New Secondary Schools for Richmond 2

[BayJay]

I'm starting this new thread because the other one of the same name has filled up.

I thought I saw a figure of about 200 on a council FOI request on RISC's website. But not sure if those from out of borough in RuT RC schools included. Still high though. I think it would still be a culture shock to have 10 options narrow down to one - equally I can't see tbe fairness of it just being another choice attracting pupils from other boroughs but excluding most RuT ones.

Wish I could work some cohesive magic on my own child's cohort (to stick to state over private would be a start).

seenbutnotheard - will be interested in what choice you will make for your kids if you had 3 options in 2013 1) An average Catholic VA school at Clifden 2) An outstanding academy 3) An outstanding Catholic outside borough but closer to yr home compared to Clifden. I respect yr views but do not agree with yr argument on continuity of education for 2 reasons a) at some stage ( university or work) kids to have enter the real world that is not segregated b) what about continuity of education for those who want community schools. The teaching at HA and TA is based on Sweedish system and want in line with what our kids are learning at primary level. Should we all opt out of these academies and ask for new school under pretext of continuity of education ? We can all discuss till the cows come home on merits and demerits of type of school at Clifden. What is important is that Council puts all options for school types on the table and seeks public opinion from everybody and then in a fair manner evaluates them to make a decision. We are in a democracy and not a dictatorship and do not want a decision just based on a 3 line whip issued by the Council leader and no genuine public input. But lets remember that community harmony is priceless - Here is also some food 4 thought - www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/29/northern-ireland-segregated-schools-peter-robinson

Hi Kewcumber, it was 26% went private last year at KR, which is a bit higher but clear majority went state including grammar.

Akhan - the school on the Clifden site will be my children's closest school.

I have already said, several times, that 'we live just around the corner from an 'outstanding' non-denominational primary and chose to go the primary attached to our Catholic Church which is 'good' rather than outstanding and a little further away.'

It is not all about Outstanding Ofsted status - I know that you would like to have everyone believe this, but it really is not true.

The council have already said that they will engage in a full public consultation - what more do you want them to say?

Again - My point is, that if the council needs to accept the fact that Catholic children will need to be educated in borough, I don't think that it is unreasonable that they try to provide a school that meets their faith needs if these children will be taking up inclusive places anyway.

In terms of the type of schools that the Acadamies are, I did not really get involved in the consultation about this, prior to the change over - did you? The conversion to Acadamy status was initiated by the Lib Dems was is not?

As to the article that you linked to Akhan - as interesting as I find NI politics, I really do not see that many of the arguments bare any relation to what is going on here.

The issue around religion in NI is very much political with Catholics favouring an Irish republic and 'Protestants' being against it.

seenbutnotheard: we do not know what the council consultation will amount to and what influence if any it will have on what happens. I suggested on the earlier thread that it will do no more than invite residents to choose which saint the school should be named after - St Thomas More would be a good choice given the borough?s strong Tudor links. I still think that is what will happen.

Hampton, Whitton and Shene schools were converted to academies in order to get access to the substantial funding that only academies could get from the then Labour government; they needed an external sponsor to tak eiver the government of the school from the governors. These schools are or soon will be much improved as a result.

The new Tory academies do not attract similar funding but there is a much smaller bribe instead, sufficient to get all our schools to convert. This bribe comes of course out of the budget for the rest. They do not need an external sponsor - they are in effect, I think, a recreation of the old ?direct grant? schools. How well this uncontrolled experiment in school reform will work we will find out as the years go by.

Chris - you do make me laugh sometimes - I am going to ignore your quip about what the consultaion will consist of - I have a little more faith that it will be tad more thorough than that - after all, it was you who mentioned that if it were not, we might be in the situation of someone requesting a Judicial Review.

I agree with your statment that Acadamies "are, or soon will be very much improved as a result" and I think that the decision in reagards to what this new school has the potential to be needs to be made in light of this.

Sorry for my rubbish spelling

Chris - You have high expectations if you think Lord True will consult even on name of the school. As reported in press last week, he has already decided that the name will be Pope Benedict school. So the consultation could well be be " Do you understand that we will open Pope Benedict School at Clifden Road site?".

seenbutnotheard: I was in fact only thinking of their buildings when I wrote this; how rapidly that is being translated into improved performance I don't know. My impression from what's been posted here is that Richmond Park Academy in particular still has a lot of improving to do before it will become a serious option for the Twickenham middle class, who must regard it as no more than an inner London comp of the kind they moved to Twickenham to get away from. However I will be glad to be told that I'm wrong.

