Everytime I have to have an interaction with my ex he makes a whole fricking song and dance

[fluffythevampirestabber]

No doubt many of you have read the tales on here of my ex and the lovely ways he has to wind me up.

But I've ended up not able to sleep because of him last night - and I know this is minor and I know I have to just deal with it. But - how do you get over when the other parent keeps doing something you have asked them not to?

He's claiming that it all "just happens" and he's not doing it to piss me off - he accused me (again) of being deranged and over-controlling last night.

Also if it isn't a normal week (eg this week is half term here for the kids) and I say we need to discuss drop offs because it's not normal with it being half term, he does this enormous sigh, pained look and rolls his eyes. Then doesn't listen to what I say, suggests something that if he'd listened to what I say isn't going to work, and then goes snippy when I say you haven't listened.

Any words of wisdom to stop me getting upset?

Mamas - I live in a very rural area. There is not a bus or a train that the girls can get to go to his house. I have to take them or he has to come here - he refuses to meet half way as I have said.

And I will admit, I am not prepared to have the kids go to school with their clothes in black bags to bring them back to me. They already get enough teasing and verging on bullying because they have parents who aren't together I am not going to make that worse.

Also, as I have stated there is a bit more to it than saying this about me but that is something I'm not going to discuss on a public forum. What I can say is that rather than there being legal action he agreed to things via solicitors. Which he has not kept to, and therefore I am seriously considering taking things further.

I am not will not and would not send them to a neighbour for the pick up. I am not prepared to involve a neighbour in this. I would not feel comfortable with that.

What they do/wear when with him isn't my responsiblity and I do leave them to it but my DD1 is 13 she wants to wear her nice clothes when she is meeting her friends. She takes the stuff to his and I don't get it back. Since I have paid for it, I want it back - I want the pleasure of taking them out on a Saturday afternoon dresses nicely in the clothes I bought and he should not be able to manipulate so that he keeps them.

I should also explain that he is a fundamentalist Christian and does not agree with a lot of the clothes that the girls wear. Trousers, especially jeans are a no no. (unless old trousers for mucky work) Skirts should not be above the knee. Cropped jackets and vest tops are not appropriate. So he is keeping the stuff to stop the girls wearing it, as he deems it unsuitable. (He doesn't say that but I am not stupid)

If I didn't let her take clothes to his house, she would have to wear clothes that are 25/30 years old and belonged to his sister. She has been in tears over it - he doesn't care, but I do. And as I said normally its one outfit each but over holidays it always goes a bit wrong.

he sounds nuts - but if he not going to let them wear their clothes (or certain of their clothes) no point the clothes going there.

like if he was strict muslim they would have to maybe cover up in his home etc.

clearly his parenting style is different to say the least - however your dd 14 is old anough to vote with her feet....

alll you can do is acknowledge her pain at ahivng to wear cr&p clothes when with him - and point out to her that you prepared to listen to her view - no court is going to make her go to her dads at her age if she wants to cut back on the visits.

but you say "i" paid for the clothes "I" want them back - make it more about DDs not you??

tell DDS -if you chose to take your short black dress to dad's hosue you know we wont get it back- so dont take it there.

they gonna have to choose nice clothes that nonetheless match his requirements when they stay there.

his rules.

or they can refuse to stay there - their choice now they older.....

I'm not a big fan of courts, but he does sound difficult, do the children want to go to him?

I'm trying to imagine tryingg to tell my children what to wear, apart from the fact I wouldn't, they'd go mad at me.

I'd get advice from a solicitor.

Fundamental anythings are a nightmare.

Cestlavie - wrt the I paid for the clothes - that wasn't clear - I should say I'm a university student, on a very low income I simply cannot afford to replace them, even with Primark/Tesco clothes so I need the clothes back here so I have clothes for them to wear - there has been situations where DD2 has had to wear wellies/school shoes because I don't have shoes here for her for example.

Children don't mind going, youllbewaiting, but the clothes thing is only an issue at holidays - normally they come and go in uniform, have old stuff there to wear evenings and at weekends, as I've said, there is usually one decent outfit each there that I send (even down to the shoes) but it all goes a bit wrong at holidays. Plus, at 13 DD1 wants to wear her nice stuff and it would be denying her not to let her wear it.

You cannot imagine the level of control he exerts. And unless you've dealt with someone like him, with the greatest of respect, you never ever will. (And I hope with all my heart you never do). As an example, at the age of 37 I was stopping my car in a layby on the way to work to put my make up on. And stopping in the same layby on the way home to take it off.

