How often do exs phone their children?

[Maybee]

My xh phones every evening to speak to the kids. He always phones at v busy times like meal times and just before bed. Our 9 yr old rolls his eyes but speaks to him and the 2 & 3 yr old tend to run around with the phone babbling. Not meaning to be unfair but its really starting to piss me off. Calls are never just a quick goodnight they last 20mins +. I am in the meantime rushing about cooking or cleaning up keeping an eye on them or getting them bathed/settled for bed. After 30mins on the phone on Tues my x asked my son to install skype on my new computer at 8.40 so he could see him. I put my foot down and then x phoned me back and called me really unreasonable. The other 2 were in bed but my 9 yr old goes to bed at 8.30/9 on weeknights too. So I have suggested that we arrange times as kids have activities and eldest has hwork most nights. He screeched at me and hung up. He lives in the UK I moved to Ireland so he comes over twice a month and for 1/2 of school hols. I didn't think such frequent visits were sustainable but he has continued. He pretty much takes over my home when he comes as the kids are still young. Next visit is Saturday so I need to get it across to him that he cannot hang up and shout at me and then expect to just take over the house. He is v volatile. Also he cannot just phone when he needs to talk to them. I now make sure the kids lives go on as normal when he is around so that they don't miss out on parties and get too disrupted by his visits.

Obviously I want them to have regular contact with their dad but get the feeling that once more it is all about his needs.
I know it would be a lot worse if he wasn't interested in seeing them or talking to them but there must be a middle ground.
How do other people manage /communication/contact without huge dramas?

I don't think anyone is giving him a standing ovation. But clearly flying over twice a month is quite an undertaking, in anyone's book

"He's a grown man and as someone wisely said if he is so commited he can arrange his calls to fit their lives". But without a crystal ball, how on earth is he supposed to know what they are doing at any particular time . How was he to kinow that DS was out in the street?

Clearly yelling is unacceptable. And who said he could do what he pleases? What are these whims? Is phoning every day a whim??

I have a 3yo and believe me, someone being able to pick a point in the evening between mealtime and bedtime would be pretty hard. And if they did, I'd probably then be annoyed that they were taking the only time I had in between. There is no ideal situation in a break-up when time needs to be shared. I'm pretty sure he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

All new when i asked him originally to phone outwith mealtimes and bedtimes he had a tantrum and slammed down the phone. That has been sorted sure he can't know when ds 1 is out playing that wasn't my point at all. He knows their routine well by now though. Sometimes a daily phone call becomes a chore for ds1 that is all.
Damned if he does damned if he doesn't isn't the case here.

Phoning every day may be a passing whim or a commitment time will tell.

You are absolutely right to have moved home to Ireland and I wish that option had been open to me way back when it all hit the fan big time. A single mother who has family and support nearby is going to be in a better position as a parent than one stuck miles from everyone she can rely on. 'Choosing to move overseas' is not really the situation here. She moved home, back to where her family is and where she is familiar with the school system, etc,. and imo it was the best thing she could have done for her children.

A man with an ounce of sense would know that the children have dinner and go to bed in the timeframe when he calls. Really.

My guess is the phoning every day will be a passing phase until he finds something else to bother you with, judging by your description of his personality and past behaviour. That is why it is a good idea to take a reasonable request that comes wrapped in unreasonable layers and find a compromise that works for you. Half the fun here for this exH is being a thorn in the OP's side imo.

Stand up to this man and if he gets stroppy in your house call the Gardai. You do not have to put up with abuse and neither do your children. He is trying to see how much of his weight he can throw around without challenge.

OP, how was he violent to you? Do you mind explaining a little about that for the benefit of the people who think that you yelling is unacceptable?

