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Richmond Borough Schools Chat 9

580 replies

ChrisSquire2 · 26/09/2016 11:07

This thread follows on from Richmond Borough Schools Chat 8 starting February 2016.
News and opinions on all the changes to schools in Richmond borough.

See also:

Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7 starting May 2015

Links to earlier threads (1-6), starting in February 2011

OP posts:
muminL · 09/11/2018 18:39

Truly labrynthine then - never heard of Kwok, had noted the Petrosaudi connection, and read that Marjan Nawa (Hong Kong registered Plato One/Two owner?) has ‘exited to GEMS Education’. Which recently became 3% owned by a Malaysian development fund and is otherwise registered in tax havens. But they give out teacher prizes so very little negative publicity at the moment.

europaeus · 22/11/2018 15:42

FYI - offers from the wait list by 1 September 2018, for all Richmond state secondaries, found it on the FOI website.

,Furthest distance offered at… ,
School,National Offer Day 1 Mar 2018,By 1 Sep 2018
Christ’s School, Open places 1.380 km,2.726km
Grey Court School, 3.146 km,3.327 km
Hampton High School,Not oversubscribed,All preferences met
Orleans Park School, 1.530 km,2.562km
Richmond Park Academy, 2.981 km,3.206km
St Richard Reynolds, Randomly allocated within criterion 2,Randomly allocated within criterion 2
Teddington School, 2.660 km,All preferences met
Richmond Upon Thames School, 3.590 km,All preferences met
Turing House School," 20% 6(a) 1.308 km, 80% 6(b) 2.457 km","20% 11.648 km, 80% 6.544km"
Twickenham Academy,Not oversubscribed,All preferences met
Waldegrave School,"Area A 1.533 km, Area B 5.028 km","Area A 1.769km, Area B 6.128km"

AbsintheAndChips · 23/11/2018 22:47

That is fascinating! RPA's last allocated distance smaller than Grey Court!

pigdeldyhigdeldy · 24/11/2018 07:28

Could that be partly because Grey Court is by the river? It's catchment must be more like a semi circle than a circle.
The Waldegrave one reminded me there's a map that comes up if you google - www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1yAHk1HEQtqt4qyqTnpPUkYOa3qA&ll=51.448441801288766%2C-0.3040160000000469&z=12. It shows where area B actually reached on distance in 2017. I wonder if anyone in Isleworth realises they're in catchment though.

pigdeldyhigdeldy · 24/11/2018 07:34

Correction - the Sept 1st boundary on the map is for 2016 not 2017, but still interesting, and a shorter distance than 2018.

littlemisslucky2 · 24/11/2018 09:39

I don’t understand why Waldegrave are still allowed to have area A & B. We are frustratingly just outside area A and yet could easily walk to Waldegrave unlike girls who get in from Richmond/Barnes/Sheen. It should be measured on distance alone.

pigdeldyhigdeldy · 24/11/2018 10:16

There was a judgement about all that recently linked from this thread. I think its to do with places being needed on the other side of the river generally and also so they have access to a girls school over there, but mostly its just a legacy thing www.gov.uk/government/publications/waldegrave-school

Emilyontmoor · 25/11/2018 13:11

The parents who have been without offers on offer day were in Barnes, Mortlake and Kew so the furthest from the Greycourt catchment and more likely to be sucked up by a RPA offer.

A significant number of pupils do cross the river both to Greycourt and Teddington particularly but also Orleans. The old allocations maps show quite a few offers made but no idea how that worked out in September. However you see pupils crossing the Teddington footbridge. At the height of the place shortage on the Middlesex side pupils in Central Twickenham were being offered places at the new Kingston school on the basis it was the shortage distance measured over the footbridge.

There was quite a fight in the past to get the B catchment set up so that pupils from the other end of the borough could access girls’ school places but at that time the pressure on places was not so great and it genuinely opened up the opportunity for pupils in Barnes, Kew etc at the expense of Richmond without limiting school choice too much for those nearer the school. Now the B area doesn’t stretch to the areas that are black holes of provision so that argument doesn’t really hold water. My impression was that the school adjudicator who ruled it legal did not fully grasp the geography.

Interesting to see that Christ’s open places stretched quite a distance, the faith places presumably even more. Further undermines the argument that Mortlake needs a —creationist— faith school

AbsintheAndChips · 26/11/2018 22:01

Yes, we are near Kew and there were several parents at school without offers last year. However a lot ended up at Christ's rather than RPA.

Emilyontmoor · 27/11/2018 20:44

Absinthe I understand making the choice between RPA and Christs', a mainstream christian school, but do you think there is any appetite for a faith Christian evangelical school in Mortlake, as opposed to the sponsor with a proven track record that the DofE, I agree have unfortunately parachuted in. The ThomasCromwell School proposal is disingenuous in its agenda and seems to me like out of the fat into the frying pan.

