Elderly parents want to move to France

[Nighttimeistherightime]

My Mum and stepdad currently live in Spain. They have decided (age 76 and 82) that they want to move to France. They have lived all over the world but have previously been part of thriving ex pat communities. I’ve tried to explain that France is a very different country. In my experience you have to speak French fluently- neither of them do. They don’t even speak Spanish! They are looking at property in rural areas and seem to think that it’ll be easy to assimilate. I’ve tried explaining how tricky it will be and how isolated they might feel but to no avail. Mum has complex medical needs, currently she is well looked after with established contact with her dr in Spain. I think it’s madness to start again as pensioners. Mum has mobility issues so they only really go to shops and restaurants and even then don’t walk far, so won’t be able to explore the area or enjoy days out.
AIBU to keep pointing out what I think are obvious issues or are they right in thinking that low property prices will give them a better standard of living? I’ve always supported them and been proud of their adventurous spirit but this move seems like a step backwards. I’d appreciate the opinion of anyone with more experience- maybe I’m wrong to worry.

@MakeYourOwnSunshinemy parents also In their 70’s always talked about moving and never made any effort to do so. So it was a bit of a shock when they actually did it!

If they don’t have EU citizenship then this is really just a pipe dream. They could only stay a maximum of 90 days then would have to leave. Not sure what the entitlement to healthcare is but I imagine it’ll be quite different to what they can get at the moment with Spanish residency.

Its unlikely to happen so just leave them to it.

It’s such a ridiculous idea. I wouldn’t be tip-toeing around them OP. I would make it clear, multiple times, that it was a crazy idea. I would spell it out to them that if they couldn’t cope, you would not be stepping in to help them, unless it was a health emergency. Going to live in rural France, when neither speak French, and only one of them drives, and both are elderly, is actually insane.

PPs are correct, they will need a visa to live in France, which will require proof of sufficient income and healthcare coverage and accommodation.

OP, offer to help them with the visa applications. See whether they get one. Some time doing this now may save you time, trouble and stress in future.

Total selfish folly!

They are at an age where the decline can be terrifyingly fast. My DM (then 84) went from living independently to now in EOL care in the space of 15 months.

They wont intend now to depend on you to sort everything out when the wheels start to come off the bus. But you will be the one getting the panicked phone calls in the middle of the night because one of them has wandered off/fallen/had a 'funny turn' and the other one doesnt know what to do.

At this stage you can say 'I'm not going to help'. But they wont want to accept becoming frail and dependent until it is already upon them. Then you will be stuck with the choice of trying to sort everything out from a distance or leaving them in squalor.

You can't just "move to France" since Brexit. The bureaucracy in France is complex so you need to speak the language, same with securing potential residency. At their age it is rather unwise.

They are being ridiculous, my parents decided to emigrate at 85. It all went horribly and disastrously wrong and they had to be brought back by us their children causing a huge amount of stress and inconvenience.
We all knew this would happen but they would not listen.
Sure I'd love to emigrate to Canada but I'm 64 and that isn't going to happen now. I'm not leaving everyone and everything I know to retire to an unfamilar country with zero support.

I think needing to speak French will depend on where they go - my parents friends retired in France and had a lovely community with people from all over Europe. And the health care is amazing in France.
There are whole towns really geared up for older people...

Suggest a holiday in the place they are thinking of moving to and see how they get on? If they find it difficult to communicate they may change their minds. And if it's all fine they can carry on and move if they are allowed to.

Looks like they couldn’t move from what people who know about visa requirements have written. I just wouldn’t offer to assist with any of this. Just tell them they need to apply for a visa first and leave them to it. It’s like my MIL wants to move, relocating within the UK. When she first mooted this I did look in to removal costs. I was shocked just how much they are. Over the last 5 years she has done nothing at all to facilitate a move.

If they don’t have EU passports they will find it hard to move to France. Brexit put paid to all that freedom sadly.

Have a look at the FCDO Living in France advice here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-france

Be much cheaper and less complicated OP for them to have frequent trips - lots of French sites do monthly rentals for as little as 700 euris - would be less costly too - it would make more sense for them to change locally to something with less land - as I said before it isn’t straight forward post Brexit- permanent residency only gives you the right to PR ‘there’ otherwise you are starting from scratch with income requirements etc - if they can’t afford someone to do their land they are either tight or would struggle to fit the income requirements post Brexit .

