This is the Bread Thread!

[LocalEdLeicsshire]

Rightho, I'm making bread. Specifically, I'm making the Mumsnet Loaf!This is something I've just invented - or rather, am on the very cusp of inventing. I'm hoping to be able to make my own bread every day, baking it to fit around my daily schedule. I've been taking advice from the man behind this great blog No Bread Is An Island. Here's the stuff. Here's the plan:

The Mumsnet Loaf recipe

Ingredients
500g strong flour
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 teaspoon dried active yeast (2gms or less)
350ml lukewarm water
2 tbsp olive oil

Method
Step 1: Get the kids to bed. Dissolve the yeast in the water. Mix the flour and salt in the food storer, then add the yeast liquid and olive oil.
Leave overnight in the kitchen.

Step 2: To be performed by my as-yet-unwitting husband. In the morning, (when, my love, you usually amble round the house just eating bananas and wishing someone else was up), shape the mixture into a loaf (adding more flour if it’s too wet) and place in an oiled loaf tin. Put the tin in an oiled plastic bag in the fridge.

Step 3: Get home from work/school, and bake the loaf at 220C for about 25-30 minutes.

We're not 100% sure it will work, me and the breadman, but if it did, it would be a great, no-hassle loaf. To make things a little harder, I'm going to try it with 100% wholemeal flour, which doesn't seem to be a popular bread-maker's choice.

What do you think? Have I just revolutionised bread-making? Will I put Greggs out of business? Or is this destined to be a sorry, sticky failure?

B&W - interesting what you say about strong flour.

I found that using strong flour made the dough very stiff indeed. I think the issue is not so much the flour but if you take a standard bread recipe and use exactly the same recipe (i.e. same weights and volumes) but put in different types of flour you get different outcomes.

I think the particular standard recipe I was using didn't have enough water in it for the type of strong flour I was using. As I said up the thread one of the things I have learned is that bread making isn't just about weighing stuff out and mixing it up. There is an art, a sort of feel and skill that's hard to describe in a recipe.

Loaf no. 4: 7cm!

So there we go....most of the problem turns out to have been using the wrong type of yeast! This loaf was only ever-so-slightly undercooked in the centre and only a tiny bit beery smelling. I am going to fiddle with the timings slightly to see if cooking it a little sooner will prevent it over-fermenting at all.

I also wonder if the oven is not quite hot enough? The bread does not rise any further when it goes in - should it? Today I cooked scones just after the bread, so the oven was very hot when they went in, and they rose like never before.

When I'm not bringing Mumsnet to Leicestershire, I work in an organic and specialist mail order shop - Naturally Good Food. For those of you looking for gluten-free stuff, especially for baking, we have loads....

The owner of the business has just lent me her lovely 1980s(?) book, the Book of Real Bread. It is just the thing to read in an armchair on at wet and stormy Leicestershire evening....(it's in my Mumsnet contract that I must shoehorn references to Leicestershire into everything, you know).

Anyway, we've eaten the whole loaf for tea, as posh Leicestershire rarebit (done it again).

Scarlet I'm not the best person to advise about German bread - rye bread is an acquired taste I've yet to acquire!

But The Fresh Loaf will be able to help, I'm sure - just put 'German bread' in the search box.

You'll love this site as well, MB!

What makes a dough stiff (tight) dough is a lack of water in the mix. Took me years to realise that! I thought the more water in the mix the heavier the bread would be. Until, that is, I made a ciabatta - which requires 25% more water than a regular bread, and rose better than any other loaf I'd ever made!

The wetter the dough (the slacker) the easier it is for the CO2 produced by the action of the yeast to form large holes in the bread.

Well done, LEL! Getting there!

Is that the Sunday Times Book of Real Bread, by any chance? That book has had an honoured place in my kitchen and has inspired me for over 20 years! It's a wonderful read!

That looks lovely EdLeics. And 7cm - you r DH must be very proud!

Your thread has inspired me. I've just made some rolls and loaves. And started a sour dough off.

Can I just check on the current mn loaf format you are using please?

Is it make up dough, leave for 1st rise in kitchen overnight.
AM - knock back, knead and prove in kitchen during day. PM cook?

Is that right?

(PS I put 2 tsp yeast per 500g flour for my bread)

Yes, it's the Sunday Times book. I'm looking forward to the contribution by Barbara Cartland that I see comes later on!

So, I'm going to experiment a little now with timings, more yeast and a hotter oven.

But, Wirralwoman, here is the current MN Loaf format I am using:

Mix the dough up at about 8pm. I am using 400g wholemeal and 100g white flour. I am using half tsp yeast, but as I say, I think this needs to be increased. I find I am using 500ml of water in total as well, but that might be because the wholemeal flour is incredibly wholesome, right-on and worthy, so needs more?

I leave the dough in the food storer in the kitchen overnight.

