Contact arrangement issue

[JRsgirl]

Hi, I?d like some points of view about the contact arrangement for mine and my ex?s daughter who?s 6. We separated when she was a year old and, without much discussion or question it was decided that I would have her for 2/3rds of the time. I was very happy with this as I?d done most of her care since she?d been born and as I say, he didn?t question it. The arrangement was that he would have her every other Friday/ Sat and Sun Night and every Weds night.

It worked fine. He has always paid his CSA on the nose. Although I have ever been that happy that I had to pay for all her childcare even on the days that he had ?pro-rated? but it was a small thing that I could put up with for peace and harmony and the right thing for our daughter.

He has always lived about a 15 minute drive away and works locally, but he works for a health club which means although on one hand he has the flexibility to be able to fetch her from school if he?s worked early, or take her to school if he works late (something I never had with my standard hours) it also meant he does have the least appropriate hours in terms of childcare.

So, when around 8 months ago our DD came to me crying one Sunday saying that the Weds ? Weds without Daddy every other week was too much and she missed him, I told him about it and suggested that on the Monday where she hadn?t been with him for the weekend (i.e. every other Monday) he could come and spend some time with her around tea time. At first he was very ?ahem, umm, cough, cough, I don?t think it will fit in with my work? Which I took to mean that he was happy with the status quo and didn?t really want to change the arrangements that were working for him. I was annoyed as although the longstanding arrangements worked for me too, I wanted to do the right thing for DD and a whole week without Daddy, followed by a concentrated 3 nights, is a bit disruptive for her.and was clearly upsetting her.

Anyway, he came a couple of times on a Monday and took her swimming which she loved but he would never really commit to it and often didn?t come. Then he moved about 45 minutes away (still working at the same place locally) and suddenly then reason for him not being able to have her on a Monday became that he lived too far away but said that when he moved back to the area (him and his fiancé had bought a house thatthey wouldmove to in tree months) he would start to have her on a Monday but it would have to be an overnight and he would reduce his maintenance accordingly.

I don?t care about the money but I thought it was a bit unfair to tie contact in to maintenance in what to me seemed such an obvious way. I had a bad feeling about it and have mulled it over for a few weeks now.

Anyway (sorry for waffling on but wanted to get the background in!) What I have decided is that I?m just not happy with it I don?t think it is right for her to spend 5 nights with Dad one week, then just one night the next week. I've had professional advice that one week on/ one week off it rarely the best thing for childrenand to me this is moving towards this. And I don?t think it?s a good idea for her to be away from me for 5 nights a week when she?s been used to being with me more.

Plus, her school is more local to me and her friends are all here. She herself has said she thinks she should be with me more because it?s what she?s used to and it?s easier to get to school from my house.

So I?ve put it to him that rather than the extra Monday night, we just swap our Fridays over. I.e. week one he has her: Weds & Fri and week two he has her: Weds, Sat, Sun. Which is the five days she is used to but without that huge gap between weds-weds not seeing Daddy.

He hasn?t come back to my suggestion in three days now and is avoiding talking about it. I imagine that means he isn?t happy about it but don?t know if it?s A, because he won?t be able to reduce his CM (would like to think it?s not this) B, because he?ll lose his entirely child free weekend, C, He?ll lose out on having DD for a whole weekend... or another reason?.

If he does say no then I have to say I don?t want to budge. I think the Monday thing is bad for DD. So what can I do???

I got some free legal advice and the solicitor said that if we took it to court ? which she wouldn?t advise and I don?t want to anyway, then they would say the ?status quo? was best for DD. And at best in his favour they would offer ?shared care? which is what he has anyway. But she also advised not to be railroaded in to giving him extra days if I wasn't completely happy with it because then that would become the status quo and if it didn?t turn out to be for the best I?d have a harder fight on my hands.

I?m really stuck. He is a good Dad, she loves him very much. He does fun things with her like swimming and other sports that aren?t really my forte. I do value his role very highly. But I am the one who does the main ?care? and always have been. He often (and by often I mean at least once most weekends) gets someone else in his family to look after her while he goes out which is a bit of a contentious issue for me seeing as she often complains about missing him as it is. I can't help feeling that things have always been fine for him but now he's buying a house and moving in with his fiance (plus obviously now the hard work of having a baby/ toddler is done) he wants to step in and call the shots, playing happy families. That sounds a bit bitter I suppose. I don't really mena it like that. I just want thebest for DD, and I don't want to be railroaded. He can be very controlling and he was always likethis in our relationship. I am bad at standing up for myself but find it easier when it comes to standing up for DD.

