Contact arrangement issue

[JRsgirl]

Hi, I?d like some points of view about the contact arrangement for mine and my ex?s daughter who?s 6. We separated when she was a year old and, without much discussion or question it was decided that I would have her for 2/3rds of the time. I was very happy with this as I?d done most of her care since she?d been born and as I say, he didn?t question it. The arrangement was that he would have her every other Friday/ Sat and Sun Night and every Weds night.

It worked fine. He has always paid his CSA on the nose. Although I have ever been that happy that I had to pay for all her childcare even on the days that he had ?pro-rated? but it was a small thing that I could put up with for peace and harmony and the right thing for our daughter.

He has always lived about a 15 minute drive away and works locally, but he works for a health club which means although on one hand he has the flexibility to be able to fetch her from school if he?s worked early, or take her to school if he works late (something I never had with my standard hours) it also meant he does have the least appropriate hours in terms of childcare.

So, when around 8 months ago our DD came to me crying one Sunday saying that the Weds ? Weds without Daddy every other week was too much and she missed him, I told him about it and suggested that on the Monday where she hadn?t been with him for the weekend (i.e. every other Monday) he could come and spend some time with her around tea time. At first he was very ?ahem, umm, cough, cough, I don?t think it will fit in with my work? Which I took to mean that he was happy with the status quo and didn?t really want to change the arrangements that were working for him. I was annoyed as although the longstanding arrangements worked for me too, I wanted to do the right thing for DD and a whole week without Daddy, followed by a concentrated 3 nights, is a bit disruptive for her.and was clearly upsetting her.

Anyway, he came a couple of times on a Monday and took her swimming which she loved but he would never really commit to it and often didn?t come. Then he moved about 45 minutes away (still working at the same place locally) and suddenly then reason for him not being able to have her on a Monday became that he lived too far away but said that when he moved back to the area (him and his fiancé had bought a house thatthey wouldmove to in tree months) he would start to have her on a Monday but it would have to be an overnight and he would reduce his maintenance accordingly.

I don?t care about the money but I thought it was a bit unfair to tie contact in to maintenance in what to me seemed such an obvious way. I had a bad feeling about it and have mulled it over for a few weeks now.

Anyway (sorry for waffling on but wanted to get the background in!) What I have decided is that I?m just not happy with it I don?t think it is right for her to spend 5 nights with Dad one week, then just one night the next week. I've had professional advice that one week on/ one week off it rarely the best thing for childrenand to me this is moving towards this. And I don?t think it?s a good idea for her to be away from me for 5 nights a week when she?s been used to being with me more.

Plus, her school is more local to me and her friends are all here. She herself has said she thinks she should be with me more because it?s what she?s used to and it?s easier to get to school from my house.

So I?ve put it to him that rather than the extra Monday night, we just swap our Fridays over. I.e. week one he has her: Weds & Fri and week two he has her: Weds, Sat, Sun. Which is the five days she is used to but without that huge gap between weds-weds not seeing Daddy.

He hasn?t come back to my suggestion in three days now and is avoiding talking about it. I imagine that means he isn?t happy about it but don?t know if it?s A, because he won?t be able to reduce his CM (would like to think it?s not this) B, because he?ll lose his entirely child free weekend, C, He?ll lose out on having DD for a whole weekend... or another reason?.

If he does say no then I have to say I don?t want to budge. I think the Monday thing is bad for DD. So what can I do???

I got some free legal advice and the solicitor said that if we took it to court ? which she wouldn?t advise and I don?t want to anyway, then they would say the ?status quo? was best for DD. And at best in his favour they would offer ?shared care? which is what he has anyway. But she also advised not to be railroaded in to giving him extra days if I wasn't completely happy with it because then that would become the status quo and if it didn?t turn out to be for the best I?d have a harder fight on my hands.