Thanks for the insight math I was starting to feel demonised. Indeed I have got my son into a fab school here. We have been coming here on hols and for weekends for years so the boys knew what to expect in some respects. They have cousins that they get on well with and it has a good outdoorsy scene with a good community. My 9yr old gets a lot more freedom and independence here than he would in the city. Not to topple x's heroism but the trip from my house noe to his home in Glasgow (old family home takes 3 .5 hours) Many nrps in the uk have to undertake such journeys to see their kids. Ok it is an expense but Ryanair has made that manageable.
I also think that the persistent calls will fade away and resurface according to what is going on in his life.
RHW X became violent to me the first time on a family holiday when he got drunk and ds was v small. I don't want to spell it out but it was v unpleasant. the next day he said sorry but also convinced me that I had brought it on myself. anyway he did exactly the same thing last year when the penny dropped that I was definitely leaving him. This time it was in front of the tots aged 1 and 2. Thank goodness our 9yr old was in another room. It was one way of convincing me that I was 100% right to get out and bring my kids up in a peaceful home alone. He spat on my head on another occasion while I was feeding the baby and a good while before we split he used to scream that he didn't give a fuck about me in front of them. I cringe now how I thought it was all part and parcel of the ups and downs of family life but things get v skewed when you're in a dysfunctional relationship. There were also some great times. Indeed many people thought we seemed like a great family. If I thought there was a risk that he might be violent again he would not get into my house but he isn't that stupid. My brother lives a stones throw away. My family and friends think as does his own mother that he is damned lucky to get over my door twice a month but I will tolerate him (within perimeters) if it is ultimately a good thing for the boys. Kids cotton on quickly to who has their best interests at heart.
However I must say it is a bit scalding when people judge me so harshly without even reading the situation properly.

I am so sorry if you feel my remarks were harsh. In my defence, there was nothing in your OP about the violence/abuse etc, which sounds horrible. I do still think that you need to look at your motives in terms of the emotional effect of the abuse (have you had any help/counselling?) and your reaction because one of the things that struck me about the thread was that there was so little mention of the reaction of the DC's to the continuing involvement of their Dad - do they enjoy his visits?

I don't get this whole thing about 'standing ovation'. Or that he is playing a 'game' by keeping in contact with his kids. I think a lot of posters were talking about fairness and the rights of the children.

I understand where the standing ovation thing comes from as I have heard comments myself to the tune of "Isn't he great to take an interest in the children" and it makes my teeth itch tbh. We set the bar too low for men if this is all that is expected of them.

My particular exH, about whom those comments were made, has threatened both his eldest DCs with taking them to court/calling the police -- the 'reasons' being alleged rudeness to him in front of his parents in the case of DD1, and DS's (aged 17) refusal to go to a New Year's get together in the home of exH's gf. exH's response on that occasion was to lock DS into his flat when he left with the others and warn him that if he left he would have him arrested. He hid DS's jacket and wallet. Neither of the DCs talk to him any more. I was blamed for alienating them from him. He is a lawyer and I spent the better part of 18 months defending motions for contempt of court that he brought against me and weasling his way out of suggestions by the judge that we attend family therapy together. For reasons unknown to me but probably all to do with his own life, he has suddenly started to behave in a civil manner towards me. It is downright uncanny, like the lull before the storm. I am completely unused to it and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Plenty of men play games when it comes to contact with the DCs as it affords a chance to have contact with their ex wife at the same time. Many are just as interested in punishing the woman who had the temerity to challenge their behaviour and leave as they are in contact with their children. It is hardly ever the case when a man has been abusive that he will just close the book on the past and do anything just for the sake of the children. In that context, comments about fairness and the rights of the children elicit a hollow laugh from many women who have left marriages because of abuse, 'fairness' in particular.

[please don't take offence my tongue is well inserted in cheek]

Argh, don't want the thread to turn into a AIBU fest, and it maybe due to me lacking the old portable chest SMA dispencers but I read mathanxiety post as "lets not treat farthers any differently to mothers, but men are crap aren't they!!"

[please don't take offence my tongue is well inserted in cheek]

Sorry, I know that's not what you said ... but it kind of made me giggle in my own childish way.

Well it wasn't what I meant but anyway...

The key word is 'abuse' -- if there has been abuse in the relationship then that abuse can be sadly predicted to continue, albeit taking different forms.

A lot of couples divorce for reasons that have nothing to do with abuse and in general can set aside their personal differences and be decent parents.

True words, Math, but unfortunately plenty of women play games when it comes to contact with DC's, too, and are just as interested in punishing the man who has the temerity to try to continue his relationship with the children.

That's the thing though, this isn't a discussion about men and women but abusive and non- abusive exes. The OP said way back at the beginning that she had tried to negotiate and compromise with her ex but unsuccessfully and that was part of the reason the situation had escalated.