I?ll shut up now any thoughts?

If he his leaving her with family, I see that as OK, as its good for her to have a relationship with her extended paternal family as well.

Now he is settled with fiance, then I think I would resuggest the tues/thur and every other sat/sun thing and see how it goes, perhaps you could sit down with him and fiance if she is nice, with him having the first option on the fridays every other if you want to go away for weekend??

Contact that way is slightly increasing from 5 to 6 nights a fortnight.

What happened in the past is almost irrelevant, its finding a way forward thats most important.

You're right there. It is what's important. Easy to lose sight of that I guess becuase my opinion of what he does now is always coloured by how he has behaved throughout history. I can't see why he would have changed. But perhaps if I sit down with them both I will get a better idea than through texts and emails. I will try the tues/thurs thing again but he has said in the past that regularly having her more than one night during the week is too much for him to manage.

I don't seem to be getting my point across about him leaving her with family very well. Idon't have an issue with it. What I'm saying is that if she is upset that she is not seeing her dad enough, I would prefer that he look at utilising the time that he has her better, rather than taking time from me. I rarely if ever leave her with anyone as in my opinion having every other weekend "off" is more than most parents get and is adaquate time for me to plan a social life. Bt if my days with her are cut further so tht she can spend time with Daddy then I will literally feel that I can never leave her with anyone as time together will be too precious.

What i would like is for him to spend a month actually spending his contcat time with her, then see if she still feels that the current arrangement doesn't give her enough time with Daddy. But as I say, I'm not about to start making demands on what he does with his time.

Ah yes, and I completely agree with it being important for her to have a relationship with the extended family. Theyre all lovely as well. DD has a great relationship with my extended family, we're round there all the the time or them here. But that doesn't mean that every weekend I have her I pack her off to my Mum's while I go on the lash. To say that doing that would be in aid of her developing a reltionship with my Mum would be disingenuous...

Why does she cry about missing him when she clearly sees him quite a lot ? If she knows will see him next week then should be ok really ? Does she call him in the week ? And she does see him regularly ? Is he saying things to her about missing him? What is it she misses? If he has been coming to yours then taking her out has this been confusing for her eg she misses him thnks he might come back ?

I can understand her saying oh I miss daddy but if she really upset about it it sounds a bit over anxious where is she getting that From? When answere is you will see him next week look on weds.

I dunno but maybe there is more in her anxieties you need to get to bottom of.

Try role play with teddies dolls,living in diff houses visiting their dad and mum.See what they say ?
Ask her to draw her family and where they live and see if she will talk and open up ?

Also is there any indication that if he had here on a Monday or tues or whatever surely less likely he will go out "on the lash" as is mid week ?Mso might be more positive contact for dd ?

But when she saying she misses him try somehow finding what it is she missingn ?

On paper having more overnights with him should not be an issue really. But maybe there is more to her anxieties to address ?

she doesnt sound over anxious to me, she sounds like a little girl who loves her daddy, my DCs miss me and cry for me if I am gone overnight.

I don't think she's over anxious, although you are right to raise the point.
It's the Sunday night when she hasn't seen him since the Weds night and won't see him until following weds that she gets upset. I guess to a six year old a week is a long time not to see a much loved parent. Which is why I was annoyed when he was so hesitant to take her out for a little while on a Minday tea time even though it makes things so much more happy for her.

He does call sometimes, and he does go on about missing her. I've spoken to him about it gently and also about calling at a set time but apparently that's just me over thinking and being controlling.

I would really like to do the whole free flowing thing in terms of contact as it could be lead by her but I'm sorry to say that I don't trust him to use it to her advantage. Only his own. And if course we don't live close enough.

If your ex's lifestyle is changing and he's settling down then your DD would definitely benefit from her Dad playing a more equal role in his life, I'm sure.

Perhaps you and he could sit down together and come to an agreement that would suit both of you from a clean sheet - using the starting point of maximising the time DD has with each parent, balanced with the need for stability and (at her age) less than a week between visits.