AbsintheAndChips · 27/11/2018 20:59

Oh, definitely not! I absolutely agree with you and think it's a terrible idea. The mention of Christ's in relation to RPA was just about the distance figures which I find fascinating.

Emilyontmoor · 28/11/2018 06:45

Out of the frying pan into the fire!

HappyDads · 04/12/2018 18:32

I am interested only as a resident since my daughter is now way too old ... on the positive side at least that there is a local team since the council don't (?) appear to have even opened it up for other parties which I am pretty sure they should have.

I had a quick look and in the interests of balance on this discussion I do notice that there are two local CoE Vicars in the team supporting this ... is that new? www.cromwellschool.org.uk/team/

David Cooke from Holy Trinity Barnes, plus Dan Wells who I think is now the new vicar at Holy Trinity Richmond? I rather doubt either of them are Young Earth Creationists and while I don't know the church in Barnes, I do know they have female preachers in HTR so I similarly doubt women there are asked to "submit" Hmm in biblical or indeed any other terms.

Duke Street not sure ... just had a quick look at the statement of faith. www.dukestreetchurch.com/what-we-believe/ ... however I don't see any women preachers there in the Sermon list so you can draw your own conclusions! Wink

Anyway, I also DO think it's right to ask these questions, while it's certainly a faith group there's certainly a bit more balance than mentioned.

Sorry for not knowing how Free Schools work but even it were a faith school, don't DoE standards still have to be followed? Knowing Richmond residents, anything dodgy on what's being taught and 300+ parents with be calling it out pretty fast.

muminL · 04/12/2018 19:34

What’s the point in a religious school when there’s no demand to go there? Even for the most cynical, there is no evidence in this borough that such schools do better academically or otherwise, and there’s a already a CofE school nearby for those who really do believe.

DancingbytheRiver · 04/12/2018 21:08

@Happydads

Re your comment: don't DoE standards still have to be followed? Knowing Richmond residents, anything dodgy on what's being taught and 300+ parents with be calling it out pretty fast.

Just look at the current active thread about the Steiner School in Exeter to see how bad it can get, with 400 children affected and despite the school originally aiming to "follow DoE standards" when it was set up.

We are, by no measure, where the school in Exeter is. However NOW is the time to ask what the plans are about and who is behind and what are their real interests. And that goes for both projects, the original project (which was parachuted from elsewhere in London and no one in the borough really knows the background) as well as the latest proposal by local residents, which still have to 1) prove that they can deliver a working option, 2) clarify their ethos so people do not think there are some covert intentions, 3) demonstrate that they will be serving the needs of a sizeable portion of the Richmond borough and not just only addressing a small minority with very particular beliefs.

DancingbytheRiver · 04/12/2018 21:09

Sorry - We are not, by any measure, where the school in Exeter is.

DancingbytheRiver · 04/12/2018 21:20

And by the way, I just checked the Cromwell school website. Very professional and organised. What the website does not say is who is funding the marketing effort at the moment, does anyone know? Is St Paul's School close to this project? As Stuart Block, Director of Partnerships is in the committee, and his mini CV is all about the school and not him.
Nothing too bad with all of this, but at a minimum, they are clearly failing in how the communicate their mission.

HappyDads · 04/12/2018 22:13

I agree, it doesn't matter if religious or not from an educational perspective.

Seriously what I can see is that the Cromwell School proposal has value even if the only thing it does is force us all as a local community to get more involved/engaged - that can never be a bad thing.

Agree @DancingbytheRiver - both bids need to be drilled down equally on a level playing field, based upon what they are proposing ... ethos, team, educational emphasis, local needs, supplier experience, admissions process and so on.

Is this an open process, how is it done and who does it?

DancingbytheRiver · 04/12/2018 22:27

Good question HappyDads! i think both camps are trying to take advantage of the "no clear rules" situation. If any of this goes wrong, it is first the DoE and the Borough's responsibility to set the boundaries and process....

HappyDads · 04/12/2018 22:34

Side-track but Richard Buggs' sideline on the genetics of Adam and Eve is fascinatingly weird, especially as he is obviously a very smart guy in his field regardless of his faith.

richardbuggs.com/index.php/2018/04/18/adam-and-eve-lessons-learned/

Just reading and I am totally speculating here, but it occurs to me that the only reason I can think of that he'd put this kind of effort into the "Adam and Eve" genetics/gene-pool work is to provide an incredibly slender and scientific-sounding life-line to provide plausibility that the genetic pool of mankind could theoretically have come from two people.

I think conservative christians are a bit desperate to hold onto the "one man-one woman" position at Creation vs. Theory of Evolution is that they then align that with one man-one woman marriage (or to be fair rather I think Jesus clearly does in the NT). So the game work here is probably aimed at helping to stop single-sex marriage in churches downstream.

