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Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

I want to appeal CSA decision.

128 replies

Essexmumof3 · 13/02/2011 00:28

Ex and I split up 8 years ago - we had an arrangement for him to pay £300 a month maintenance for our DD which he kept to.
DD started secondary school in September and costs rose for lunches, school bus, trips and going out at weekends with friends etc... teenagers are expensive!!
I asked ex for more money to help but he said he couldn't afford it as he has a new wife and 2 other children.
I contacted the CSA and they have done an assessment on him and have come back with £14 a week maintenance !!! How can anyone cope on that? It's a joke - she costs me that a day. I asked them to look at it again and they have come back and said they believe the amount is correct but I can appeal if I want to.
If he could manage £300 a month before surely he shouldn't pay any less now - ex is saying he will pay what CSA want and no more but I can't meet the bills on £60 a month. I know his new wife works so they must have more income than that.
Has anyone else appealed a CSA decision? How does the system work? Is it enough to show what he was paying previously as proof he can afford more? Even if it goes back to £300 a month it would be better.

OP posts:
goodkate · 13/02/2011 21:12

Some people are unbelievably harsh on here!

The CSA is a nightmare to deal with FULLSTOP!

Appeal but also let your DD see his father, as he will blame you in the end for not seeing him, not him.

Always appeal , it could because he is contributing to a pension and the CSA cocks everything up. Don't worry about the changes thats a long way off yet.

Keep a note of every phone call to the CSA with a date. And stay firm with them plus don't take it out on DD and his relationship with his father.

evolucy7 · 13/02/2011 21:12

I have successfully appealed against a CSA calculaion. My ex however, has started his own company but is employed by it, but did claim he just pays himself the £5k tax free as a salary, this gave me £5 per week for 2 children. He has no other children. I told them this was bs of course he didn't live on £88 per week (after he had paid in to his pension). I filled out a variation application form and they then recalculated to significantly more. In the variation application form, I said that it was unbelievable that they found it reasonable that he paid for housing etc on £88 per week, amongst other issues about looking at the company bank accounts, and if this was not resolved I would contact my MP. I actually had no real evidence just said that it was ridiculous if they believed what he had said, because it was.
They recalculated pretty quickly.
But I am not sure what to do if he is employed, do you have any idea of what he does and what you might actually expect his income to be? Could he do more than 1 job?

pleasechange · 13/02/2011 21:16

goodkate I'm genuinely interested - in what way are people on here being unbelievably harsh?

ChocHobNob · 13/02/2011 21:17

evo, was your ex living alone?

evolucy7 · 13/02/2011 21:18

Yes he lives alone.

ChocHobNob · 13/02/2011 21:20

So yes, it would be difficult to live on £88 a week alone. In the OP's case, it is quite possible the ex earns a low wage and his wife could be the bread winner.

RailwayChild · 13/02/2011 21:23

If it's not what you want to hear it can seem harsh but sometimes you need to change your outlook to move forward

evolucy7 · 13/02/2011 21:35

Choc..I agree yes it's possible that he could live on that. I was just giving my experience on appealing a CSA calculation and wondering if OP had any ideas of what he earns, presumably she did when they split and agreed on the £300.

ChocHobNob · 13/02/2011 21:43

I get what you mean, was just posting as the CSA wouldn't need evidence in your case. The evidence is there. £88 a week isn't enough to home a single man, especially when he's choosing to pay into a pension as well. Where as in the OP's case, it is different.

Snorbs · 13/02/2011 21:43

Essexmumof3, so if you have two older children from one ex, and this DD who has just started secondary from another, does that mean you're on JSA rather than Income Support?

If so, does the Job Centre know that you have no intention of getting a job? Or do you just go in there every fortnight to sign on while pretending that you've been looking for work?

SoftKittyWarmKitty · 13/02/2011 21:49

This thread seems to have expanded a bit from your inital query, and I wanted to pick up on some of the things you've said since I was on here earlier.

