Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Local

Find conversations happening in your area in our local chat rooms.

This is the Bread Thread!

126 replies

LocalEdLeicsshire · 23/01/2014 13:58

Rightho, I'm making bread. Specifically, I'm making the Mumsnet Loaf!This is something I've just invented - or rather, am on the very cusp of inventing. I'm hoping to be able to make my own bread every day, baking it to fit around my daily schedule. I've been taking advice from the man behind this great blog No Bread Is An Island. Here's the stuff. Here's the plan:

The Mumsnet Loaf recipe

Ingredients
500g strong flour
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 teaspoon dried active yeast (2gms or less)
350ml lukewarm water
2 tbsp olive oil

Method
Step 1: Get the kids to bed. Dissolve the yeast in the water. Mix the flour and salt in the food storer, then add the yeast liquid and olive oil.
Leave overnight in the kitchen.

Step 2: To be performed by my as-yet-unwitting husband. In the morning, (when, my love, you usually amble round the house just eating bananas and wishing someone else was up), shape the mixture into a loaf (adding more flour if it’s too wet) and place in an oiled loaf tin. Put the tin in an oiled plastic bag in the fridge.

Step 3: Get home from work/school, and bake the loaf at 220C for about 25-30 minutes.

We're not 100% sure it will work, me and the breadman, but if it did, it would be a great, no-hassle loaf. To make things a little harder, I'm going to try it with 100% wholemeal flour, which doesn't seem to be a popular bread-maker's choice.

What do you think? Have I just revolutionised bread-making? Will I put Greggs out of business? Or is this destined to be a sorry, sticky failure?

This is the Bread Thread!
OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
florists · 28/01/2014 22:54

If it's a bit beery, I guess the yeast has fermeted a bit too long, maybe proving overnight has made it a bit too active!

blueyama · 28/01/2014 23:41

Watching with interest!

We live abroad and don't have a traditional oven.

We do have a horizontal toaster oven, which is great for making pies, cakes, biscuits, pizza etc. The heat options are

250W - very low and how I cook my cakes and pies (for a loooong time) so they don't burn on the outside
500W - good for cooking chicken or fish in foil envelopes
750W - never really used?!
1000W - good for toast and pizzas.

Does anyone think I might be able to try some bread in this?!

(Of course the other answer is to buy a breadmaker, but ah well!)

Breadandwine · 29/01/2014 01:53

Hi MoreBeta

You're right about the amount of yeast affecting the speed of rising - put simply, the more yeast the faster it'll rise, the less yeast the longer it'll take. Not so sure about 'further', though!

Once yeast is dissolved, it can be used straight away - no need to wait.

Sadly I cant eat any of it as I am severely intolerant to gluten - I have never tasted any loaf of bread I ever made. My family say they are nice though.

That's too bad - I really feel for you!

I'm sure you'll have researched the subject thoroughly, but, just in case, have look at this post on my blog dedicated to GF baking

BTW, LEL, I notice, in your pic, a sachet of fast-acting yeast. If this is the yeast you're using, I'd recommend you change it to either fresh yeast (available from Sainsbury's or Asda at the bakery counter) or dried active yeast (available from every supermarket - and HFS and small baker - to be found in the Home Baking section).

Unfortunately, I have no experience of using fast-acting yeast in the small quantities we're using here.

My Mumsnet loaf (pictured above) was made with dried active yeast.

One thing we haven't covered is the softness of the dough - the more water you can get into a dough, the better it will rise. Which is why I've included 350g of water (70% hydration - ratio of flour to water, 100:70) - the dough really does need to be soft and squishy.

Might be the answer to your problem, Coffee.

The beery smell is unlikely to come from proving it too long - I regularly prove mine for 24 hours or longer and there's no sign of it. Most likely it's because the loaf is underdone in the middle - but it's difficult to be certain.

Don't let it prove too long. I would say 20 - 30 mins max in a warm place.

As I said earlier, I would never put a time on the final proving - the baker needs to make a judgement about the size of the loaf relative to first putting it to prove. If it hasn't risen after the 30 mins you're going to get a dense loaf. You will most likely get some oven spring, but it's not something a beginner can rely on.

blueyama that's an interesting oven you've got there. I'm certain you'll be able to make bread in it. Have a look at this quick bread, ready in minutes. You're only risking 100g of flour (if you have no s/raising flour, use plain flour with 1 tsp baking powder), so you can experiment without it costing too much.