If they go to the Dordogne they'll probably be fine, loads of English living there, most doctors speak English etc. Northern France would be a lot trickier. No one in our village speaks English. They could possibly get by using Google translate on their phones, depending on their tech skills.

Maybe suggest they rent a gite or air b and b and spend a month in the area that they want to live. I think they will soon realise how difficult it is.

DH Uncle does live in France but he retired there before Brexit and is also wealthy. I also have an ex colleague who did the same, they both speak French.

I wonder if some people do this because they are bored and also want to fool themselves in to thinking they are young enough to do it? We are relocating but within an hour of where we live and by then we will be 60 and 62. It will be our last move to a home we choose and there is a bit of an uggh this is the place that will probably see us out. Maybe it’s a mental way of avoiding the inevitable and thinking of the void after we have slipped off this mortal coil.

As DH says it’s ’end game, no respawn’.

@wishingonastar101 I think OP said her parents planned to live rurally.

Once they start actually house hunting in rural France, that will probably be the reality check they need.

Have they actually put their current house on the market?

I agree with the points that you've made but YABU to keep pointing out the obvious issues because they are not going to listen to you. All that's going to happen is that it will put a strain on your relationship. They are going to do what they are going to do.

Ok, we live in rural France. Property here does look cheap compared to the uk , but the cost of living? From what I can gather grocery prices are cheaper in Spain as well as fuel prices. France currently is cold and wet and windy , winter is much more wintery than Spain!

Since Brexit you need to have income of more than the minimum wage per person to move here, about €1850 pcm. They will also need to pass a test in French language to A2 level (not right away but when they renew their visa). They probably don’t realise that their Spanish residency card issued under the withdrawal agreement only applies to Spain. French bureaucracy is mind numbingly complex -it’s almost an art form!

So let’s say they have the money, and can pay for help with the visa and with everything else paperwork.

Driving: there isn’t much in the way of public transport and Ubers are not a thing outside the towns.
Community: there are areas with big expat communities, but the property is more expensive. “Dordognshire” for example.

Inheritance laws are different- very different!

Parts of France are a medical desert - healthcare overall is very good, but finding a GP can be very challenging. Our local area now has a traveling clinic in a van which arrives about once a fortnight for booked appointments. It’s 35km to the nearest a&6 too and the major specialty hospitals are 50km away.

We love where we live - I’ve tried to point out the bad parts. Will we still be here when we are 80? Probably not- neither of us want to be on our own here, away from family, possibly needing care in a country where we don’t speak the language to a high standard.

Could you suggest kindly to your parents that they ask the question and seek advice over on Gransnet?
(I’ve seen a good number of experienced posters on there - esp the difficulties encountered with local administration, also when one parter is left alone when the first partner passes away)

I strongly suspect it won't happen and so there's no point challenging them too strongly.

It's a nice dream. They probably want to feel they have another adventure in them. The logistics of packing up and moving country at their age may soon bring them back to earth.

Nod along for now. Agree it would be nice while continuing to strategically point out pitfalls presented as questions.

'That sounds great. Do you think you'll be able to find a doctor as nice as Dr X?'

'That land looks lovely. Will the move free up enough for a gardener?' etc.

Plant the seeds but step back and let them come to their own conclusion.

Care for the elderly will be difficult without language fluency in both France and Spain. On a day to day basis, they will be dealing with people and carers who are not very likely to be bilingual, and there's no guarantee of English TV in all care homes. You will probably need translators for medical appointments. We are having real problems with an aged aunt who is no longer mobile.

Absolutely NO for them moving to France - especially to rural area - but maybe to a flat in a town like Antibes. I had a house in France for 20 years, sold now - my daughter speaks fluent French and works there - so helped. What if one of them dies in next few years - how will partner cope alone?

I feel your frustration, OP. I know it's not the same, but my late mother decided to go on a rather ambitious holiday a few years back. We all knew what would happen but she would hear none of it.

The inevitable happened and it was a complete pain in the neck to sort things out. I think I am in camp 'spell it out to them forcefully and a little harshly what WILL happen if they undertake this move'.

You’re right - a lower cost of living is not a good reason for two elderly people who don’t speak French to move to rural France. Spain is a completely different place and there are lots of services there that are accessible to English speakers, due to the large number of English speaking retirees who don’t speak Spanish. Their plan is madness IMO, but if they’re determined to do it and have capacity I don’t see what you can do about it if your powers of persuasion aren’t enough to change their minds. I would be clear though that if they make this move and it all goes wrong the level of help you are willing/able to give.