I will get the stuff back this weekend but it's just such a song and dance.

you wont be denying her though and she will know that.

it comes from dad not you. between her and her dad really.

i still think tho it needs to be couched in they need the clothes back
the dds need ...

not you needing them.

and i do understand i used to do little tricks to avoid outbursts - question is, as the dds are growing up, how will they learn to stand up to him?

or - apart form the clothes thing - do they enjoy going there and his company?

They go. That's all I know. I don't ask into their relationship with him because it's really not my business.

I will hold my hands up and say again, I am not prepared to have my child make a mockery of and feel humiliated because he won't buy her fashionable clothes.

I don't think many people would - I don't think I'm abnormal in that.

He knows the DDs need to get the clothes back, and as I have said repeatedly I will get them back this weekend, the issue is that I have to keep asking for them back and it turns into a whole palaver and a song and dance when there is no need.

Plus I'm not going to apologise for feeling like since I bought them I'm entitled to them back. I want (again, as I've said) the pleasure of taking them out on a Saturday afternoon dressed in nice clothes that me and them picked together and that I bloody paid for.

Fluffy - I've just stumbled across this and feel so much for you

I am also dealing with an ENFW (emotionally needy f*ckwit) who is a controlling, passive aggressive bully

I know how hard it is to explain exactly how much of a nightmare dealing with him is - on the surface, everything seems ok, or even YOU being the unreasonable one!

Fortunately, the few people who deal with both exH and I have learnt from experience - the mediator stopped our sessions when exH accused him of bias, and the headteacher had to ask him to leave when he demanded she remove me from the school contact list.

What has helped me deal with him is learning about various psychological models - such as transactional analysis, so I understand WHY communication breaks down between us and try to prevent it from happening! It's bloody hard work, though!

Thanks NADM - it's so so hard to explain - and yes I know he's using the kids to control me in a way and he's using the fact that I care about them - and I'm not going to stop caring about them.

And all the people who are saying "let her go in the old fashioned clothes" - don't you remember what it was like to be 13? 13 year old girls can be cruel beyond measure.

And as I said, yes I will get the stuff back but it is such a fecking battle when it shouldn't have to be.

With regard to the 'using the kids' issue - I spent some time with a Cllr learning techniques to help me 'let go' of DD when she's in her dads care.

He parents her in a totally different way to me - and my instinct was to step in and prevent avoidable upset, distress or frustration for DD - but I now accept that exH does things differently, and unless DD is at risk of harm, I leave him to it.
Yes,that means she sometimes gets teased at school, misses out on things, or has access to material I'd prefer her not to - and sometimes I have to 'pick up the pieces' when she is sobbing and upset - but I accept that it is a good life lesson for her and it gives her a chance to decide for herself which parenting style she may choose to adopt herself in the future

(it took me 2 years and 6 hours of counselling to get to this point though - not an easy or overnight change!)

NotaDisneyMum - have pm'd you

He sounds very difficult. But I think that perhaps it would be a good thing if you let your DDs see his true colours - by making everything ok for them, e.g. the clothes situation, you're not letting them experience what he's really like. They don't feel the effects of his behaviour because you ameliorate it. Let them see him as he is. I'm totally not a fan of putting DC in the middle, but there comes as time when they're old enough to not be shielded from the more difficult aspects of life.

Just a random thought - your DD is 13 - could she perhaps get a Saturday job and use that money to buy clothes with? Or perhaps give her an allowance? If she has full responsibility for buying her own clothes and she pays for the stuff herself, then she might be a bit more "territorial" about her stuff - it could possibly help her to be a little more assertive with her dad about bringing stuff home with her if she knows it's her responsibility to replace missing things. And he might get a bit better if he knows he's pissing off her and not you.

She can't get a Saturday job. For lots of reasons it wouldn't be possible.

I have given her an allowance and we go together to buy stuff, but at the end of the day it's still my money - he doesn't give her any pocket money.

I know I'm not letting her experience what it's really like WRT the clothes situation but honestly the clothes he would dress her in are like these it's seriously not a joke - long skirts, blouses, not remotely fashionable. Pussy bow collars circa 1980-whatever

And as I have said all along, most of the time there's one outfit up there, but it goes tits up wrt holidays.

And that he doesn't listen to me and trying to organise stuff with him is a nightmare he doesn't pay me any respect for want of a better way to put it.