I completely relate to this as my ex was abusive and even now, a few years down the line still plays endless games. My DD's head teacher ran after me in the playground recently to ask why he was suddenly appearing at school events and volunteering for school trips. I know he will never stop punishing me for daring to leave and he now only has my daughter via which to do it. I certainly don't believe all men are like this but I believe many abusive exes are.

Maybee, I posted last night after your heartfelt post, but it obviously didn't go through. I appreciate you sharing your experience you really have been through a nightmare. So relieved that you are safe with your family.

I suspect DP has carefully chosen to live abroad for reasons that suit him, but I'm suspicious that way.

This thread is really about getting perspective on phone use, you have been made to feel that you are not entitled to restrict his calls and have sought advice here. But it really depends on the absent parent doesn't it - if it's someone that hurt you deliberately in the past, phone used should be limited for the reason that Queen and Math have stated.

On the other hand, some Dads would be a welcome relief on the phone to keep one child occupied while the other is getting ready for bed etc. Perhaps the children's reactions to his calls would give you the best perspective of all.

"Perhaps the children's reactions to his calls would give you the best perspective of all.", tread on this ground very very carefully, children often react how the are perceived they should react, and are often rather short sighted in their actions. It's therefore upto the parents to encourage and promote what they feel is positive actions and behaviour from their children.

You moved them to Ireland, how can their lives go on as normal? How can he possibly continue proper contact after you moved to a different country? Why did you do that?

Hmm, I wouldn't condone parents being abusive especially infront of the kids, then again I can't imagine how hurt and how painful I would find it if my Ex moved so far away that it restricted my access to twice a month. I hope both parents are able to keep helping their children make the best of the difficult situation. Peace out peoples of the interweb!

colditz you are an insensitive ARSE. He is VIOLENT. She moved HOME. He can MOVE but is probably SCARED of what her family might do to him to protect her.

whiteandnerdy this woman has put up with all kinds of shite from her abusive ex in order for him to keep contact with her. She is allowing long phonecalls precisely to encourage a relationship with them.

The kids don't actually seem to want to talk to him much as they run around and roll their eyes. That's despite her wanting to support the contact.

I find it staggering that some posters believe that the OP would have moved country, away from her exh, without very good reason - particularly when the OP has already explained the situation. I had to do exactly the same thing and it was only because I had been through an horrific time at the hands of my exh that I did this. In fact, even though exh was behaving terribly, I did everything I could to try to stay abroad so as not to put my DC in a different country to their dad.

Moving your whole life with young DC, especially when you are escaping an abusive ex, is no easy undertaking. Re-building your life so that your DC have a stable environment takes time and I still feel immense guilt that my DC do not have their dad nearby. However, since moving, I have done everything I can to facilitate my DC's relationship with their dad. Maybee I too have to listen to some people tell me how marvellous my exh is for flying over to see his DC regularly and how great it is that he pays maintenance etc. Possibly, what they are really thinking is that I am a complete bitch for moving my DC away from their dad and how awful for my exh and my DC. But you know what, let such short sighted people think what they like, because they have no idea of what I have been through or the fact that it was actually my exh who gave me no option but to move.

My ex was violent. I didn't move country.

And realhousewife - don't call me names, please.

Balia, in this case, the ex is violent and has already yelled at her in her own house. That is for Colditz too.

She moved home to her family in Ireland, not off to sunny Spain.

It still requires a cross-sea journey for the children to see their dad. I believe that it's wrong unless the father is a danger to the children, in which case there should be no contact at all. If you're going to maintain contact, then do so properly. Don't move to another country in the hope that contact stops./

May I point out that it took the op three days to let us know that her ex was violet, by which time you expect all the pertinant facts to have been explained.

He would be travelling further if she had moved from Scotland to London to be near family.

Don't assume she hoped moving away would mean contact would stop. That is not warranted by anything she has said.

How has she shown unwillingness to maintain contact? The man comes and stays in her house twice a month despite the history of violence, fgs. She is going to set up skype. All she wants is for the children not to have to be on the phone during bathtime and bedtime. Is that too much for her to ask? Does she need to put up with her evenings disrupted like that in order to convince you that she is doing all she can to facilitate the contact? What is wrong with finding a reasonable compromise (which she has done) that everyone can be happy with?

Are you trying to insinuate that she is making it up?

This is from her first post:
'Next visit is Saturday so I need to get it across to him that he cannot hang up and shout at me and then expect to just take over the house. He is v volatile.'