Everytime I have to have an interaction with my ex he makes a whole fricking song and dance

[fluffythevampirestabber]

No doubt many of you have read the tales on here of my ex and the lovely ways he has to wind me up.

But I've ended up not able to sleep because of him last night - and I know this is minor and I know I have to just deal with it. But - how do you get over when the other parent keeps doing something you have asked them not to?

He's claiming that it all "just happens" and he's not doing it to piss me off - he accused me (again) of being deranged and over-controlling last night.

Also if it isn't a normal week (eg this week is half term here for the kids) and I say we need to discuss drop offs because it's not normal with it being half term, he does this enormous sigh, pained look and rolls his eyes. Then doesn't listen to what I say, suggests something that if he'd listened to what I say isn't going to work, and then goes snippy when I say you haven't listened.

Any words of wisdom to stop me getting upset?

The thing is, in my defence, I rant and stuff on here - doesn't mean I rant to his face.

Shiney - in the nicest possible way (and I really don't mean this arsey) your DS is 4. As such, he wears what you tell him, and you pack and organise his stuff by and large I presume. You have much more control over what goes/doesn't go with a 4 year old than with a 13 year old.

In the spirit of trying to let them have more responsibility, and because at 9 and 13 I don't stand over them making sure they have pants/socks packed - they organise themselves. A lot of the issues are around DD1 wanting nice clothes because she's meeting friends while at his house and she has to take stuff from here because he will not buy any clothes. Then if the stuff gets dirty, she takes it off and leaves it in the wash there, and it ends up in the rotation of stuff that's there. Which is fine when it's one outfit, but over the holidays every time there ends up with a few outfits.

And it ends up with a number of outfits there and nothing here.

To be fair, DD1 did say that they weren't expecting to go to Aunt and Uncle's so they didn't have their stuff organised, he just said right girls time to go and as I've said dropped them here before he went back to his house. Which he views as "helping me out" that he dropped them here - his view is that as I am not working, I should do all the drop offs and pick ups when they aren't at school and have to be at each other's houses.

I have tried and tried to suggest a half way point (there's actually a really good place we could do half way) but he could not guarantee to be somewhere at an exact time and that is me trying to control his life. The fact that millions of parents do that on a weekly basis is irrelevant.

Mind you, if you see my other threads, somewhere I mention that the teacher at DD2's school commented that his timekeeping is appalling. It is. Because he views the rest of the world as less important than him therefore they should wait until he deigns to turn up. Which means at least if I do the pickups and drop offs then I'm not sitting waiting for him to turn up. He would (and has in the past) regularly be 2-3 hours late dropping off or picking up, as he gets "caught up in things" and doesn't realise the time.

The thing that stings the most is the constant accusation that none of what happens is ever is fault, that it's all me and that I am over-reacting or deranged and should "go and get your head read". I had more than 20 years of that, that I was always wrong and it has left me with little confidence in my own ability to read a situation - as soon as he says that I start to doubt my own reactions. Am I over-reacting when he does xyz, was it only a joke and funny when he said whatever.

(sorry rant over and OMG it's long)

Can't dd take a black bag with her and put her dirty clothes in that and bring them home instead of leaving them in his house to wash. U know it increases your laundry but it would held to ensure things came back.
What would happen if dd rang him to say dad I've left all my coats (or whatever) in your house and I need them can I come round for them. Will he be arsey with her?

She could bring the dirty stuff back here in a black bag, but most of the pick up/drop offs are done at school (for example he drops off on a Tuesday, I pick up) and that is what will happen at the end of the holidays. So she'd have to take a black bag with all her washing in it to school on the first day back after half term.

I suppose I could go up and get her and DD2 to give me a black bag with the washing, but that's not much different to going and getting the stuff back which I will do this weekend.

Problem with ringing him to get stuff is that he's rarely there if he hasn't got the kids and he doesn't like me at his house if he's not there (DD1 has keys to both houses) and he would bet arsey. Plus, it's a 14 mile round trip to collect the stuff - unless they really really need it I don't always have time to go and get stuff. And he huffs and puffs and complains that we are disturbing him.

As I said, it's normally not too bad except for holidays, and I need to find a way of working the holidays better than they are at the moment.

He is having a great difficulty in understanding that my university does not have a half term - he has made a few snippy comments and I think he doesn't believe me that I'm at uni at all this week. (I am, we have reading weeks for each subject but they are 3 different weeks so I don't have a full week off at all)

What I actually should do is just toughen up and stand up to DD1 and insist that all the stuff comes back here, sort out one outfit and then that's all that gets worn. Which I will do for the millionth time but it's just so draining.

Part of my resentment is that he agreed to certain things, and he hasn't stuck to it, they are important to me and he's just not bothering because he doesn't thing they're important and he only agreed to them to shut me up.

Your love and concern for your DCs is being used against you
As shineon says, detaching is the only way to go

Get everything in email including drop off/ pick ups and then try your hardest not to alter them yourself so you have no need to contact him.
If things change, whoever was supposed to do it remains responsible for the change. Make this clear when he asks for change.