My DD was 8 when we put a 50:50 weekly routine in place - other than one or two hiccups, she adapted well, although it had not been easy and now she is older, it needs to be reviewed again.

Certainly, your DD is old enough to express her wishes and feelings in a supported way - CAFCASS spoke to DSS when he was a little younger than your DD, and his views were included in the report submitted to the court. That's not to say he got what he wanted - but it was considered alongside other factors.

If your ex controlling, then mediation may be an option? It sounds like a lot has changed in both of your lives since the agreement that suited you both at the time was made - and that means it may be possible to put a new arrangement in place that better meets your DDs needs, which have also changed in the last few years

Mediation could be the way actually, don't know why I didn't think of that as I always spout it at others

I think part of my fear is that if I "give up" time now, when it needs reviewing again as she grows up which it undoubtably will do because all her friends are local to me and because of how he is (I have a feeling that the teenage her will not like his ways as much as the child her) it might be hard to get when it's not been the status quo. If that makes sense.

I will contact him if he's still not responded over the weekend and invite him to have mediation. I am really pissed off that he is completely stone walling me. It's unkind and, typically, controlling.

Once she's older, the status quo wouldn't ever overrule her own opinions and wishes

Ah yes, how foolish of me

I guess I just want to know what's best for her because she's so small I feel responsible for being her voice. I dont want to voice the wring thing but equally, i dont want to keep quiet and allow something to happen thats not right. Man it's tough being a parent

I guess I just want to know what's best for her because she's so small I feel responsible for being her voice. I dont want to voice the wring thing but equally, i dont want to keep quiet and allow something to happen thats not right. Man it's tough being a parent

She has two voices at this stage in her life - both you and her Dad. You may not always agree on what you think is best for her, and yes, it is very hard, knowing when to concede to do things his way, even when it may not be how you would do it, or what you think is right.

I often find it helps to consider how I would react if it was a friend/colleagues child - if they were proposing for their own DC's what your ex is proposing for yours, how would you feel about it? Would you feel strongly that it was a bad parenting decision, or just something that you wouldn't do yourself?

IMO, the benefits of shared care and two active parents outweigh the fact that once you are separated, you can no longer raise your DC entirely the way you would choose to. The balancing act is knowing when something the other parent wants to do is damaging to the DC, and when it is something that they will benefit from, despite your reservations and dislike of the person proposing it!

dont worry about when she is a teenager, she will over rule you both

I get told where our children are going now. (by them) and as long as its reasonable, it's fine.

If they're supposed to be at mine but want to stay at mum's/friends/relatives it's all fine with me.

+1 NotaDisneyMum

Great advice. It has to be about the little girl and it means working together.

Mediation is probably the best step here.

i think if either parent is saying to the other child "i miss you so much when i dont see you"
rather than "have fun i will see you next weds/friday" it puts lot of pressure on the child.
makes the child think oh if i see him more he wont miss me so much.

puts ideas?

I agree cest la vie. I've seen the repercussions of such irresponsible behaviour as my step daughters mother used every dirty trick in the book to alienate her dd from her dad. To the detriment of their dd.

I would never say anything like that. I know that dd's dad says things like that though. He'd agree with her about how much they missed each other, straight after refusing an offer from me of extra time with her. I feel like she somehow thinks its my fault that she misses Daddy, whereas he's never asked for, or accepted, extra time with her from me.

I asked him what his thoughts were today and he said he wants to meet up next week...

Not sure what to do now.

100% agree with balia here. It is important that dads do social stuff/ work at home/ have the kids looked after by someone else. It should seem normal and not all about everything being centred around your DD, as that may only serve to create a spoiled individual long-term. And 'visiting' for tea is REALLY hard. My partner has this situation with his DC and it's such limited time that it can feel quite manic and means it's hard for him to parent appropriately (esp with discipline etc.) when the time just feels so ludicrously precious.