I have removed my husband from the equation. Unless he can better 7cm?!

In the morning (8am), I quickly give the dough a bit of a pounding: a few kneads and folds. I stick it in an oiled tin in an oiled bag, and I leave it in the airing cupboard, because my house is very cold.

At 4pm I bake it. I think, though, that it might be better baked a little sooner. I will experiment with that too.

It is really exciting to see so many other people who love making bread. I haven't updated it for ages (slightly crazy emigrating/new job/house moving phase took over) but my blog has a few ideas about fitting bread making into RL [email protected]. Will be following this thread with interest :)

Wirralwoman it is indeed as you say.

I've just done exactly that - I mixed the dough last night, which took me about 8 minutes, and now it's taken me under five minutes to shape the dough and put it to prove (not including the time preparing the loaf tin).

I'm using a slightly lower and longer loaf tin than last time - it's a more modern shape and possibly nearer to LEL's.

I've put it to prove in the oven, with a dish of hot water (from the tap). This would hopefully - well it will - give us a shorter proving time, and a more reliable one, as you can replicate this technique accurately.

This is the loaf as I've just put it in the tin - once again with a strip of baking paper underneath. I haven't used this tin in a long while, either.

I agree with breadand wine that Andrew whitley's book is amazing god all types of bread baking. His courses are fantastic too. I went on his Italian baking course some years ago and haven't looked back.

Here's the loaf after just one hour's proving in the oven.

As you can see I lied about the dish, i decided that the jug I'd been using would suffice.

I've taken the loaf out of the oven and put it on at 220C - it'll take about 10 minutes to warm up and I won't bother covering the loaf during that time.

LEL thanks for the reminder about The Book of Real Bread! I've just wasted spent the last hour or so reminding myself what a complete joy it is!

I found a copy sometime in the mid-80's I guess - and I got given another copy by the mother of one of the students I was teaching at the Enterprise Centre in Bridgwater. At one time I had 3 sessions a week there, working with adults with learning difficulties. An absolute joy!

Unfortunately, I left that copy at the centre - they're quite expensive, even second-hand.

Just put the loaf in the oven - it had exactly 1 hour 15 minutes proving.

Thanks for tips, look forward to trying it...!

And here's the finished loaf. It's a bit lopsided, measuring 11.5cm at one end and 10cm at the other!

The whole session took about 5 minutes short of two hours.

(I've still got half of the last loaf in the freezer - I'll just have to eat more bread!)

Looks rather good. You pay extra in the shops for lopsided.

Its authentic and artisan you know. .

I've been experimenting with my own 'No Knead' bread for a few months now.... varied results! (I'm using white flour for this experiment)

I make a very small loaf every night (to leave overnight) and often one in the morning to 'enjoy watching' its progress!

Call me sad ... but going to bed after a rubbish day ... and waking up 'and wondering what my dough looks like' is one of lifes simple pleasures!

So Heres my recipe for 'SLOW-DOUGH'

Mix together
100g STRONG White Flour
1/2 teaspoon Dried Active yeast

Add 125g WARM water
and beat mixture with WOODEN SPOON to form a 'stretchy batter'
(THIS IS THE IMPORTANT STAGE ... THIS REPLACES KNEADING AND TAKES ONLY 2 OR 3 MINS AND MAKES SUCH A DIFFERENCE TO THE RISE!)

Next add another 100g STRONG white flour and 1/2 teaspoon salt.
Use one hand to mix all together untill no 'dry bits' ... then cover in a bowl and leave in fridge over night.

Take out fridge and shape into loaf and put in sinal cooking tin.
cover and leave in fridge if baking 'later' (just take out fridge an hour before baking)

When doubled in size put it in to PREHEATED OVEN on a PREHEATED BAKING TRAY for 10 mins AT HIGHEST TEMPARATURE.
Then turn oven down to 180 and leave for 20mins

Hogwash - I think my breadmaker makes decent bread but hand shaoed and baked in a good electric oven produces a better loaf.

The breadmaker just isn't a proper oven but it is great for mixing and kneading and raising if you are busy.

I just switched over to electric and yes I do think it bakes far better cakes and bread than gas.

No flaming from me, Hogwash - perfectly good question.

Which only you can answer!

You're going to have to do a side-by-side test, aren't you? Make the Mumsnet loaf and check it out against your machine-made loaf.

I have no hangups about breadmakers - they're just a mixer and an oven in one little package. It's horses for courses, isn't it, and if it's working for you, that's fine!

However (you knew there'd be a 'however', didn't you? ), IMO, nothing beats the satisfaction of making your own bread! (Unless it's teaching someone else how to make bread!)

When I'm teaching breadmaking to kids, I always finish off the session telling them I have some homework for them.