I?m really stuck. He is a good Dad, she loves him very much. He does fun things with her like swimming and other sports that aren?t really my forte. I do value his role very highly. But I am the one who does the main ?care? and always have been. He often (and by often I mean at least once most weekends) gets someone else in his family to look after her while he goes out which is a bit of a contentious issue for me seeing as she often complains about missing him as it is. I can't help feeling that things have always been fine for him but now he's buying a house and moving in with his fiance (plus obviously now the hard work of having a baby/ toddler is done) he wants to step in and call the shots, playing happy families. That sounds a bit bitter I suppose. I don't really mena it like that. I just want thebest for DD, and I don't want to be railroaded. He can be very controlling and he was always likethis in our relationship. I am bad at standing up for myself but find it easier when it comes to standing up for DD.

I?ll shut up now any thoughts?

Where did you get the 'professional advice' from?

Its a bit confusing, but you pushed for the Monday's in the first place

About the week on/ week off being bad? A friend of the family who lectures in child psycology and is a bit of an all round sage in these matters [smiles] and a family solicitor. They both said it is generally accepted that "little and often" is best.

I pushed for time to be spent on the Mondays because she was misisng him on account of the full week without seeing him at all. But not for an over night (which would be 3pm until school drop off). Also, thatw as before the penny dropped that a Frdiay would break up the long gap between contact just as well without such a big shift )

it isnt clear really - why is it not ok to spend 5 nights with Dad one week, then just one night the next week. ? why would it not work out to have one week largely with dad and the next largely with mum?

if he is having her more nights per week over the year then yes he can cut maintenance by 1/7 for each night but that is not the issue.

i dont understand the problem really - dd wants to see dad and dad wants to see dd.

he already has her overnights regularly. another night will be good for dd.

i dont understand the issue really from your point of view.

also is good for you each to have a fri to sunday weekend so you can arrange to go away etc. the monday makes sense all round.

also if he decides to arrange child care when she with him is nothing to do with you.

I don't really understand either

and little and often is appropriate for pre school children -as children get older things change . she has expressed a strong view and you should listen to her. if she will go very monday night it will also give you chance to do something eg evening class . this is great for you ! fridays going into a weekend i would avoid - except on every other basis.

See, I don't agree. I feel that if there is the question of my time being cut with DD because she misses Dad. Then I have a right to be annoyed that he isn't spending all the time he can with her. I.e. why Should I lose a day, when one of the weekend days he already has her - DD usually stays with relatives?

Maybe if he actually had her with him, she wouldn't miss him so much...Although I think the biggest problem is the Weds-Weds gap as I say.

I don't think it's good for her to have one weekend with one parent and the other with the other. She gets very unsettled as it is when she has been at his for the weekend (Monday night is always fitful, lots of getting up in the night and waking up upset)

I can't see who the Monday arrangement benefits over the proposed Friday one, other than him. I don't care for having a whole weekend to go away, if that's what I wanted I wouldn't have suggested the Friday thing. It's great to have a child free weekend but ultimately, it's upsetting DD so it's not important.

Thanks for the input, it's good to get different points of view.

Why would you avoid Fridays going in to weekends?

I am listening to her! She doesn't want to miss her Dad when she doesn't see him for a week every other week so I'mtrying to find a way around it without a huge disruption to what she's used to either. If I wasn't listening to her I'd keep it as it is as it works best for me like that.

I do think, whilst we should listen to our children, at six years old she shouldn't be making decisions on things like this herself. That's up to me and her Dad. She didn't suggest MOnday anyway - all she asked for was to not have so long inbetween seeing Dad - which the alternate Fridays would facilitate.

We've done 50-50 with my daughter since she was six, for the last six years.

It works fine, you do have to be flexible if things need to change, but we live 5 minutes away from each other.

I understand as they get older the arrangements need to be more flexible and they need more control over it but she's 6! Doesn't this apply to when she's miving in to secondary school age..? Right now she definitely seems to be needing stability and routine. In all areas of her life, ot just this one. I guess all children are different but she is very much still an infant emotionally. A lotof the children in her class are even more so. Some of them don't even know what day it is never mind being able to work out complex contact arrangements

Balder - what is the week split for you? And why did you come to that arrangement?

