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Richmond Borough Schools Chat 9

580 replies

ChrisSquire2 · 26/09/2016 11:07

This thread follows on from Richmond Borough Schools Chat 8 starting February 2016.
News and opinions on all the changes to schools in Richmond borough.

See also:

Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7 starting May 2015

Links to earlier threads (1-6), starting in February 2011

OP posts:
Emilyontmoor · 05/12/2018 20:38

Also worth highlighting that Fulham Boys' School started with some wealthy and influential sponsors who gained the patronage of local politicians (again links upthread) such as Boris Johnson, then mayor, who helped clear the way for the school to be established and given a site, by portraying the proposal as grounded in the sort of rugged conservative Anglicanism that they experienced at Eton and other public schools which evidently does not share the emphasis on responsible and faithful manhood to which women should submit that Mr Ebenezer espouses Grin . The political ground was/is not as fertile here especially given the divisive and expensive battle that Lord True, the previous Conservative leader, had to fight to establish the exclusive faith school, St Richard Reynolds (a personal legacy project) which contributed to the unpopularity that helped to lead to the election of the Libdems. They will certainly have even less sympathy with conservative evangelical values....

HappyDads · 09/12/2018 07:18

Emilyontmoor - a couple of questions for transparency.

You mention that "the three most active proposers Mr Buggs, the Headmaster of Fulham Boys School and the leader of the Duke Street Church are prominent and influential Christian Evangelicals with International connections to America and there is no shortage of evidence that they believe in and proselytise an agenda that is creationist, misogynist, homophobic and anti abortion"

Misognynist and homophobic fall under "traditional views on marriage" i.e. complementarianism for conservatives, that's backed up by sermons.

  1. As you raised it, I'm interested in specific evidence on the international connections Duke Street and Mr Buggs (as a member) have to America?

Also what evidence is there to show an institutional belief in creationism or anti-abortion?

  1. For the benefit of people here with less experience than yourself, what is the correct route or process for us to ensure Buggs et al clarify the ethos for the school?

Thanks for your help in raising all this btw.

Emilyontmoor · 11/12/2018 22:37

Happy Dad If you go back to mid October on this thread you will see that links were posted as the background to the school bid was researched, including to sermons etc.

I don't agree that traditional mainstream christian views on marriage would be consistent with Christian Evangelical beliefs eg the Complementarianism proselytised by the International Outreach Director of the American Evangelical Council for Womanhood and Manhood (who spent a week at Fulham Boys' School) as set out in his book. [http://www.gavinpeacock.net/the-grand-design]
Traditional girls' CofE schools have never in my lifetime offered that as the model for their pupil's futures but rather have always empowered girls to aspire to success in whatever field they chose. Looking at the website of Lady Margaret School (which is near Fulham Boys' School and has long been very popular and perhaps explains the demand for a boys faith school in the area) I see no suggestion that the school's strategy for female empowerment is any different to the one my own CofE school had in what my children refer to as Victorian times Hmm. It wasn't but actually that was actually the ethos many of those schools had had since first established in Victorian / Edwardian times. Whilst I agree the same cannot be said for views on same sex marriage actually the struggle within the CofE on the issue (and on women priests) has arisen just as much as a result of opposition from the Evangelical constituency.

I think you need to disentangle traditional from Conservative Evangelical/ Fundamentalist. Conservative Evangelicals believe in a literal translation of the bible so you cannot separate creationism from their belief that God offered Adam and Eve as the model for mankind as set out in the bible and complementarianism as a celebration of Gods creation (as set out in the "Grand Design" bumf in the link above). Their beliefs are also most definitely anti abortion.

If you look at the Headmasters and Chaplains blogs Mr Ebenezer, the Headmaster, quite specifically wants all these issues to be discussed openly by the boys at Fulham Boys School. Now obviously we want our children to discuss all issues of religious belief but according to the DofE's "British" values this should be done in an atmosphere that promotes equality, and the theory of creationism definitely should not be given equivalence to the theory of Evolution which Mr Ebenezer proposes in a recent blog. Implicit in that is that it should be taught in the Science curriculum but it is definitely not part of the national curriculum. I just don't see how Mr Ebenezer's robust views are consistent with British values (unless of course white fundamentalism is somehow exempt Hmm). I think the school's proposal should have been honest about the background of the proposers and the agenda they want aired at the school (as outlined in the headmasters blogs for FBS) so parents can decide if that is what they want for their children...

