This is the Bread Thread!

[LocalEdLeicsshire]

Rightho, I'm making bread. Specifically, I'm making the Mumsnet Loaf!This is something I've just invented - or rather, am on the very cusp of inventing. I'm hoping to be able to make my own bread every day, baking it to fit around my daily schedule. I've been taking advice from the man behind this great blog No Bread Is An Island. Here's the stuff. Here's the plan:

The Mumsnet Loaf recipe

Ingredients
500g strong flour
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 teaspoon dried active yeast (2gms or less)
350ml lukewarm water
2 tbsp olive oil

Method
Step 1: Get the kids to bed. Dissolve the yeast in the water. Mix the flour and salt in the food storer, then add the yeast liquid and olive oil.
Leave overnight in the kitchen.

Step 2: To be performed by my as-yet-unwitting husband. In the morning, (when, my love, you usually amble round the house just eating bananas and wishing someone else was up), shape the mixture into a loaf (adding more flour if it’s too wet) and place in an oiled loaf tin. Put the tin in an oiled plastic bag in the fridge.

Step 3: Get home from work/school, and bake the loaf at 220C for about 25-30 minutes.

We're not 100% sure it will work, me and the breadman, but if it did, it would be a great, no-hassle loaf. To make things a little harder, I'm going to try it with 100% wholemeal flour, which doesn't seem to be a popular bread-maker's choice.

What do you think? Have I just revolutionised bread-making? Will I put Greggs out of business? Or is this destined to be a sorry, sticky failure?

LEL you should post an updated version of the recipe with your changes in

I did send you a link, did you get it?

Hello again. Quick replies: I'll post a new definitive recipe when I'm next doing my local ed stuff (Thurs, I think), and will join the Midlands fb page then as well. Will also find out the dimensions of my loaf tin!

Thanks for that link, HW.

Once again, people try and complicate what is the simplest, easiest thing you can make in a kitchen. By all means try different variations on a theme, but get the basics in hand first!

Couple of points - olive oil does not make for a harder crust, quite the reverse. Ryan and Allen put olive oil in their bread, which I think is supposed to give it a harder crust and a crumblier interior, but it doesn't make much difference.

A soda bread done in the style of a focaccia - olive oil in the dough, pressed out flat, holes poked in the top and filled with olive oil - is a wonderful, soft loaf.

I'd certainly support putting dried fruit, spice and a bit of sugar in to make a fruit loaf, very tasty.

And I'd also recommend the use of wholemeal flours and oats, with baking powder - 100g flour to 1 tsp baking powder.

You never need to make the same loaf twice!

Well the GF flour didn't work well as a soda bread.

I think the lack of gluten makes it dense and it doesn't really rise or taste 'bready'. The chemistry isn't right. I think I might need to foam some egg white and mix in with the water to give it some structure.

I made a couple of GF baps yesterday one using Doves GF s/r flour, and the other with Wessex GF bread flour, to which I added 1 teaspoon baking powder.

The one on the left, the Doves, wasn't great, but the Wessex one was perfectly edible. I've put both in the freezer with a view to taking them along for a GF friend to try out on Friday.

I couldn't resist joining the comments thread on that Guardian article, so I've added my pennyworth!

The other loaf is one I made for my coffee morning yesterday - it comprised of a fruit dough, rolled out and layered up with tinned sliced peaches, prunes and dates (previously soaked in water for a while) and topped with rows of grapes and glacé cherries. It went down a bomb!

Breadandwine: my loaf tin is (inches) 9 x 5 and 3 down. I used a larger tin to start with, but have gone back to the smaller tin.

I'm enjoying my bread book. I have found a recipe by the disgraced Stuart Hall for 'aphrodisiac milk bread'.....

My friend has just had a new baby, so I'm thinking of making a nice white loaf to take round for them....but not Mr Hall's, I think. Can I use this recipe below, all with white flour?

Here's the new definitive recipe I'm using. I've realised, since doing all this, that there isn't really any definitive recipe. It does need a lot of trying out and experimenting. I'm doing some more tonight, and am going to try more yeast, also a hotter oven, and probably a little more white flour. I'm also going to try kneading in the evening, just to see what happens.

The Mumsnet Loaf recipe

Ingredients
500g strong flour (mixture of white and wholemeal)
1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp dried active yeast
400ml lukewarm water
2 tbsp olive oil

Method
Step 1: Get the kids to bed. Dissolve the yeast in 150ml water. Mix the flour and salt in the food storer, then add the yeast liquid, the rest of the water and the olive oil.
Leave overnight in the kitchen.

Step 2: Knead it for 5 mins. Shape the mixture into a loaf (adding more flour if it’s too wet) and place in an oiled loaf tin. Push it down hard round the edges, so that it makes a nice loaf shape. Leave in a warm place.

Step 3: Get home from work/school, and bake the loaf at 220C for about 25-30 minutes.