If it wasn't Adam and Eve at creation after all them maybe Adam can marry Steve these days after all? Smile

Sorry for the digression!

DancingbytheRiver · 04/12/2018 22:46

That Richard Bugs post also sounds a lot like "me, me and me" and a desperate attempt to find what I call a scientific niche. It is tough out there for researchers and academics, competition is brutal and so hard to stand out. Sometimes the only ideas left to research are the bizarre and pointless (however bold). I would be surprised the CoE agreed with all of this? as CoE (as I understand it and been taught) is NOT about a literal interpretation of the stories in the bible? Frankly I find the whole discourse a monumental waste of time.

DancingbytheRiver · 04/12/2018 22:47

*Richard Buggs

Emilyontmoor · 05/12/2018 13:47

HappyDad It was the DofE who made the decision to parachute in the sponsoring academies trust, the Aspirations Academy Trust that has been announced by the Council for the Livingstone School on the Stag Brewery site. That was clear in the Councils original announcement and it was the wording of the petition that Richard Buggs launched and has used in support of the school proposal that first made me suspicious of his agenda.

It is fairly widely known (especially if you read this thread and /or knew anything about the background to the existing free schools in the borough), and certainly easy to find out, that local Councils have lost control over any of the decision making in the Free School process and can only carry out due diligence in terms of advising the DofE of suitability to the local context (and it would be hard for the Council to argue against a sponsor of 14 schools, some outstanding and some local, though whether Richmond parents would perceive Hounslow as local is of course another matter Grin). Mr Buggs is clearly not without research skills so it was at the very least disingenuous to launch a petition, subsequently used as evidence of support for a school proposal that did not actually originate in the needs of the local community, targeting the local council to provoke local support.

I completely agree that schools should be rooted in the needs of the local community, that is why a free school (Turing) was born on this thread when the Council parachuted in an exclusive Faith School to Twickenham when there was a need for inclusive places in the community. However the proposal that Mr Bugs has initiated has not emerged from the needs of the local community, there is a Faith School 1.6 miles away that is not oversubscribed for faith places and another in Twickenham that serves the local parishes for the Catholic community. The need in Mortlake, Barnes and Kew is for a school that follows the model of the other popular oversubscribed community schools like Greycourt that have always been (with one hiccup) where local parents wanted to send their children. Many parents and governors who signed the petition which did the rounds of all the primary schools, and governing bodies, now feel they were misled and have fed back their withdrawal of support and views on the true background to the proposal.

I have included lots of links further up thread but the three most active proposers Mr Buggs, the Headmaster of Fulham Boys School and the leader of the Duke Street Church are prominent and influential Christian Evangelicals with International connections to America and there is no shortage of evidence that they believe in and proselytise an agenda that is creationist, misogynist, homophobic and anti abortion. There are plenty of sermons you can listen to online from both the Duke Street Church, where Mr Buggs is a member, and delivered by the Headmaster of Fulham Boys' School at Independent Evangelical churches around the area. Mr Buggs' "scientific evidence" is used internationally as proof of creationism and that Adam and Eve are the only model and Fulham Boys' School recently hosted for a week from America, the International Outreach Director of an Evangelical organisation called the the Council for Manhood and Womanhood. I agree that most Richmond parents would be up in arms about such fundamentalism in a local school but it is happening in Fulham it seems without parental outcry? By all accounts it is an oversubscribed popular school and I can only assume Mr Ebenezer's (the Head) sailing close to the wind in terms of not promoting British values on equality etc. is tolerated by parents and politicians because they appreciate the rest of what the school delivers, or they just don't realise what is going on.

The Church of England is I gather suffering from a touch of multiple personality disorder in relation to the Evangelicals, on the one hand they are the branch of christianity that are growing their congregations, and they want some of that, on the other they are an anathema to those who support both liberal and traditional values. In that context it strikes me as revealing that having approached all the CofE parishes in the area only two signed up....

It seems to me that the Christian Evangelicals are being very strategic in proselytising (which duty is after all at the core of their beliefs) their agenda. Why do Mr Buggs et al not come out and declare their beliefs and wish to spread them, instead of employing other tactics to gain support for their school? It all seems very underhand.

Emilyontmoor · 05/12/2018 14:44

Dancing To be fair to Mr Buggs he does seem to occupy a peer supported academic "niche" with his work at Kew on conserving tree species. I do know Scientists who somehow manage to reconcile their beliefs with Science by a sort of dual value set, belief after all can, necessarily I would say, be divorced from reality / the need for scientific proof . And his "scientific evidence" is basically just establishing that it is a very remote possibility in the face the theory of evolution which is regarded as as fully evidenced as it is possible for any scientific theory to be proven, and therefore to all intents and purpose accepted as proven by teh scientific community.

Emilyontmoor · 05/12/2018 14:46

*so remote a possibility as to be effectively impossible