Relocation packages. What do you get?

[dilbertina]

DH's company want him to move to a Paris-based role (from UK, for poss. 3 years). He is due to discuss relocation package with HR next week, what is worth asking about/for?

We have two dc: dd 5yo and ds 2yo and dc3 is due next April (we would be moving next summer). I would need to give up my job (only 3 days /week but am fairly senior) Currently I get private healthcare and very good pension contributions from my company into a personal pension plan, would it be cheeky to expect them to make up some of the shortfall we will incur for this?

My French is pretty useless and I'd like to do some conversation classes but would need childcare...is this the sort of thing I could get relocation agent onto finding out about?

Pretty sure they'll cover our rent for first 6-12 months, fair bit of school fees for dd to go to an English speaking school, some removal costs etc. What else is worth asking about?

Many thanks in advance!

Regular trips home, any expenses regarding moving pets (quarantine, extra vaccinations etc). Schools, childcare, removal, a month in a hotel while you find a place to rent - those are the important ones off the top of my head.

Definitely ask about making up what you'll be losing. A very cheeky friend of mine was up for relocation to New York when things were serious with her boyfriend. She bought a fake diamond "engagement" ring, put it on her ring finger on her way to the interview and told the HR department well, I've just got engaged so you're going to have to double the travel allowances and make up some of his salary. They gave her everything she asked for, so she went home and told her boyfriend they'd have to get married now because her company was offering him money to relocate too.

Bottom line is that if you don't ask, you don't get.

I'm in Paris, so I can tell you what would be nice to have in order to lead a lovely life here . Then you can negotiate it.

School/childcare:

DD1 (I presume born in 2003) will be entering CP (the first of five years of primary school) next September. You would presumably wish her to go to a French-English bilingual school with adaptation classes for non-French speakers? Or do you absolutely want a fully English school (which will be MUCH more expensive).

DS1 (I presume born in 2006) will be entering Petite Section (the first of three years of pre-school). You would presumably wish this to be on the same site as your daughter's primary school.

DC3 - will presumably be at home with you.

School fees for a bilingual French-English school are around EUR 5,000 all told per child per year (there may be sibling discounts). You need to decide which school you are after, as that will determine where you want to live (it is important in Paris to live very close to school as logistics are quite complicated). You might also want to add on the cost of extra-curricular sports/music, as school (unlike a UK private school) will not provide proper sports/music tuition and you will need to purchase it on top of school fees. Each activity (ballet, tennis, music) will cost about 500-600 euros a year.

Rent

You should expect your rent to be covered/subsidised for the duration, with additional temporary accommodation (service flat) costs to be met in full for a few weeks while you are looking for a flat to rent. For a family of five, you will probably be expected to be content with three bedrooms (four bedroom apartments are very expensive and difficult to find) and will pay 3,000-4,000 euros per month in a decent area with expats near a good school.

Car

You will only need one, for the weekend. Everything happens on foot/by bus here. But you might want the company to pay for it.

Private health care

Your DH's company must enrol him and the whole family in a good mutuelle (complementary health insurance) which will top up your health costs over and above the social security reimbursements. Try to make sure the mutuelle pays at the highest rates (eg American Hospital of Paris in Neuilly-sur-Seine) so that you can get treatment in English if needs be. This is a fairly standard perk for expats, don't be frightened of asking for it.

Your pension

I have no idea...

French classes - yes, you can ask for French lessons from your DH's employer. You will only need a little childcare though (for your DC3) so can use a garderie - there are private garderies round and about. They would charge about 40 euros for a morning session.

You could also get a full-time nounou (cleaner-cum-childcarer) as this is very cheap (deductible from French taxes) and that would solve a lot of your childcare problems. Ask your relocation agent to explain how it works for French tax purposes.

Oh - you might also want to add in the rental of a garage for your company car - most apartments in central Paris don't have garages so you either have to park on the street (which is a nightmare) or rent a garage. Say 300 euros a month.

Where will your DH's office be (just to get some idea of where you might want to live)?

Oh - and you need to get a lump sum towards furnishing and fittings in your rental apartment. Most apartments come naked ie no light fittings, kitchen equipment (cupboards or machines), curtains, carpets etc.

Are you going to bring all your furniture with you?

We got

a lump sum to cover any expenses not already covered by the (generous) relocation package, such as redecorating, carpets, curtains etc.

1/2 months salary for not taking up on the storage allowance

10000? for DH giving back his company car, the company normally give a generous allowance for employees coming over from Uk as they have to buy a LHD car

Up to 4 weeks car hire until we found our own car.

Several months (not sure how many as we did not need it) temporary housing

Relocation agency who helped us with the house search.

House finding mission, up to 7 days for both of us to go to destination town. I spent 2 days with the guy from the relocation agency who showed me 5 or 6 houses. This included hotel, car hire/taxi, meals. Oh, and we could have claimed for childcare during this trip, USD 100/day.

Final move, flights, meals for a week I think, hotel for up to a week afair.

Help finding schools, we could have put the DCs into international school, but decided on the excellent local schools so that they learn French, and can make friends locally.

We both get French lessons, up to a certain amount. Either private or group lessons.