I'd use the 250W setting initially, then, if that works OK, then try with 500W. If you can bake the 13 minute bread, and you have access to yeast, have a go with 200g of bread flour, made into 4 rolls. I'll let you have a recipe if you need one.

blueyama · 29/01/2014 03:39

Wow breadandwine, I've just looked at your blog, you're a veritable bread expert!

I will try your 13 minute bread tonight, I have a feeling that DH is going to be very happy I stumbled across this thread :)

I'll let you know how I get on and then maybe I can graduate to using my toaster oven Wink

AbsintheAndChips · 29/01/2014 07:12

This worked well for me:

www.steamykitchen.com/168-no-knead-bread-revisited.html

floral14 · 29/01/2014 09:16

same as Absinthe - the no-knead bread is a favourite here.

LocalEdLeicsshire · 29/01/2014 09:37

Loaf no. 3: beery!

Thank you all for this advice: the loaf was again, perfectly edible (no photos, because we ate it all last night!), but no higher. Basically, it's not rising much at all during the proving stage. it comes out of the oven still a little damp in the middle, with a distinct beery, fermented smell.

Here are some answers to your questions, and yet more questions from me!

It is currently rising in the airing cupboard. Fridge has been abandoned - the whole house is a fridge at this time of year, anyway!

I am indeed using strong bread flour.

I have just ordered some dried action yeast, so should have that in time for Loaf no. 4, on Thursday. With the yeast I'm currently using, it never 'froths up' at all.

I added a tiny bit more salt and the flavour definitely improved.

I like all the suggestions for other loaves - I have made a few loaves of bread before, following various different recipes, and they've turned out fine. What I really want to do now is find out if I can make a loaf that fits in better with my daily schedule. The problem with all the 2-3 hour blocks of time is that they don't really fit with all the stuff I need to do. It may be that I have to admit defeat - but not just yet!

So: do we think that if I use different yeast, it will work? Or should I use more yeast? Should I leave it in the airing-cupboard for both stages?

OP posts:
MoreBeta · 29/01/2014 10:12

LocalEd - we are all telling you what to do but not telling you what disasters we all had when we started baking bread. I used to produce bricks quite regularly or 'beery bread'. You are doing really well compared to my initial disasters. Keep going.

My inspiration to have a go at baking bread was reading the Real Bread Campaign website and then the book Knead to Know which has fantastic bread recipes and huge amount about why good bread is important and why our supermarket BTP manufactured bread is not. The book is in a 33% off sale at the moment on the website. I strongly recommend buying it to anyone that is interested.

Breadandwine - wow you are a professional level baker and you teach it too. What an interesting CV you have. Didnt know you were a chap - me too.

Grin

Your blog is fab. Like you, I get a bit evangelical about bread to people because I suffer from severe gluten intolerance and I also used to be a farmer so I know what happened in the 1970s to our bread process and the things plant breeders did to our wheat. I think the explosion in IBS type symptoms came from that period and I just happen to one of the unlucky people who suffer so badly from contact with gluten it has made me permanently ill. Good bread is really important.

GF is a whole different ball game. I have had to train myself from scratch since I was diagnosed. Like you I found pancakes (but with plain Doves flour and egg and lactofree milk) work well for me. I don't eat much GF bread as its not that nice really. More like a cake with yeast in and pretty dry after one day. Its for the freezer really unless eaten within hours. Mostly don't eat it now. Lots of home made GF pastry, cakes, porridge, pancakes, granola to make up for it.

blueyama - that horizontal toaster oven of your sounds really interesting. I went and joined in on a degree course at local university that has a good cooking school and worked in their kitchens a few summers back. They had 'deck ovens' where we cooked all our pastry and cakes (we didn't do bread) and they were a fantastic. Like an oven with lots of narrow horizontal drawers and doors that flip open with a leverin. We just sat the cake tins/trays straight on the 'deck' of the oven which was made out of a sort of ceramic brick.

Although I just fitted a new electric double oven in my house it still doesn't do the job the same. I have been using a really hot metal tray to try and get the same effect and thinking of using a pizza stone to bake bread on.

blueyama · 29/01/2014 11:43

13 minute bread attempt no.1 is in the frying pan :)

Breadandwine · 29/01/2014 12:10

Absinthe Thanks for that link - as I read through it, I was mentally applauding everything that mother was doing!