If we lived 5 minutes away that would be awesome - she could just flit from house to house as the mood took her. I can see 50/50 working for us if that were the case.

Thousands of children across the country do the 'every other weekend' thing. It's a standard contact arrangement. Her restlessness afterwards is normal

If he took this to court I think court would rule in his favour. And the psychologist input is of no use, and would not stand up in court anyway. Little and often is, as cestla says, used for toddlers/babies.

Why do you think they'd rule in his favour? The solictior told me that every other weeknd and one week day is the norm if days are specified at all but that "shared care" is what will usually be granted with non-specified days which is what he has... why would they award an extra day to him when he's never asked for it before now..? Also he willlive a 20 minute drive from her school. I don't work, he does... She'sused to being with me more and even says herself that is what she prefers... I don't understand.

Not that I'd ever take it to court. I guess I'll just say no and he'll have to take it to court which he wouldn't do as too expensive. Hopefullyit won't come to that anyway.

I think if he says no to my proposal, I'll tell him he can have the money difference anyway, then if it is about money for him then it'll be problem solved.

My DH and his exW have 50/50 shared care which means that every other week they go 5 days without seeing their dad, (then the following week 5 days without seeing their mum). Of course they miss him but it's the routine, they are used to it and it works.

TBH, in your situation I would have said to my dd that it is OK to miss her dad but that she has her next visit to look forward to. You don't have to change a system that works because your dd sometimes misses her dad, or her mum when she is with him.

It is easy to fall into the trap of thinking we have to do everything to avoid upset with our kids when we are sperated from their dads, but don't forget there are lots of children in together families whose dad works away so they don't see him all week - or with forces dads maybe not for 6 months at a time.

Your dd has 2 parents who love her and are doing their best for her but that doesn't mean life will always be perfect for her. It's not perfect for anyone.

Maybe that's the mistake I made, Glass. I wanted to listen to her and make things better for her but as I say, a six year old doesn't really know what's right for them do they.

The important thing as far as I can see is what the child is "used to" and that is what I was told by the Child Psycologist as well. Whose opinion I value even though I know the courts wouldn't. She's been with me for 2/3rds of the time since she was a baby and I don't see the need for that any less now that she is six. He wasn't interested until now that he is moving in with his fiance (who by the way is awesome!) and who will do most of the care, so I don't see why DD and I should fall in line just because it's convenient to him.

I think you're right - consistency is most important at that age and she is used to the current system. It's not as if she hardly sees her dad is it?

I'm not sure you can read too much into your ex not replying. I reached a stage that rather than reacting to communications when I received them I would leave them at least 10 days to formulate an unemotional response.

Contact is for the benefit of children and neither parents "owns" a child's time. Also although it's important to listen to children it's important to understand the rationale and context behind what they say. A 6 year old can't fully understand the implications of a decision and ultimately it is adults who are responsible for making decisions.

"Little and often" is often recommended for younger children but many families with primary school aged children find longer periods of contact and few handovers is a more settled arrangement.

If your ex agreed the current arrangement was satisfactory what are his reasons for wanting to change? I would suggest if they are child focused (e.g. his proposed schedule would be more settled, involves less tooing and froing) then it's worth trying to reach an agreement about arrangements rather than getting into a power struggle and the negative effects which are so detrimental to children.

Hi there. Outwardly his reasons are that he just can't wait to spend more time with her. But I find that very odd given that he's never asked for more time and has always huffed and moaned if I've ever asked for anymore than he has her currently and he's constantly making social arrangements during contact time. Which is why I am going down the slightly less palatable route that it is because he will be able to reduce his maintenance. I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that he is giving up the batchelor lifestyle to make a family home with his fiance (which can only have benfits for DD) an with a very supportive and hands on other-half on the scene, having DD will be easier for him than it has been in the past.