I'm going to try it all out for a bit longer, and then I might put this in the Mumsnet recipe section!

Ha ha! Big fail with the white bread. It pretty much exploded in the airing cupboard while I was at work! I've knocked it back again and will see what happens next.

Did you go out to work and leave a bowl of live yeast and dough in the airing cupboard ALL day?

That would be about .... erm.... 7 hours too long then.

Did you rescue it? Did it make a loaf in the end?

Yes, MoreBeta, that is what I did (but no-one was around to stop me by giving me advice - where have you all gone?!). The wholemeal loaf doesn't explode when I do that. But the white one did. Anyway, I made a loaf out of it and delivered it to my friend who's just had a baby. I'll probably never find out how it tasted, because she'll be far too tired to even remember.

Out of interest, what should I have done with it, assuming I needed to leave it all day? Put it in the fridge? Like I say, the wholemeal is fine for 7 hours in the airing cupboard.

The warmer it is the quicker it rises.

Problem is with the fridge although it will rise much more slowly your dough will be very cold and it will need to warm up quite lot before you can put it in the oven otherwise it wont cook properly.

Tricky problem.

I usually make bread at night with an old breadmaker to mix, knead and raise the dough after I come home. I then knock back and shape by hand, prove and bake it just before I go to bed - that way it is fresh for morning and as close to the traditional bakery fresh bread which is off course always baked at night. Fresh brioche is great for breakfast and using a breadmaker to make and mix the dough is a heck of a lot easier than making the brioche dough by hand. Honestly it really would take you all night.

I can do a loaf from scratch in 3 hours and I do freeze some as well just in case. I cut the loaf in half before freezing so I can take just enough out. If you deep freeze after baking it does not lose to much texture but fresh is best obviously.

Hi LEL

I don't think I've ever left the house whilst the dough is proving - certainly not when it's been left somewhere warm.

I come back to leaving the dough on your worktop in a covered container until you can give it the time and attention it needs.

As I said in a previous post, it takes under a couple of hours for the dough to prove (in the oven with a dish of hot water) and then bake.

Your dream of coming home and putting your bread straight into the oven could be realised - but it would take a deal of experimenting with the amount of yeast, etc, to come up with the right formula.

MB says he can make a loaf in 3 hours, and he's right - assuming 2 risings. If you only gave it one rising, you could have it done in an hour and a half - by using more yeast. But the whole point of leaving it overnight is to inculcate more flavour into your bread.

Ah, but I want to leave the house when my dough is proving! But I take your point! The wholemeal has so far been fine in the airing cupboard (it's the warmest place in the house, but to be honest, that's not saying much). I seem to have missed the point previously about taking it out the fridge and then letting it warm up a bit. I was indeed trying to bake it straight out the fridge. I think some more experimenting is called for in general.
Today's loaf, though: 9cm!

LocalEd - I had a feeling this might be your problem but I wasn't sure if you we taking the dough out for a while before cooking or not.

The prove and final cooking stage need the CO2 bubbles to expand rapidly and that will be severely inhibited by cold dough. Hot gas expanding explosively before the protein denatures and the crust forms in the heat of the oven is what you need.

Like a hot air balloon.

Hi everyone!

Anything to report?

I have to thank you LEL for starting this thread! I hadn't made a tinned loaf for many years until I had a go at this one - and I'm very pleased with the loaves I've made.

So much so that this is the bread I shall make for the foreseeable future!

I divide the loaves in two - freeze one and keep the other in the breadbin. I'm only having 2/3 slices a day and I'm really surprised how well this loaf keeps. When I was just taking a chunk out of the freezer whenever I needed it, I didn't notice what the keeping qualities were.

How's it going with you?

Did intend to run a breadmaking session with Wellington Children's Centre tomorrow morning, but the forecast is diabolical, so I've called it off until after half-term!

LEL, I've just been looking on the Shipton Mill site - and I don't think they do an organic strong wholemeal flour.

I use Dove's organic wholemeal bread flour, which I thoroughly recommend - both for the rise it gives me and the wonderful flavour it has.

When my DIL had our first grandchild, she didn't want me to put any salt in our bread. After a couple of loaves we got used to the taste and then to really appreciate it. So it's good stuff!

I'm planning to post an update very soon - I've been making the 'Grant loaf', which has been a big success. I'm going to try making bread the 'normal' way for a week or so, and see how the flavour/texture/etc compares to the Mumsnet loaf.

Glad to have inspired anyone at all....

You're right that the Shipton Mill flour is not described on the website as being 'strong'. But it was on the package. I've been enjoying Whissendine Mill flour this week though, and have Marriages (which is basically Doves Farm, isn't it) to try this week.

Interesting!

Marriages is indeed part of Doves Farm.

Look forward to your update. I've just started another bread tonight - it's presently undergoing 'Autolyse', which is basically mixing flour and water and leaving it for half an hour.