When your car was being serviced, rather than ask him, get a friend or relative to take you or even get a taxi if you can afford it. You would have not needed to contact him at all - "disengaging here"

The ILs are being used against you cos he knows it upsets you, However you cannot control who the DCs are with in his contact time. If they are unhappy listen to them of course but tell them they need to bring it up with dad

Really feel for you

I do know I can't control who he takes the dc's to in his time but it's annoying when he's made an agreement via the solicitors and doesn't stick to it.

For example (not to take the in-laws example as it's very specific to me and would out me) he agreed that WRT pick ups - when he did them - he would stick to the agreed time and that if something happened and he needed to change it by more than half an hour, he would give me 24 hours notice of the change and I would have the right to refuse the change and he would stick to the original agreement.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just does not happen. Ever. He turns up when it suits him. For example, he asks me to pick the kids up on a day when he normally has them. All confirmed by email I will collect them after school and keep them til 5.15pm he will collect them then and give them tea at his house.

5.15 comes and goes. 5.30 comes and goes. I text him "Are you far away. need to know when you will be here. should I feed kids". Try to phone him he cuts me off and then phone goes direct to voicemail.

Eventually I feed kids we go about our evening, friend is pissed off as cinema at 7.30 gets cancelled because by 7pm he still hasn't shown up. Eventually he turns up at 7.40.

I should realise he was working. I am trying to control him. He turned up as soon as he could. No he didn't cut me off his phone battery died. And there was no mobile signal. And he was driving as fast as he could to get to me as soon as possible. I am totally inflexible. Unlike me who does not go to work he has to work and it doesn't always go according to plan.

Thing is I wouldn't mind if it was once in a blue moon, but it's every bloody time. He puts no value on the fact that he has promised to be at mine at a certain time, I get put to the bottom of the pile and I am expected to enable him to do whatever he wants.

That's why I do the pick ups and drop offs as at least I know they will happen at a certain time. Although, thinking about it, he even manipulated me into that - "I don't know when I'm going to be back so the best thing would be for you to keep the kids and I'll ring/text when I get home and you can drop them up"

And of course, he never ever does any of it on purpose. It all just happens accidentally and I need to learn to relax and chill out.

At 14 your DC1 can be left with DC2, you go to the cinema as planned, when he realises that your plans are going to be disrupted he may ease up

He knows my plans get disrupted. He doesn't care. He doesn't deliberately be late to disrupt my plans, my plans are not relevant to him. That's what he says. I have told him that I don't care what his reasons are for not doing as agreed, they aren't relevant to me, what is relevant is the end result.

But at the end of the day, I know as well as he does that a court isn't going to concern itself with trifles like him being an hour late to pick the kids up, and he can legitimately claim that I agreed to do pick up drop offs and he offered it so as to minimise the disruption to me.

You have no idea what dealing with someone like him is like. He's so careful in what he says to put it all in reasonable terms and if you see one or two instances it seems like I'm over reacting but it's every fucking week he thinks of something. And it's all couched in such careful language.

BTW I know I sound spectacularly whiney and moany. But I am at the end of my rope with it. I need to take more control and toughen up and that will happen but I don't want the kids to suffer and I have to try to just realise that he's the one causing them to suffer not me and get my head around that

But Finally is right - it feels like he's using my care for the DD's against me.

That's true - well dd2 is 9 so I have at least another 7 years of this.

And it's the whole song and dance and huffing and puffing he does. He blames me for the fact that the kids have holidays. They have no need of a week off. When he was at school half term was 2 days. Are they off AGAIN. Huff puff I suppose you'll expect me to have them half the holidays.

No, if it doesn't suit you to have them as per our agreement, let me know what times you want them and I will organise accordingly

(Agreement is half of holidays)

And he hates when I say no and makes his disapproval clear. Like if I say no I can't I have uni at that time or I have plans that evening then he implies I don't care enough about the kids. But as I said, he's careful - it's all nuances and implications and tone, he's not daft enough to come right out and say it.

No you are not whiny & moany, like me you use MN as a venting place ( I haven't started yet, but I have a few similar threads brewing in my head!) & that's healthy as it stops you saying stuff to him that is satisfying at the moment but will only reinforce his arseyness to you.

The clothes thing Drives.Me.Mad. Stuff is ALWAYS in the wrong place, but if I ask him to ensure they get sent back with stuff he moans " they have to have something to wear here" but he won't spend a bean on them, over his maintenance. Grrrr sorry another thread there!

Ok WRT to you taxiing the DD's around. Refuse to. I don't see why he can't pick them up from school, but if it's impossible then drop them off at his as they have keys. At 14 your DD1 can cope looking after them both for a few hours I would have thought, he'll have to make the effort to get back then.

WRT the clothes thing could you drop by his house on the way back from school after access w/e's & let the DD's pop in & collect dirty stuff? Don't ask his permission every time, tell him once, calmly (by email) that's what you're doing in future.

Thinking of the legal agreement, could you find your hard copy of it & highlight the bit about access arrangements scan it in & email it to him with a short covering letter reminding him of the mutually agreed terms. Tell him unloess things improve you will be seeking legal advice.