We also got Cross-Cultural Training, which involved a guy coming to teach us a bit about Switzerland, one day with us, the emphasis on business dealings for DH, one day with the DCs.

We have not taken everything to the very limit, at the end of the day you have to look at what you are costing the company and if you really need everything that they would cover, eg. I only spent 3 days on the home finding trip instead of 7 days.

Good luck!

We got bugger all, and now that dh's office has closed no help with getting home. But dh's company are tight as a gnats arse, and if we hadn't wanted to make the move we wouldn't have done it. I think it is hugely variable, depending on how generous the company is and how much they value his skills and want him to move . Good luck!

Just remembered, flights home for us all once a year.

Cost of 40ft container and insurance.

Make sure medical ins covers childbirth if you think you might need it, lots of policies dont cover childbirth at all.

Educational consultant if you think you need that.

Interest free loan to cover rent (we have to pay a years rent up front at cost of 60k GBP)!!

If you get the package right it should be great fun.

Thankyou all so much. DH has a meeting with HR bod this Friday to discuss package so we are now better armed!

Anna you are officially my Paris oracle! You asked where DH would be based - his office would be in Meudon. Apparently Saint-Cloud and that area are popular with employees of his company... I would definitely lean towards living outside Central Paris if poss. (We currently live very rurally in uk so it's going to be a shock to the system anyway!)

Many thanks for taking the time to advise us!

Hi Dilbertina,
Actually, I live pretty close to Saint Cloud, although I'm in dept 78 rather than 92, so I can fill you in on the area if you like!

Excellent! Will see what HR say to DH today, and whether it's likely to go ahead...and if so will be back to pick your brains Brioche if that's ok?!

Well it's all looking pretty good, they'll pay for schools, moving etc. Initially we'd be going for 2 years but they prob. would like us to extend to 3. They'll pay all the rent for the entire time...

So now I have a question for Brioche or anyone else that knows the area! Based on the fact we have 3 children our rent allowance will be 2400euros/month (DH beginning to see benefits of yet to arrive DC3!). On the face of it that sounds great, but having done a little bit of looking around prices do seem pretty firm to the west of Paris. Ideally we would like semi-ruralish, 4 bedrooms if poss. , a garden for children & dog. Would rather compromise with fewer rooms to get garden. Are we going to need to subsidise the allowance?

Many thanks.

Um...probably. Depends on where you are. WIll get back to you on that one as kinda busy today!

Hi Brioche, how dare you have a real life and not be devoting yourself to answering my questions!

If/when you (or anyone else!) have a moment can you give me the lowdown on Le Pecq and surrounding area? Have seen a couple of rental properties there that are not too hideously expensive, plus the lycee international have partner nursery & primary there so sounds like a possible place to start looking.

Many thanks

Sorry, Dilbertina, it's the holidays at the moment so I'm running round after the kids!
I like Le Pecq. It's not everyone's cup of tea because it doesn't have a proper "centre" like some towns, but there's lots going on there. There's some nice parks for younger kids, and walks along the river. It's next to Saint Germain En Laye which is very posh and pricey to live in but lovely to go and potter round and shop in! Which areas are you looking at? Le Pecq itself is not rural but you are in the countryside within 5-10 mins.
If you want to be slightly further out / near the forest, you could consider Fourqueux or l'Etang La Ville but I don't know what transport to Meudon would be like. You've also got Louveciennes, Bougival, Garches, Vaucresson- all nice areas and probably less pricey than St Cloud.
I used to live in Le Vesinet and Montesson and now live just the other side of the river.
Don't know if you've been looking on www.seloger.com but that's a good guide to rental property prices.
If you have more specific questions fire away...

www.seloger.com/detail.htm?cp=78&euro=1&idtt=1&idtypebien=2&nb_chambres=%2b4,3,4&nb_pieces=%2b4&px_l oyermax=3500&pxloyermin=1900&IMMOBWANNQRYpg=82#photo[[ [[www.seloger.com/detail.htm?cp=78&euro =1&idtt=1&idtypebien=2&nbchambres=%2b4,3,4&nbpieces=%2b4&pxloyermax=3500&pxloyermin=1900&IMMOBW ANN_QRYpg=110#photo

www.seloger.com/detail.htm?cp=78&euro=1&idtt=1&idtypebien=2&nb_chambres=%2b4,3,4&nb_pieces=%2b4&px_l oyermax=3500&pxloyermin=1900&IMMOBWANNQRYpg=82#photo[[ [[www.seloger.com/detail.htm?cp=78&euro =1&idtt=1&idtypebien=2&nbchambres=%2b4,3,4&nbpieces=%2b4&pxloyermax=3500&pxloyermin=1900&IMMOBW ANN_QRYpg=110#photo

oops, didn't mean to do that....!

Hi Dilbertina

Yes, if you want rural-ish, house and garden suitable for small children and dog for 2,400 euros plus decent schooling, you will be looking at living within striking distance of the Lycée International. You would probably do best talking to the school and seeing where your two elder children might be placed (because there is more than one location for maternelle and primary) and what the school bus/transport is like before taking a decision on a property.

That house is outrageously expensive