As to International links the international nature of christian evangelical networks both theological and financial, particularly in relation to the US, manifest themselves in lots of ways you can track down online. There was the week long visit of the International Outreach Officer of an American Evangelical Organisation to Fulham Boys' School already mentioned. Mr Budds has written up his Adam and Eve work for a magazine called Evolution News [https://evolutionnews.org/2017/10/does-science-rule-out-a-first-human-pair-geneticist-richard-buggs-says-no/] which is based in Seattle and describes itself as "Evolution News & Science Today is a great tool for countering pro-Darwin propaganda. And for opening minds.

The spirit of the age says mindless evolution turned microbes into men. It whispers this “fact” in countless classrooms, textbooks, and academic articles. The media then recycles the message in a steady flood of approving stories.

The writers at Evolution News are our first responders. They wade into this flood of pro-Darwin misinformation and rescue the truth with evidence and logic. In 2017, they published over 750 articles dealing with new scientific findings and philosophical arguments. They provided ammunition to defend the case for intelligent design."

The Duke street Church has £6m in asetts and recieves over £0.5m in donations each year including donations to international evangelical organisations. apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends92/0001134492_AC_20171231_E_C.PDF

When Mr Buggs was actively eliciting support for the school he had several challenges both semi publicly in the Next Door forum and privately but did not take any of the opportunities to uncloak and open up on the proposed schools ethos in relation to eg homosexuality. The proposal has now gone to the DofE and that decision making process is opaque, aside from the Council having an advisory role. It does seem as if it is unlikely they would change the decision on this site though, and there is no need or site for another secondary school so it should not be a worry that they will get to open here (especially as local governing bodies and the Council do now know the background), cloaking the proposal as a local one might actually be an own goal that prevents them from being approved to open elsewhere........

LottieProsser · 12/12/2018 07:40

And over in Whitton...the Turing House School planning application has now gone live on the LB Richmond website: www2.richmond.gov.uk/PlanData2/Planning_CaseNo.aspx?strCASENO=18/3561/FUL

pissupinbrewery · 12/12/2018 10:17

It's looking pretty awesome. They've added a new pedestrian entrance off the rec and a big chunk of the land is now going to be public open space so the rec will be bigger.

Emilyontmoor · 14/12/2018 12:36

It looks considerably more awesome than the Mortlake School Planning Application, basically a massive rectangular block, like Fortress St Richard Reynolds without the benefit of the old block, with barely the space for an all weather multi purpose Sports pitch and a netball court (though that actually is an improvement on the open space provision at Fortress St Richard Reynolds).

There is an objection to the application supposedly from the Headmistress of Twickenham School which if it is genuine, which I doubt, suggests she isn't very articulate or aware of the school place strategy Hmm Hmm Hmm

HappyDads · 15/12/2018 02:08

Hi EmilyontMoor!

Thanks for the information, you've certainly been looking at this and I did read. Btw you said that "I think you need to disentangle traditional from Conservative Evangelical/ Fundamentalist"

Well I'm pretty aware of the differences, and aware that evangelical christians do have different positions too so prefer not to use a broad-brush on folks who for all I know are lovely people with altruistic motives even if I disagree with their beliefs ...

But certainly your concerns are very valid as I agree these beliefs should not be taught or have influence in a state-funded school (I would prefer if education was purely secular these days as it is in France, much clearer!)

It really all comes down to having some kind of transparency, and this seems an opaque process at least for now. Do keep us informed if you learn more.

habberdasherie · 18/12/2018 21:09

St Richard Reynolds are having an admissions consultation: www.strichardreynolds.org.uk/292-consultation-on-admissions-2020-21

TheQuickBrownFox66 · 03/02/2019 19:18

Anyone any thoughts on the St Richard Reynolds Sixth Form? It is on my considering list. However I hear they have 300 places for Sixth Form, yet only 16 currently in Lower Sixth. I do realise it has only recently opened, but I am wondering what they can offer with such low numbers?

LottieProsser · 04/02/2019 21:10

That's tiny and does seem to imply that most of the year group has gone elsewhere even if it was the first cohort which was smaller. We were told back in 2012 that there was a desperate need for a Catholic School in the borough because the children of Catholics couldn't possibly be expected to go to a non Catholic school? Turing House also seems to be planning a 6th form for 150 students each year which implies that they expect 100% of their intake to stay on for the 6th form or be replaced by students moving in from other schools. Perhaps they could have a joint non-sectarian sixth form?! You are right that it's very expensive to have a sixth form for such a small number of students and the options will be very limited. There could also be timetabling problems unless your child is doing a very conventional range of subjects as there will only be one group for each A-level subject. We found that at most of the Borough's sixth forms when my daughter applied.