It's supposed to improve the flavour, but I'm not convinced. But it can do no harm!

Later I'll add the rest of the ingredients and leave it in the food storer until tomorrow afternoon.

Might toast some sesame seeds to include. Say 50g.

I've just made your normal loaf A - following timings exactly. No fermented smell, nicely risen - but as you rightly say, not as much flavour as the longer proving period. Made a lovely fried egg sandwich, though.
Then I'm going to try your loaf B, and then some other loaves suggested by people on here and in the Bread Book (which I am loving....may have to look for my own copy).

Excellent, LEL

I made another tinned loaf today, using method C. I'm really relishing having normal slices - and (it may be imagination) it seems to taste better.

Haven't tasted this one - but I included 40g of toasted sesame seeds. I need to divide it in two and freeze it. Don't you just hate it when you make a fresh loaf and you've still got the heel of the last one to use up!

Seems you can get the ST Bread book for anything up to £20. Even that's a bargain!

Meant to mention before - the book is very much a product of the then current emphasis on healthy food - so most of the recipes use wholemeal flour (including the one for croissants! ). And they never use sugar - always honey.

So these aren't the original recipes in many cases - they've been tweaked for the book. So if you want to use all white instead of wholemeal, that would be fine (especially in the case of the croissants!) - or sugar instead of honey. (Actually, you can leave any sweetener out of a plain bread - such as the breadstick recipe, or any plain loaf - you just don't need it!

Being a vegan, I've made many of the breads without any butter/eggs/milk, and they all turn out fine.

But the ideas are pretty sound - and the book is a good read, as well!

My student made a white tinned loaf in my session on Wednesday - 3 small beakers (about 150g) of flour to one of water - along with some croissants, pain au chocolat and Danish pastries.

I made another tinned loaf for my daughter yesterday, with Malthouse flour, along with toasted sunflower and sesame seeds. Using the longer, lower tin it measured 11cms.

How's everyone else's breadmaking going?

I have been lurking on this thread and can finally add my loaf! I was quite excited to try a few ago, but all my yeast was expired. I even tested it, but it was really dead.
I bought some more dried yeast, but having had poor results in the past (why it all expired unused) with dried yeast, I decided to try fresh. I was reading up on it and fresh yeast seemed more likely to give a good rise on the second proving, which was often my problem before.

My recipe was
500g strong white flour
2/3tsp salt
10g fresh yeast
250ml water, 100ml semi-skimmed milk
2tbsp olive oil

I then followed the rest of the instructions. It seemed stickier than the pictures BreadAndWine posted of it first mixed up, but that's hard to judge from a photo. I used my hands to get it well combined as no spoon or knife seemed to work well. There was a bit of flour left in the bowl, but I decided to leave it to use in the morning for the mild kneading and shaping.

It looked good in the morning and rose well after I put it in the tin. I baked it for about 25 minutes at 190 in a fan oven (which runs a bit hot) and then another 3 minutes upside down, out of the tin.

The result was great! Great rise, nice height and no wet spongeyness in the centre. Tastes great too, of course! Thanks for all the posts about it, I will definitely do it again!

Hello everyone. Glad we are all still going! I've just checked in today to print off the recipes everyone else has suggested. I'm working my way through all of these - and then I'm going to pick a daily loaf and stick to it! Next week, to the horror of my husband, I am going to make a 'natural leaven', by attracting some wild yeasts! Has anyone ever tried this?

I made potato bread at the weekend. It was a sorry failure!

I will definitely do it again! Brilliant, AndiMac, you're off and running, now!

Nice looking loaf you've got there!

The pic is another loaf from Dove's Malthouse flour (plus seeds as before) for my daughter - didn't measure it, but it came up well.

(If using this flour, use a little less water - I used 325g instead of 350g)

Made a bit of a cock-up with my latest loaf!

On Friday night, I intended to make my usual overnight, no-knead loaf, which is:
400g wholemeal
100g white
350g water
5g salt
50g EVOO
Plus I had 50g of toasted sesame and sunflower seeds to add.

However, when assembling the dry ingredients, I needed to use up a bag of stoneground wholemeal - not bread flour - I'd been given, so I measured the 400g of wholemeal and added 100g of the stoneground flour - completely forgetting that I should include some white.

When I saw how much it had risen when I came downstairs on Saturday morning, I was surprised - it was only about 2/3rds of the way up the side of the food storer, when it would normally almost fill it.

I shaped the loaf as usual, Saturday evening, and waited for it to rise - which it did, but only by about a centimetre above the level of the tin. I gave it more time, hoping it would rise more, but eventually, I put it in the oven. The resultant loaf was heavy and dense and I couldn't work it out.

Eventually, after running over what I'd done in my mind, I realised my error - what a prat!

The loaf only measure 8.5cms in height. It's nutty and flavoursome, but not up to my usual standard.