It wouldn't mean less toing and froing for her. It would be more than currently. and the same as my proposal. In hindsight I suppose I should have said to DD that although I had heard her concerns, we should stick to the original proposal. But I guess I wanted her to be happy and don't like the thought of her missing her Dad. A Monday visit would have been fab and the weeks that it did happen DD loved it and was much more settled - it's annoying that he's taken it as an invite to push for an extra night which will cause her upheaval. My Friday suggestion is a kind of compromise btween what i want (a Monday teatime visit) and what he wants (a Monday night). So really what I should be pushing for is the Monday visit rather than the Friday thing.

I think the only bit that makes me a bit is this

If he does say no then I have to say I don?t want to budge

It is really tough to sort out a contact regime that will work for everyone, and I have to say I don't think he has done/said anything unreasonable, so it seems a bit 'my way or the highway' when there's probably lots of ideas/possibilities to explore in order to find a solution to suit a little girl who wants to see her Daddy more.

I'm not getting how the maintenance thing is such a big deal - if you suddenly had her more, you'd feel it reasonable to ask for more maintenance, surely? That wouldn't mean you just want her for the money, would it?

Why not suggest sticking with the existing arrangement and if your ex is able to take up all the contact reviewing it in three months?

Because he's adamant that it's nine of my business who he gets to look after her and I feel a bit of a battle axe to keep asking him.

If it was as simple as that Balia, I agree completely. Nothing wrong with paying less if he has her more. The reason I raise it is that he never wanted to see her for a visit or to spend time on a Monday, unless he can have her over night.. That doesn't make sense to me.

Im confused, can you just post the current arrangement?

Well - unless you feel he's handing her over to crack-addled sociopaths or similar it isn't really any of your business, in much the same way that I'm sure you don't feel the need to inform him if you get your mum to look after her for a couple of hours or pay a babysitter. Time in Daddy's house shouldn't be all 'Disney Dad', it should be just normal life, like it is at Mummy's.

Perhaps it doesn't make sense to you that he prefers to have her overnight rather than 'visiting'. But then you don't have to do it. Ask yourself - which would you prefer?

I think I've made sense of it and I think the overnights Monday should happen - I certainly don't think him coming to yours to visit her is an acceptable proposal tbh.

Also I don't see the problem with other people babysitting when he has her, "normal" life should continue.

If I have read this right - he would have her 2 weeks nights overnight every week and every other weekend sat and sun nights. So 2 nights one week and 4 the next? I do wonder if every tues and thur and everyother sat and sun would be better, nicely break up the week?

But I may be talking bollix as I don't really grasp what is happening at present

Not quite, sorry I was waffling a bit.

Current arrangement: week one: weds, fri, sat, sun
Week two: weds

His proposal (actually not his proposal. He has stated that he is happy with the current arrangement but that if he has to see her more then it must be an overnight): week one: mon, weds, fri, sat, sun
Week two: weds

My counter proposal: week one: weds, fri
Week two: weds, sat, sun

The tues/thurs thing would be fine by me actually but he has declined that before because it takes up too much of each week.

Most people in here seem to view him as a man who dearly wants to spend time with his child. I guess only I can know what the truth is. In answer to your question Balia, I'd rather have her stay than just spend tea time with her. But that's why I've spent the last six years seeing her whenever I can, arranging nights out in the piss during times that I DONT have her here and taking him up in every opportunity to have her here over and above what I already do.

He never takes me up on extra care and always plans nights out when he has her. I trust who he leaves her with entirely. And no it's nine of my business. But when our dd is crying because she misses her dad, and I'm being asked to cut my time with her - I'm pissed off that she and he have opportunities to be together, that owing to his decisions, she doesn't get to enjoy.

He never wanted her for an extra night when she was in nappies, and up all night. Or when he was happily living the Batchelor lifestyle. But now he wants to play happy families and save some cash, IM supposed to bend over? And to hell with what's best for our DD... He has rights after all doesn't he.