At which point their faces fall - more homework? - and then I add, "Which is to go home and find someone who can't make bread, and teach them what you've learned today!" Then their faces brighten up as they start thinking just who they can can teach - and they leave happy.

Oops! You didn't ask that! Sorry!

B&W EdLeics

Thanks for the rl/mn format. I think I'll try putting it in the fridge at night and again in the morning to be cooked in the evening when I get home from work. Actually I might try knocking back & proving a third time in the eve before cooking for flavour.

I tried cooking my bread in the oven from cold yesterday. It rose about 20% more. Good if you know it could do with a bit longer to prove but haven't got time to wait. I also don't bother with steam any more. I don't think it makes a great deal of difference.

Putting it with a jug of hot water for proving is a good tip if you know your kitchen is cold (mine often is).

I love making bread by hand now (used to have a Panasonic bm, but actually the uniformity seems a bit erm uniform to me now). I also usually do 1.5kg-2kg of dough at a time and make a mixture of bread for daily use and rolls for the freezer and get them out in the week for lunches to take to school/work.

Thanks for that recipe, MrsF!

I'm the last person to call you sad! One tip you might find useful - ditch the wooden spoon and stir with a palette knife, or even a table knife. I've only ever used a wooden spoon once with a bread dough and that was enough for me! You can't get the dough off the darn thing! With a knife, you just have to wipe it on the side of the bowl!

WW That's a good tip if you're short of time - I've often put my bread in a cold oven. As the oven warms up it gives the bread a sort of super-prove!

Sounds like you've both got this breadmaking lark sorted out!

Ahhh B&W, now I understand! I thought it was meant to be a lot flatter so I really thinned it down! So, shall I try making something in my toaster oven then? Would you recommend the lowest heat (250w which I use for cakes, sometimes up to 2 hours if it's nigella's chocolate cake!), or can bread get away with it being slightly warmer (500w, which I use for chicken/fish for about 20-25 mins)?

I'd have a go with the 500W setting, BY.

Why not do a simple experiment? Side by side soda breads, one done in your oven, one done in the frying pan, and see what the advantages of each are?

So, make a dough using 4 times the amount you made before. Divide the dough into 2 pieces - one you bake in the oven, the other you divide into two again and make 2 of the baps in your frying pan. It's the same work as doing one, really.

So, switch your oven on to 500W before you begin, and prepare a baking sheet - one lined with baking paper, or oiled - and put your frying pan on a low heat, then:
Measure:
400g or 2 mugs s/raising flour
1/2 teaspoon salt (or a little more if that's to your taste. Or leave it out if you prefer)
250ml or 2/3rds mug cold water
2 tablespoons olive oil - or a good glug to save ending up with an oily spoon (optional - but it does make for a softer crust)

Mix with a table knife, or your hands, into a soft and squishy dough - never be afraid to add a little more water to make sure it is soft. Knead it (flatten and fold it) four or five times, then divide it in two.

1. Working quickly, form one of the pieces into a cob shape (cob - the Old English word for head! ), place it on the prepared baking sheet and press a deep cross into it with the back of a knife (this is to allow the heat to get at the middle - soda bread is a little denser than yeast-risen bread), then put it straight into the oven. Make a note of the time.
2. Divide the other piece of dough in two, make two smaller cobs and flatten them down into discs about 1.5cm high. Place them in your frying pan and turn the heat up to medium. Put a lid on the pan - if you have no lid, use a spare baking sheet or similar. You're trying to create a 'mini-oven', if you like. Put the timer on for 5 minutes.

Check the bread in the oven - you may need to turn it round 90 or 180 degrees to ensure an even bake.

Check the bread in the frying pan after a couple of minutes - you may need to adjust the heat up or down. After 5 minutes turn the baps over to cook the underneath.

Have another look at your bread in the oven - it never hurts bread to open the oven door.

The bread is done if a skewer inserted into the thickest part comes out clean. Or, if you gently break it apart, it should break cleanly, with no strings of dough across the middle.

That should be about it, I think. That's taken you about 20 or so minutes. (It's quicker to make a soda bread than it is to write about it! ).

At 65p for a bag of s/raising flour, it's cost you less than 20p - a bit more if you used olive oil.

And you've had 20 minutes of pure fun and excitement! What more could you ask for?

All that remains for you to do now is to choose what to have with your bread!

Decisions, decisions!

B&W - that recipe has given me an idea.

I sometimes am not organised enough to set aside 3 hours to get a bread loaf done in time for the kids tea but a soda bread in a frying pan in 20 minutes sounds like a bit of standby life saver recipe and I'm sure they would like the novelty of it.

Hi Hogwash

Here it is:

nobreadisanisland.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/home-made-red-table-wine.html

But, TBH, the nickname comes from the quotation "A jug of wine, a loaf of bread and thou…"

Omar Khayyam

Good luck with the soda bread - tho' you won't need it!