"Regardless of whether my ex has contact she is still his daughter and he should support her financially - which isn't possible on £14 a week."
But if that's 15% of his net earnings, that's all he needs to pay according to the CSA, therefore he is supporting her financially. If you are struggling to cope you may need to look into budgeting more - change utilities to cheaper ones, cut any luxuries, drop down a brand at the supermarket. I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs here, but there's a lot of good advice on Money Saving Expert.com.

"Why should it matter if his wife was helping to pay the maintenance before? Like I said they could afford it or it would have been reduced a long time ago."
No it wouldn't have been reduced because you had a private arrangement. How do you know they could afford it? How do you know they aren't struggling? I have a friend who's DH pays maintenance to his son from a previous relationship. He pays quite a lot, but he has two children with his new wife and although she also works, they are struggling to make the payments. So you don't really know what's going on behind closed doors.

"The reason our split was messy is because he left me for her. I was with him for 6 years then he left and in less than a year had married her. Yes I was upset and I didn't want my daughter to see her father with someone else. I also didn't want to have to explain why he married someone else and not her mother. That woman took my partner and my daughter's father so she should imo be paying for that."
Oh dear, you sound very bitter tbh. Kind of understandable under the circumstances but it was years ago and you have to let it go and move on. I say this with all sincerity and the best of intentions, but have you thought about counselling? It can work wonders when dealing with emotive issues like this (trust me, I know!). And sorry, but no, his new wife shouldn't be paying for what happened. She didn't hold a gun at his head, he left of his own free will. As you'll have read in my first post to you, similar happened to me so I'm not without sympathy but you can't lay the blame at her door, then punish your ex by denying him contact. It's not on.

"Oh and I do think his new wife has obligations towards my daughter - she was the OW and caused our split."
As I said above, he chose to leave and she has no obligations to your daughter whatsoever.

"He did get solicitors involved but he never took it to court so he couldn't have cared that much about contact or he would have tried harder. He is as much to blame for the non-contact as I am."
Yes perhaps he could have tried harder but as someone said above, maybe he didn't want to prolong the hurt. Also, it should never have got to the point where he had to approach a solicitor. Your statement that he's as much to blame for the non-contact is just your way of transferring the guilt and your argument doesn't hold water.

"I don't think my dd would want to see him anyway its been too long and she never seems bothered about it."
You're putting words in her mouth. Have you asked her? I mean, actually said that if she wants to see her dad she can, and asked her if she'd like to see him? She might think you'll be upset or angry with her if she expresses an interest in seeing him - you come across as very angry about it on here, so no doubt at times this is vocalised in real life too - so this may put her off mentioning it. And the only reason it's been too long is because you let it get to this point. Bear in mind that this may bite you on the bum when she is old enough to find him by herself and realises you prevented contact.

"Softkittywarmkitty - you say the CSA will be closing all the cases - does that mean I can go back to the private arrangement then or do the CSA assessments still stand and are just paid privately ?"
No, you will only go back to the private arrangement if your ex agrees, and by the sounds of it he won't. So you'll need to pay to reapply and they'll start looking into your case from scratch. Except you'll receive even less money, because the CSA will then take a percentage of your maintenance as their fee.

"I think it is unfair that he has his wife bringing in money while I am left struggling. I gave up work to be a sahm when my eldest child (not his) was born and I haven't worked for 16 years so the chances of getting a job now are slim to zero."
She has her own business and that must be very stressful, so she probably works very hard and deserves that money. You chose to give up work. Don't begrudge someone who's worked hard their financial reward. You get out what you put in. And on that note, depending on what kind of work you fancy doing, but to get experience of retail maybe you could volunteer in a charity shop a couple of days a week, or volunteer in a school? At the same time you could do an OU course or course at the local college. If you don't work, the fees will probably be paid for you.

"my other ex can't increase the amount he pays."
Why should he? Your DD isn't his so she's not his responsibility. Also don't forget that if you have one son who's 16, his dad won't legally have to pay maintenance once he's out of education, so you may need to prepare for a further drop in income in the next few years.