It's easy to poke fun at the 'middle class' Chris, however education is a good leveller. My experience of Twickenham parents is that whatever class background they're from they generally pretty well educated and aspirational. Unfortunately they're also very mobile, and people tend to move on to avoid problems rather than stick around to try and change things. That leads to a very transient community. I moved into my street 8 years ago, and most of the other 30+ houses have changed hands at least once since then. Good schools ultimately lead to strong stable communities.

Council is refusing to acknowledge the scenario that places could be short by 2013 and using unrealistic assumptions that Hounslow will have spaces for all its pupils who leave Richmond schools. They would want all non catholic minorities to move out to Hounslow - it would be better for them to spit out their prejudice, rather than fudge the numbers.

BayJay: No fun was being poked. It is well known that Richmond borough is where inner south London?s middle class move to when they wish to breed.

Your annual turnover (more than 12 %) seems very high to me: Zoopla state that the turnover for TW1 is 20 % in 5 years, = 4 % p.a. or 100 % in 25 years rather than 8. Here in East Twickenham the family homes close to Orleans Infants and secondary school turn over very slowly and are snapped up for inflated prices when they come on the market. Pushy pushchair parents and their kids are everywhere.

"It is well known that Richmond borough is where inner south London?s middle class move to when they wish to breed"

Chris, I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's a horribly cynical way of expressing it.

My street, and the surrounding streets, do have a very high turnover. Young couples move in from places like Clapham/Fulham/Hammersmith. They generally have a baby within the first year, maybe another a year or two later. Then they either move out of the area completely before the oldest child starts Reception, or else they stick around for a bit and do up their house (usually loft extension & kitchen extension). In the past they then tended to move once the older child started secondary school. However, more recently people have started to move sooner. Those with girls are moving closer to Waldegrave, and those with boys move closer to either Orleans Park or Teddington, depending on which one their primary is linked to.

We also have a huge problem with parking which pushes people into moving earlier than they might have originally expected, but that issue is worthy of another thread in itself!

A bit off topic but since we are waiting for Michael Gove - he's a man of surprises isn't he?

Chris, thanks for the link to Zoopla. I searched on my street and there have been 20 sales since we moved in. However, there are also some rental properties that have changed hands multiple times.

Akhon = I am really sorry your community feels prejudiced. Clearly we have a good history of communal harmony and integration in Richmond and do want to sustain that. Lets hope the fundamentalist attitude of exclusivity is relaxed and the Council shows more humility, respect and tolerance. It will have to respond to the voice of over 3000 ordinary people from all backgrounds, all over Richmond, who have voluntarily and without any whips from schools or churches or organisation demanded inclusive education.

Just linking to this BBC article about Catholic schools switching to academy status. The Westminster and Southwark diocese are both consulting about switching their existing VA schools to Academy status. That backs up the generally accepted view that a VA school at Clifden would convert to an academy soon after opening, and is only proposing to open as a VA school to get round the 50:50 admissions rules of new academies.

Richmond Council press release dated 02/12/2011 'High quality secondary education for all'. Does this tell us anything new?

The press release relates to a Nov 24 cabinet paper minutes Secondary School Priorities which says:

. . 3.3 Catholic secondary school: The proposed establishment of a Catholic secondary school would be subject to consultation and the statutory proposal process. The consultation will be considered in a future report to Cabinet . . It covers the same topics as the paper for the scrutiny meeting on Nov 21.

Cat2405, no, nothing new. It relates to the strategy presented at the last scrutiny meeting and approved at the subsequent cabinet meeting. RISC responded with some additional analysis and have also issued a press release. It's not on their website yet but it was put on their facebook page this morning. Maybe someone could post the link as I'm on my mobile at the mo and it's more difficult.

I can't find their Facebook page: facebook "Richmond Inclusive Schools Campaign"

I think this is what you mean BayJay: www.facebook.com/groups/faithschoolsrichmond

It does rather strike me as odd that the 'quality' places they are talking about are all in faith schools. 150 new places in a Catholic school, 30 more in a CofE school. 40 less in the academies, 40 less in Grey Court (back to its usual number). Perhaps 50 more in a Maharishi free school? There's not much of a choice if you don't want a faith school - either because you're not of the faith in quesion or just prefer a 100% inclusive school. The council's concept of 'choice' is questionable.

The Admissions Body (of the Lancashire Maharishi school) is the Management Committee of Maharishi Free School. The maximum number of children admitted to any year group is 15.

This would mean 165 places in toto once the school runs to Year 11 but only half a reception class each year.

Classes at Maharishi Free School are kept small to enable our teachers to know their pupils very well and for individual classes to form strong, supportive relationships . .
This policy means that pupils in the primary school (Reception to Year 6) will be in a class of 20 pupils or less, while pupils in the secondary school are in classes of 12 or less . .