And that made me think perhaps we're over-complicating what is in essence a very simple process.

I have my own version of the no-knead, overnight loaf on my blog where I separate out the two techniques required. That is, the no-knead long fermentation part of it - and then the loaf is baked as normal. Then there is the 'cloche', or under-cover, method of baking it in a pot.

I think the best thing for you, LEL, is to mix your dough up as you've been doing, leave it in the food storer all night and up until you're ready to bake it - just as I describe in method C, here.

And I shall put that link you gave me on my blog, Absinthe - thanks again!

MoreBeta I'm off to town shortly, then to my care home for some baking (with friends), so I'll get back to you later tonight.

Happy breadmaking, everyone! Grin

B&W

Peekaboomoo · 29/01/2014 15:11

morebeta are you me?! I'm gluten free too! I make pizza dough in our breadmaker too (the fridge version is when I make it at work, long story). Have also tried brioche, cakes, and jam in breadmaker. It's fab, we use it several times a week and have done for the 4 years or so we've owned it, definitely a good purchase.

MoreBeta · 29/01/2014 15:17

Peekaboo - I'd definitely have a bread maker over a food mixer every time. So versatile and labour saving.

Do you ever get that massive almost overwhelming craving to shove a big warm fresh bit of gluten packed bread in your face though straight out of the breadmaker and hang the consequences.

I still do - but obviously I resist! Grin

Peekaboomoo · 29/01/2014 17:35

Yes morebeta I definitely get that desperate feeling to throw caution to the wind and just eat it (but I know it won't be worth it once the stomach pain starts so I never do)

LocalEditorWolverhampton · 29/01/2014 19:37

LEL, fancy joining us with your loaf Grin on a WM LE's meet?

RedLentil · 29/01/2014 20:33

Another person using the thread as gluten porn. Not to derail, but any tips on baking GF bread would be appreciated.

Breadandwine · 30/01/2014 00:35

Thanks for the nice words about my blog, folks! I started it because I wanted to write about my breadmaking experiences - in fact I must have made half a dozen abortive starts on writing a book. Then blogging came along, and that seems to satisfy that particular urge! Smile

what disasters we all had when we started baking bread.

Well said, MoreBeta! (As one bloke to another! Grin)

I was fortunate enough to avoid disasters in the early days, but I've certainly had my share since! Grin

Thanks for mentioning the Real Bread Campaign - of which I'm a member - I was going to bring it up at some stage because I also think it's important.

About GF baking - have you read Andrew Whitley's Bread Matters? He has a whole chapter on the subject, with a thorough review of a variety of flours used in GF baking.

I myself dabble with the subject, really. I have taught GF workshops - but that was a long time ago and was mainly for people who had access to prescription flours, which worked pretty well, by and large.

I made a pretty decent GF chocolate cake the other day, using Dove's s/raising flour - the recipe is on my blog.

blueyama how did the 13 minute bread turn out? All feedback - good or bad (especially bad) is welcome - so I can be confident about my recipes.

Await results of Loaf no. 4 with interest, LEL!

I volunteered my services to a local Children's Centre today - to do a breadmaking session next week. Within half an hour, someone from the centre contacted me to ask if I would do some breadmaking with a Saturday Men's group they were running - and what did were my fees?

Talk about casting your bread on the waters! I consider myself incredibly lucky!

LocalEdLeicsshire · 30/01/2014 09:34

LocalEditorWolverhampton - a meet-up could be good! Let's discuss in the Hideout, shall we - I've got a thread there called 'If you bake bread...'

Loaf no. 4 starting tonight. With the proper yeast. This one is going to be sensational.

OP posts:
blueyama · 30/01/2014 09:47

Here's my 13 minute frying pan flatbread! I have no idea if it was meant to look like this haha.

When I first made it, it was reeeeally gloopy and sticky, so I had to add a bit more flour. It tasted good though! I think I'm ready to progress to attempt to making something in the toaster oven! What do you think B&W? :)

This is the Bread Thread!
MoreBeta · 30/01/2014 14:42

B&W - I will check out that Bread Matters chapter on GF.

To be honest GF bread is not really bread. The chemistry is totally different and making it isn't like making a bread with gluten in. As you know the mixture is like a cake batter, not a dough.

blueyama - I think the flatbread is really interesting and looks great. I have often considered making a kind of flat bread out of GF flour. It would make a nice base for a GF pizza too. I'll give that a go in my black iron frying pan.