Fluffy - have PM'd you back - I DO feel for you over the clothes thing, but can only reassure you that although your DD will be devastated/embarrassed etc, she won't be in danger or at risk - and these are the fights that it is safe to leave her to chose whether she tackles herself - whereas there are some issues you have to intervene in order to protect her.

Oh I know - I just don't want her to be made a fool of (and yes I know that's my "fault" for want of a better way to put it)

And most of the time it isn't too bad, but holidays seem to send everything up the left.

next time you and your girls are clothes shopping I wonder if you can find some outfits that he would vaguely approve of and ensure you have a couple of sets of those so they have something to wear at his house. Seriously I would ask on freecycle for clothes for them a lot of people don't have anyone to pass their dcs clothes onto.

The whole thing sounds like a nightmare but honestly your 14 year old is old enough to "babysit" for a few hours when your ex is late collecting them. Perhaps don't go far, just "pretend" to go out (sit in your car a few streets away?)- text the eldest every 15 mins or so. Once he sees he can't control you by turning up late he'll stop doing it!

The only outfits he approves of are ankle length skirts. Honestly. Jeans and a hoodie are a no-no. Shorts and tights are a no-no.

Awh, it'll all come out in the wash - just frickin annoying in the meantime

However, I have The Upgrade arriving tomorrow (and he's staying over) and suffice to say the ex would very definitely NOT approve of what I intend to be wearing or not

LOL

Think I'd send them with alternate clothes hidden in their bags to change into once he's out of sight!

I wonder how long before your dd1 refuses to see him anymore.

Ok - how about maxi skirts and dresses? Lots of those about in the shops right now. She could style them up and not look frumpy.

Have fun with The Upgrade

She is already starting to insist on being here for afternoons with her mates and he picks her up after

As I said somewhere else, the Sunday he phoned me because DD1 was refusing to get dressed appropriately for church and had dug her heels in and was wearing coloured jeans and a top, and he wanted her to wear a sack dress and could I speak to her was a gem.

I said no. Your problem.

she's a bit like her mother contrary.

She won't wear the maxi dresses because he wants her dressed like that.

Plus she doesn't really "do" skirts unless they're very short again like her mother used to be before she got old and fat

But to be serious, he wouldn't be happy with a maxi dress unless it was shapeless, a figure hugging jersey he would not approve of.

He really is an awkward bugger, isn't he!

She'll get fed up soon enough (sounds like she's getting there already). V pleased to hear that she is resisting his controlling behaviour - good for her. Will put her in good stead for when she's forming her own relationships.

Totally Zombie - that's exactly what I am aiming for - to make her strong enough in herself not to fall for one like him iyswim?

Fluffy - it sounds like a complete nightmare - absolutely horrible all the time. The only thing that strikes me (and I hope this is helpful, if its not then please ignore) is that you are still trying to convince people that he is absolutely unreasonable (which he is), as if you are still not 100% sure yourself.

What I mean is, he has so clearly, for so long, made you feel like its all your fault, so you sometimes still wonder if it is. And you are seeking validation to confirm that it is him, not you.

I say this as that was my issue with my mother, and I wanted the world to agree with me. It was only through CBT that I finally came to really believe, myself, that she was unreasonable, not me, and now I don't need to convince the world anymore, as I really believe it myself. (Don't get me wrong, its still really hard sometimes, but its getting easier, and I now have the tools to deal with her)

(Have you had any therapy yourself after getting out of there? I really recommend cognitive behaviour therapy)

I think that once you KNOW, and have absolute confidence in the fact that he is totally unreasonable, however he says things, or whatever he insinuates, then you will find him easier to deal with emotionally (though it sounds like he will always be a pain). In fact it sounds to me like he does most of this stuff because he knows it gets to you.

Bumptious - you're spot on, and I've said it before on here - he eroded all my confidence and left me that I doubted myself over everything, all the time.

Mind, he tried again today over picking up the kids - he sent a text claiming the original plan had changed when it hadn't. I didn't rise to it, I just texted back to say that the plan had been in place since September, there was no reason for that to change and if he needed further clarification of what had been agreed I was happy to fwd him the email he sent me laying out what he had put forward and I had agreed to.

So far, I've not heard anything back.

bumptious - wow, I needed to hear that!

I know it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, but for some reason it is important to me that other people think that exH is an arse!

I know exactly where my self-doubt stems from too; my parents approval of exH leaves me doubting my own judgement - I think I might look into some CBT - thanks for the recommendation