ClickertyClack101 · 05/02/2019 07:07

I think there are far more in the sixth at SRR. I think the above must be wrong information, though I am not sure if they are full. There is currently only a Lower Sixth.

habberdasherie · 05/02/2019 08:17

QuickBrownFox if it's on your list, did you not go to their open evening? I would have thought that was as good a way as any to find out what they have to offer, and if they really do have low numbers they'll probably be happy to give you a tour any other time too.

But I think I would expect new sixth forms to build up gradually, and start off with mainly their own home grown students until they build a reputation. According to the performance tables,the cohort now in lower sixth at SRR had only average GCSE results, so that might have influenced numbers too. You never know, next year could be different.

PKenn · 11/02/2019 10:40

@quickbrownfox - there's currently a glut of sixth form places across the borough. There is a bulge year coming through into year 6 at the moment (I think) so in a few years maybe these places will be filled. I think it's a shame that the council took the decision to build expensive facilities across the borough with many schools now struggling for funds. Why not choose those sites that had more space etc? But we are where we are. I would ideally like to see schools combine subject offerings (as Teddington and Waldegrave are doing) with kids moving between campuses. Go and see it but ask the questions. I think it's a buyers market at the moment.

richmondmama · 14/02/2019 10:05

Further to the discussion upthread about the proposed Thomas Cromwell School in Mortlake, it appears that the Diocese of Southwark are anxious to dissociate themselves from the proposal.
They have written to all local vicars and Headteachers to make it clear that they have not been consulted or involved in the process.
That's quite a shocking move in my view. I have a copy of the letter if anyone is interested - am afraid I can't seem to post a link without outing myself!

LottieProsser · 27/02/2019 16:03

The Mayor of London's office has given its initial opinion on the siting of Turing House School on Metropolitan Open Land in Whitton. see Mayor's opinion It suggests the case for very special circumstances needed to build on MOL is not yet strong enough and a further site search south of Hounslow is needed - assume this means Feltham/Hanworth? Interestingly it seems to accept that the places are still needed despite the fact that Twickenham Academy is not at all full.

deadlinedaisy · 28/02/2019 13:35

There's something odd about the bit where the report says they should consider Hounslow sites. I think the person who wrote it didn't realise the main admissions point is in a different place to the school site, so they've assumed the catchment will stretch far into Hounslow. As far as I can tell from the school's admissions maps they do have some children from outside the borough, but not many.

There's an RTT article about it now. It all sounds like it's just a normal part of the process: www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/17466492.turing-house-schools-new-site-does-not-fit-with-london-plan/

LottieProsser · 01/03/2019 13:07

I wonder whether the school would consider sharing a sixth form and some sports facilities with Twickenham Academy on the Twickenham Academy site to reduce its footprint. Their 300 place sixth form assumes every pupil will stay there which is completely unrealistic as they won't be able to offer the broad range of subjects and qualification which students are able to access at local colleges. I suppose looking for sites across the boundary could be linked to the fact that a lot of students are coming from Hampton and Hampton Hill so they can get to Hanworth and Feltham fairly easily as can students from Whitton? But I doubt there are many possible sites there either. I would like to see the up to date projections for how many secondary places are needed. It seems that demand has fallen since the original estimates said that two new schools would be needed on the Middlesex side of the borough - maybe due to Brexit and less favourable OFSTEDs meaning more parents than anticipated going private?

deadlinedaisy · 01/03/2019 14:36

I expect they will have to give updated forecasts as evidence to the planning committee when the time comes. I would have thought Brexit would decrease numbers going private not increase them as less financial security and not so many ex-pats around.

LottieProsser · 01/03/2019 15:56

I was just thinking that a lot of Europeans with children in school might have left decreasing the numbers. I remember when I first started reading this thread in about 2012 it was predicted that all the local secondaries would be totally full by about 2016 by which time two new ones needed to be up and running. But I have read that Year 7 in Twickenham Academy is only 35% full. Also spare places in other schools. This could be an exaggeration. I also haven't seen stories about hundreds of children not getting an offer of a secondary school place anywhere near them as used to happen a few years ago.

deadlinedaisy · 01/03/2019 16:18

Well its national offer day today so maybe there'll be some stories like that in the next few days.