I agree completely! I have a stepdaughter and boy do I know the pitfalls of making contact time all about "entertaining"

I'm afraid you're preaching to the converted. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be "normal" time, with family and social stuff mixed in. What I'm saying is that he has her every weds and every other weekend. 5 days over a 14 day period. Until very recently I worked very long hours so other than the manic hour and a half before bedtime in week days, I didn't spend much more "quality time" than he did. Hence my making sure that my social arrangements were largely made outside of my precious time with her. He never saw the need to do that and as I result (IMO) she misses him - because she is only with him 5 nights out of 14, and for around two of those, she is left with grandparents/ fiancé/ fiancé's parents.

Now, given The issue is that dd is missing Daddy, what should the solution be...? More time with Daddy? Right. Should that be taken from mummy? Or maybe it should be taken from extended family instead. It doesn't even have to be taken, he could spend time with them AND dd. that would be lovely for everyone. Then if she still missed him, I may be more inclined to offer up some if my time with her to him. He only wants what suits him, I know the guy. It's all about convenience.
But I will suggest mediation and try to be flexible. If only I could know for sure what is best for her that would make things a lot easier.

The Monday thing is in addition to every weds and every other fri, sat, sun. So hardly "ludicrously precious" particularly given that he's been offered tues & thurs as well and turned them down.

I get where you're coming from (as you know) but, when put the way you have, it could come across as protecting your time, iyswim?

DD has 5/14 days with Dad, some of which is spent with extended family (let's say two days of each 5). So, DD had 9 days with mummy, 3 days with Daddy and 2 days with extended family, and as she misses Daddy, you want to try and increase the time she spends with him.

The question is, does she halve the time she spends with extended family, or reduce the time she has with mummy by 1 day?

I'm not saying you're wrong to feel the way you do - but that there are very different ways of interpreting your suggestion

True nadm, but I don't see why the the time with extended family has to be sans father...

I will be honest, it is about my time with her, but also her time with me. Which she is used to and enjoys. She hasn't asked for extra nights with dad and actually wants to be with me more because of the close proximity to friends and school. The extra overnight only facilitates his wants.

So I guess the question is, do I agree With the over night - else he might say no to the Monday visit (which can be done away from my house, they love to swim together and the pool is 2 minutes from me) and she will continue to miss him during the long Weds-Weds? Or do I agree, even though it means that she has to have an extra night away from here, I miss time with her, she has a longer ride to school, and she has changed the ratio of overnights that she's used to and us happy with, potentially making her unsettledness worse... I'm stuck.

I think mediation would help.

I think you need to work out what she really means by "missing" daddy.

If she misses being in his house she should have more overnights and a longer ride to school with him would give more one on one time for chatting.

If she misses the idea of him it's something else.

You have also thrown in a stepdaughter into the equation so there are other family dynamics at play. Does the step daughter get more contact with her dad or less ? How old is stepdaughter etc . Maybe a chat with a family therapist rather than mediator to explore the whole family situation going on and how having a stepsister may be impacting ? Not saying it is as depnds oon ages etcetc but Something to explore with dd ? Thru role play pictures asking open ended questions ? Enlist help of a professional ? Child can fixate on one thing which would fix everything but is is more complex than that ?

It is the "missing " thing I am not sure I really get in terms of what she means . If she is expressing that the issue is the long time between weds to weds visits then it it's totally logical for another night to be built in. But even then I not sure it makes sense as she knows she has very regular contact with him and enjoys her time in between with you.

If she misses him because when she is with him she isn't with him. But passed on to others then that is different...but I understood it was about the long weds to weds gap ? And she doesn't have an issue with what happens when she there ?

Sorry bu t I more confused than before ... On the one hand you say she is used to current arrangements but on the other you say it upsets and unsettles her. ? (may be misreading it is late )

Step sister is 13, she is very rarely here but used to be until recently. The thing about missing dad was said before stepsis stopped coming.

Dd said she just wanted to see him in between the weds to weds and when he did manage to come on a Monday for a little while she was really happy. She doesn't want more over nights, just a little time with dad in between which, despite how much it helps her, he can't seem to commit to. Maybe it doesn't feel great, maybe he'd prefer to have her over night, maybe it's about the money. Who knows, but I'm supposed to be (and will be) doing what is right for her despite what makes me feel good, naturally. So to be honest if in further investigation she would be more settled with a mon visit or a Friday overnight, I think that is what should be considered rather than his feelings.

Thanks for all your advice, I'll sort some family mediation out and see if we can move on.