RedLentil after making GF bread loaves quite successfully in a bread maker I think that is the way you need to go if you want a 'loaf' but eat it on the day. Most breadmakers have a GF program. However, in truth I don't make GF bread any more. I just find it too unpalatable unless eaten really fresh and also the addition of Xanthan Gum that most recipes require is not good. It is a glue effectively and not good for you to eat long term. It also leaves a bitter aftertaste.

Instead, I make GF scones, cheese cobblers and cornbread now as well as really good GF cakes and tarts. I just don't need GF bread and all my family and friends like them and are amazed when I tell them there is no flour in them. In fact cakes and tarts are better made GF than with wheat flour.

I have also thought of flat bread as an alternative and perhaps also making dampers. Things like pancakes and griddle cakes are also just a matter of a good hot flat iron surface which I do quite regularly.

A GF diet is somewhat restrictive and I worry about nutrition using ONLY a white GF flour all the time. Adding brown rice flour and other wholemeals is something I need to move on to.

LocalEditorSouthwark · 30/01/2014 15:06

I am in absolute awe ... can '00' flour be used in place of strong bread flour??

MoreBeta · 30/01/2014 15:13

I tend not to use 'Strong' bread flour for my bread as I find a slightly lower protein flour rises better and gives lighter bread which my wife prefers. She finds bread made from strong flour too difficult to digest and gets IBS but lighter continental bread made form slightly lower protein flour is quite palatable.. The 'Tipo 00' is a slightly lower protein flour and I don't see why you cant make bread with it.

It will come out different from a high protein flour and you might need to juggle a bit with the recipe - but that's all part of breadmaking. Its not just a matter of measuring stuff and mixing. Dough is a living thing and I find varies by time of year and from year to year as wheat varies with the harvest.

Breadandwine · 30/01/2014 15:14

Just a quick one for LES:

Yes - 00 flour is another version (IIRC) of a strong flour. It'll certainly make bread! Smile

Back in a mo - with some pics for you, blueyama!

Breadandwine · 30/01/2014 15:45

blueyama I've now got some pics on the blog of the whole process - here's the finished product to be going along with.

Yours, as MoreBeta says, more like a flatbread. In fact, if you were to call it a naan bread - you'd be pretty close to the mark. All it needed was some creamed coconut and some black onion seeds! Grin

But the important thing is - you've made bread in a frying pan! Now the sky's the limit. Hopefully, my pics will show you more the bread I was talking about - which is like a large bap.

Next time I make it I'll make it a bit flatter - say 1.5cm thick - which means it'll cook a little quicker. The trouble with a thick bap, like the one here, is that it needs to be left on the stove a little longer to cook the middle - so the outsides get a little singed.

With a gas hob it's quite tricky to get the height of the flame just right. But, hey, I didn't notice any burnt bits, it tasted just fine to me.

With an electric hob you'll get the same heat each time you bake.

BY about your toaster oven - why not try a doubled up recipe in there? It's all about experimenting - (sometimes it's about having the courage to experiment). As I said upthread to LEL, the first go will be a marker - once you've made it, you can make adjustments as required.

MoreBeta Andrew Whitley's take on GF breads is that each flour has its own attributes - so he endeavours to get the best loaves without trying to recreate a wheat loaf. I rate the guy highly!

I've just seen your latest post:

I tend not to use 'Strong' bread flour for my bread as I find a slightly lower protein flour rises better and gives lighter bread

That's not been my experience - I've done side-by-side tests that show that strong flour produces a better risen loaf that keeps better as well.

But, hey, I'm a great believer in 'Whatever work for you!'

About IBS, there are several people on the Mumsnet 5:2 fasting threads who have completely banished the symptoms when practicing 5:2. Check it out!

B&W

This is the Bread Thread!
Scarletohello · 30/01/2014 16:29

Does anyone know how to make German style bread? When I've been to Germany I've been so amazed by how delicious their bread is! I wish we had bread like that here. However, if I can't buy it, I'd love to be able to make it....

MoreBeta · 31/01/2014 12:55

German bread is typically sourdough and rye based. It often has inclusions like poppy seeds often as well.

Making a sourdough starter is the key and then getting rye flour.