Then it's written and agreed.
If you do end up in court you want tow yourself as reasonable.

Mediation is unlikely to work with a character like your ex's. Both parties need to be open and honest and willing to compromise. I doubt he is capable of this from what you've said.

A court order is unlikely to work either with regards to him sticking to times. As long as your daughter doesn't know what the times are it won't affect her. She doesn't have to know what arrangements you've made until she's much older. Also courts are all about the rights of the father now, not about the best interests of the children.

Being messed about will only really affect you, and only if you let it. I put up with the same kind of behaviour for years from my ex and the only thing that ever made it better was to act as if it didn't bother me at all. You can't force someone to become a reasonable responsible adult. Just don't let him know it bothers you because that's exactly what he wants, he wants to hurt you, evil man that he is. I very much doubt he will take her, whatever you do, don't let him know that is your worst fear, he will use it.

It is horrible dealing with people like this. I hope it gets better for you.

That's all I'm getting at, that I want an agreement so he can't just keep her if he feels like it. We set times for a reason, him not sticking to them really does annoy me. Obviously I wouldn't go to court everytime he was an hour late, but even if he was days late now - I couldn't do anything, as there's no written rules. When he brings her back late in the week, it interferes with bedtime, that's isn't fair on DD.

Also courts are all about the rights of the father now, not about the best interests of the children.

this is just not true. I have represented a lot of fathers who have to walk away with orders for indirect contact only. The courts look at the best interests of the child.

It is in a child's best interests to have a relationship with both parents unless there are serious reasons why not.

I've sat down and set times with him before, it just goes out the window when he has had enough of listening to me. :(

Spero - my experience of working for the courts has obviously been completely different to yours then. I'm not talking about personal experience, but about working experience and I've seen a lot of it. I often wonder just how bad a man has to be before he doesn't get unsupervised contact, there doesn't seem to be a limit and it continues to shock me.

I want her to have a relationship with her dad, I never had contact with mine so it is something I feel strongly about. I'm just sick of arguing with him over times, days, etc. I hate leaving her with him, because she gets upset. I hate the fact there's no routine, it changes when he wants it to. I hate the fact I live in fear of losing my own daughter to him. I hate the fact I'm scared of being bullied by him and his girlfriend! :(