"My children need me there when they come home from school and I have no skills so getting a job would be very hard after all this time. I could only do part time and I'd need all the holidays off because of the children."
Rubbish. I'm a lone parent, and when my DS was 6 months old I went back to work full time. DS went to nursery 3 days per week and to my parents 2 days. If you work you will get working tax credits towards your childcare. Now my DS is at school and I work part time 3 full days per week, and on those days my parents do the school run. I don't get the holidays off but I'm lucky as my parents have him the days I'm working in the holidays. But if they didn't, I'd probably use a childminder. Again, working tax credits would help with the costs of this. Realistically, how many jobs take place in school hours with school holidays off? Not many, and those that do are rare as rocking horse shit as all mothers (and some fathers, no doubt) would ideally like to work those hours. But we don't live in an ideal world and I think you need to expand your horizons a bit rather than dismiss any job that's not strictly within the school timetable.

I'm assuming as you don't work that you're on income support? Not sure if you're aware, but new rules are coming in (I think in 2012) where a lone parent whose youngest child is 5 or above will be moved from IS to JSA and expected to look for work. If they don't find work within 12 months, their Housing Benefit will be cut by 10% (not sure if you receive HB?). With all this in mind, and bearing in mind your kids are getting older so won't be entitled to CB and maintenance once they are in their mid/late teens, you may want to look into preparing yourself to get a job sooner rather than later.

evolucy7 · 13/02/2011 21:53

I was wondering the same....Hmm

Choc...yes I agree, as a thought for OP if she did know what he earnt before and what his job is now, is it the same, she may be able to appeal on the basis that if nothing much has fundamentally changed in his job and income, if £300 was reasonable before, and if it has been paid for 8 years it must have been fairly well calculated or wouldn't he have just stopped paying, especially if he doesn't even see DD. How many men would really just pay an amount that they struggled with, but actually they could just stop at any time, but not make any effort to see the child. I am a little confused by that. If a man is decent enough to make a decent payment, why wouldn't he want to see the child.

corlan · 13/02/2011 21:59

Essexmum - Most single parents work. We have to.
There are unskilled part-time jobs around. The pay is usually lousy but it can be topped up by working family tax credits if you work 16 hours or more per week. You should also get help with the cost of child care in the school holidays.
If your XP is working full time, I find it hard to believe that he is only bringing in enough to pay £14 a week for your child. Despite that,
you know what? It may do you good to get a job and earn your own money to support your kids and it will set a good example to your daughter.

Essexmumof3 · 13/02/2011 22:19

I have a new partner who lives with me so he contributes to the rent and the bills but it's not his place to pay for my children.
I do get child benefit for my youngest plus there are tax credits for them too but the maintenance makes a big difference. So no I don't claim jobseekers or income support.
The maintenance from my ex really made a difference to the money coming in.

Evolucy yes he has changed his job since we split - he is an older man and he gets a pension and works part time in the evenings. That is what the CSA are using as his income. His parents tell me that he now looks after his children while his wife works so yes she probably is the bread winner.
When we split he was working full time but the company he worked for went bust. So yes it's likely his wife was paying some of the £300 a month I got.
You said you filled out a variation form ? How do I get one of those - and how long did it take for you? The letter I have says I have a month to appeal.

OP posts:
evolucy7 · 13/02/2011 22:26

Ring and ask the CSA to send you a variation form to appeal the decision. I filled out the form early December I think, by end of January they had recalculated. I have no idea but do the CSA not take his income from a pension into account?

corlan · 13/02/2011 22:26

You really sound like you want to have your cake and eat it too!

It's not your partners place to pay for your children but it you reckon it is the place of your XP's wife to pay for them?

He works part-time which explains why the CSA has calculated his payments at such a low level.

The more you reveal, the more unreasonable you sound. You need to get off your bum and get a job like the rest of us.