This time last year Twickenham School still had an inadequate judgement against it. It must take time to recover from something like that but now they have an RI report and are on an upward curve I expect they will fair better.

europaeus · 02/03/2019 14:43

Here's the updated list, hopefully someone will update in October with wait list offers.

It looks like Grey Court distance has reduced considerably, that is probably the effect of Teddington RI ofsted. We're 2.5km away from GC but we actually listed Teddington SChool first in the end, we did not want our DD to do the awkward commute over Tedd Lock. Out of 5 Collis girls I know who applied for GC, only one got in this year (they would've gotten in last year).

Furthest distance offered at… 	

School National Offer Day 1 Mar 2019
Christ’s School Open places 1.599 km
Grey Court School 2.263 km
Hampton High School Not oversubscribed
Orleans Park School 1.634 km
Richmond Park Academy 2.092 km
St Richard Reynolds Randomly allocated within band 3
Teddington School 4.293 km
Richmond Upon Thames School 2.160 km
Turing House School 20% 6(a) 0.646 km, 80% 6(b) 1.898 km
Twickenham Academy Not oversubscribed
Waldegrave School Area A 1.330 km, Area B 5.374 km

School National Offer Day 1 Mar 2018 By 1 Sep 2018
Christ’s School Open places 1.380 km 2.726km
Grey Court School 3.146 km 3.327 km
Hampton High School Not oversubscribed All preferences met
Orleans Park School 1.530 km 2.562km
Richmond Park Academy 2.981 km 3.206km
St Richard Reynolds Randomly allocated within criterion 2 Randomly allocated within criterion 2
Teddington School 2.660 km All preferences met
Richmond Upon Thames School 3.590 km All preferences met
Turing House School 20% 6(a) 1.308 km, 80% 6(b) 2.457 km 20% 11.648 km, 80% 6.544km
Twickenham Academy Not oversubscribed All preferences met
Waldegrave School Area A 1.533 km, Area B 5.028 km Area A 1.769km, Area B 6.128km

School National Offer Day 1 Mar 2017 By 1 Sep 2017
Christs (open places) 1.291 km 1.344 km
Grey Court 2.941 km 3.788 km
Hampton High Not oversubscribed N/A
Orleans Park 1.611km 2.724 km
Richmond Park Academy Not oversubscribed N/A
St Richard Reynolds Random allocation N/A
Teddington 3.429 km 8.593 km
Richmond Upon Thames School 5.445 km 33.00 km
Turing House 3.235 km 4.137 km
Twickenham Academy Not oversubscribed N/A
Waldegrave Area 1 1.911 km 2.04 km
Waldegrave Area 2 5.304 km 5.719 km

School National Offer Day 1 Mar 2016 By 1 Sep 2016
Christs (open places) 1.438 km 2.532 km
Grey Court 3.243 km 4.314 km
Hampton High Not oversubscribed N/A
Orleans Park 1.466 km 1.786 km
Richmond Park Academy Not oversubscribed N/A
St Richard Reynolds Random allocation N/A
Teddington 2.433 km 5.422 km
Turing House 2.526 km 4.159 km
Twickenham Academy Not oversubscribed N/A
Waldegrave Area 1 1.616 km 1.777 km
Waldegrave Area 2 5.172 km 6.077 km

europaeus · 02/03/2019 15:48

Btw Lottie, I don't think many Europeans left as a result of Brexit. All of my friends who have lived here for years have simply applied for permanent residency and/or citizenship after the referendum. I know that's not representative, but I have not see much exodus talk in media either.

It might be that number of European newcomers has decreased in the past year or so, and after Brexit it will decrease even more, so maybe in the future that will affect school numbers... but I don't think the effect is visible yet.

deadlinedaisy · 02/03/2019 16:14

There may have been a temporary dip in Reception entry numbers during a couple of years of Brexit uncertainty but I'd wager it's a small dip small compared to the growth over recent years and no reason to assume a downward trend. The borough still has very high house building targets.

Melfish · 02/03/2019 17:48

We also didn’t get Grey Court and we live in Teddington- based on last year’s distance we’d have been fine. We’re about half a km out now. Don’t think we’ll have much of a chance for a place.

SailAway123 · 02/03/2019 20:23

Kingston had an 8% rise in applications, Hounslow had a 10.5% increase. No info from Richmond yet but I guess it will be somewhere in-between. The bulge is really starting to hit!