You don't need to go back to court about it, but seeing your solicitor for a one off reminder letter might work.

I'm doing a law degree - that drives him insane because I have legal advice on tap so to speak

That's what I do the dropping in to get stuff but it just turns into such a fricking song and dance every time. As I said, I have school times down pretty pat but holidays are an issue. He has them this weekend and I will make sure they go with all their uniform requirements so he can send them to school on monday morning - wonder how he would feel if I did it to him? But then the kids would suffer and he would mess me about all weekend wrt to picking the stuff up and I could be mid shagfest at the time since I'm seeing the upgrade

thing is, i think now kids older it is for them to negotiate and discuss with their dad about clothes etc - and even drop offs - 14 year old can sit in with younger and wait for you. not thru you any more.

eg you could agree on one (or two) nice outfit(s) each is bought from primark which stays at dad's all the time. plus extra underwear etc. if he doesnt get it washed/let them wear it -well it is between them and dad. not you.

more and more you should solely be taxi service etc - not getting involved?

Normally, cestlavie, there is only one good outfit at his. But this goes wibbly at holiday times.

His view is that I should provide all underwear/clothes and he refuses to buy even as much as a pair of pants.

I will be insisting that the stuff comes back to mine after the weekend - DD1 and DD2 have both been told to gather all stuff up and make sure it is there for me to collect.

But it shouldn't have to be this much hassle.

i dunno it just sounds likea lot of hassle.

and - yes you right it becoming a big drama when it shouldnt be.
and dc getting stuck in middle of it - it shoudl be straightforward - off you go to dad's bye...

write the money off, leave it there, get new underwear/coats from tesco or primark. let the dc sort it out if they want particular clothes here or there.

i guess if he paying maintenance he considers clothers come out of that? just only ever buy cheap stuff - til they really old enough to sort it out themselves.

He's just left with them. I have sent DD2 deliberately in an older coat (ie not the decent coat I like on her)

DD1 is in the clothes she took to the sleepover and has been told I need them back.

He sat in the car and beeped the horn as it is raining and when the kids opened the boot to put their stuff in he huffed and snapped at them to hurry up it was raining.

Wound the passenger window down in the car, beckoned me with his finger (in the pissing rain), I stood in the porch as he asked "Anything I need to know about" I said no, turned on my heel and went in the house.

WANKER

Now to go to uni and try to get my head around coursework and seminars. because you realise I don't work

BTW - maintenance?? HA HA HA

Self employed, good accountant. I have no chance.

But he HAS to pay you something surely? What do you live on? (sorry nosey)

The DD' s need to start with the nagging, get him to pay for SOMETHING??!

Student loan and tax credit.

It's tight but do-able. And I can't say I didn't know what it would be like before I left. And when I get my big job with my fancy degree sure it won't matter

fluffy you have only just started the disengagement you have a bit to go.
Who cares what he thinks/says or what you think he thinks/says to others.
Who the fuck cares, others will certainly have the measure of this wanker.

Stop trying to get inside his head and think what he is thinking/reasoning, fuck him.
Stop letting him get inside your head.
He does not matter anymore.

Dcs can look after themselves or you send them to a neighbours and get them to text him to say where they are for the pick up. It's his problem.
The clothes and stuff, it is between him and his dcs what they do at his so that means what they wear/clean clothes etc. Tell dds that this is now between them and their dad. (get your head out of his place)
Tell your dds this that they will not be taking anything else there and from now on you will just shrug your shoulders. good luck

Get the girls to do most of the communicating.

Trouble is mamas12 with 2 DD's it's all very well saying shrug shoulders but it hurts when the bastard Ex upsets HIS daughters over clothes. To them it's SO important, it's their identity.

I have exactly the same problem as fluffy, I try to disengage & mine are getting better at negociating for themselves but it's bloody hard & that's where they know they (the exes) have you as a mum. The kids will always be our achilles heel as we want them to be happy & feel guilty if we don't help, even though we shouldn't!

I have also been in this situation.
It is horrible to witness the abuse your ex bestows upon your children. But you have to be clever and make sure gently but matter of factly that both the dcs and the ex know it's all his fault.
Mine are also starting to distance themselves a lot more now as they older and are able to do their own thing and he is missing out massively.
i still agonise over what sometimes happens to them at his house but all I can do is be here for them.

get him out of your head. make arrangements for the dcs to get buses trains etc so that they can't take all their clothes with them just keep yourself out of their arrangements as much as poss. The girls will really learn to look after thier own clothes.

how much do you get involved with their arguments with their friends at school? do you leave them to sort it out between them? do you jsut give them ideas of what to say and do or do you amrch up to the girl involved and tell them what is what?

maybe it is same thing - ex is not your responsibility; what they do with him / wear when there etc is none of your business really - if they come to you for support give them ideas how to deal with it.

his relationship wtih DDs is not your responsibility any more

i think our job is to give our dc tools to deal with their other parent - not manage that relationship for them. ie let go a little (a lot)