SoftKittyWarmKitty · 13/02/2011 22:34

Earlier on you stated that his circumstances haven't changed, but clearly they have as he's gone from full time to part time evening work. If he's only working part time in the evenings he probably won't be earning much and he's most likely been assessed correctly and you won't win your appeal. By all means go ahead and give it a go, but don't have any expectations of winning, then you won't be disappointed. Tbh you should be grateful that his new wife has contributed to his maintenance payments over the years since his other company went bust, otherwise your payment would have been reduced years ago.

Just a point but you say it's not your new partner's place to pay for your children - so by the same account, it's not your ex's wife's place to pay for your children. You can't have one rule for one, and a different rule for another.

SoftKittyWarmKitty · 13/02/2011 22:35

Cross posted with corlan - great minds, and all that!

Niceguy2 · 13/02/2011 22:42

I'm beginning to smell a wind up. Surely no-one is that tapped in the head?

So let me get this straight. Your ex's wife in your opinion be paying to support your DD but at the same time its not YOUR partner's place to pay for your kids?

Your eldest is old enough that he no longer gets child benefit and surprise surprise you now need more cash.......

You couldn't possibly work since your kids need you to be at home yet you have a partner and also your eldest ? Give me a break love. I've worked for the last 8 years whilst being a single dad with no support. You are frankly insulting our intelligence with that feeble excuse.

I'm actually gobsmacked that despite the fact your ex is on part time hours that you insist upon more than £300 a month.

Frankly I'm glad the CSA have reduced your maintenance. You were being greedy and karma bit you in the ass.

mumcanIaskaquestion · 13/02/2011 22:43

Ok I read the whole thread.

And basically what your saying is that because you no longer get children benifit for your eldest child, then your EX partner/wife who is not related to her in any way should make up the difference.

I'm sorry to say but you are coming across a one very selfish person.

You want your ex to make up the difference when it's got nothing to do with him.

You stopped any relationship your dd may have had with her dad and his family.

I think you realy need to sort yourself out and start thinking about someone else your DD and let her have a relationship with father.
I hope you can explainyour DD when she older all of your choices.

And get a job, just because you haven't work for 16yrs that not an excuse why not getting a job now and start looking after yourself
and family.

PatriciaHolm · 13/02/2011 22:44

"he is an older man and he gets a pension and works part time in the evenings. That is what the CSA are using as his income. "

Well, that's right, then isn't it?

You say your partner shouldn't contribute towards your children. Well, your ex's partner shouldn't either then, by your own logic? Maybe she has been for a number of years, but she was under no obligation - legal or otherwise - to do so.

It sounds that the CSA probably have got it right, given his change in circumstances. Maybe you should look at getting a job?

NonnoMum · 13/02/2011 22:50

Fascinating thread..

Your DP who lives with you and is part of your household has no obligation to contribute to your children, yet your EXp's new wife (who I assume has never even met your DD) has been contributing to maintaining your DD for several years whilst she build up her business and supported her own kids.

Really?

Essexmumof3 · 13/02/2011 22:50

SoftKitty what I meant when I said his circumstances haven't changed is that they haven't changed recently. He has been working part-time for a few years, it's not only just happened.
Circumstances are the same now as they have been for a long time, that's why I feel it's so unfair. If he had reduced the money when he lost his job then ok, but he didn't. I assumed they kept it up through guilt.
Evo - as far as I know they have taken his pension and his part time income into account.

I don't get why so many on here are telling me I should get a job - why shouldn't my ex go out and get a full time job then he could contribute more again? Like a few of you say it works both ways. Their children are younger so they could get childcare tax credits I can't because my children are older so Id have to pay childcare from any wages.
I do think that their set up of his wife working full time and him not is a way of evading the CSA system.

OP posts:
mamatomany · 13/02/2011 22:51

Go straight to a tribunal, I thought you had to go through all the appeals but you don't you can go straight to a tribunal and they will look at his tax returns and the other factors involved in the calculations and make a decision.
However how about going to him directly and saying look I fcuked up, I do need more than £300 a month but I appreciate if that's all you can afford can I have that amount towards our child's up keep.

NonnoMum · 13/02/2011 22:51

No, it isn't, because HE didn't involve the CSA - YOU did.