Moving to France 🇫🇷

[tukker]

We are packing for the move in August. My daughter is 16 and looking forward to going to the local lycée, we have been in touch with them and they are very relaxed, I've emailed them to confirm dates for inscription in July but no reply?
I love the area we are moving to in Burgundy and we already have a house, so much to do, I just keep getting cold feet about it all! Some days I think its a great idea and other days I'm really anxious. Is this normal?

Thank you all - very insightful! I will update you in months to come if we have failed.

Well I am sure we would also like to hear about the successes!

I send you lots of good luck and hope that you will find lots on this thread that will help you navigate the path ahead for your daughter.

No one will take any joy hearing if you fail. No-one wants you to fail, that is why we are taking time to give advice based on our experiences.

Bonne courage !

I don't think anyone wants your daughter to fail, we're just trying to point out the difficulties our own children have experienced in the French education system and most, like my own children, started in maternelle.

I'll give you an example of how fucked up the French education system is, my DC1 is just finishing his first year of uni, his lecturer has all the students' names listed on his classroom wall in order of how well they're progressing in the class, so those doing well are at the top, those who are struggling at the bottom. Every person who enters the classroom can see this information

The reasoning behind this is to encourage the ones doing well and motivate the ones doing badly.

And sadly, this is not a completely unusual scenario for the education system, although fortunately less so in primaire and college so things are changing.

Now imagine if your daughter has a teacher like that, and every week she is at the bottom of the class because her French wasn't good enough, or she didn't understand the consignes for the test or any number of reasons just based on lack of comprehension and not her level of intelligence or effort. It will destroy your lovely enthusiastic daughter.

France is a great place to live, but the education system shocks me and I've put two children through it and I work in it. My DCs have done very well there's no denying it, but if I had my time again, knowing what I know now, I'm not sure I would do it again and I certainly wouldn't do it at lycée level. If your daughter is 16 she only has 2 years left in the UK system I would let her get her A levels so at least she has a complete educational portfolio and some choice for higher education.

Agree with PP. We don't want your DD to fail. However we are living with the French education system now. And we know how hard it is for DC who have spoken French since the beginning.

You say your DD is self taught. That shows huge motivation which is great. However it doesn't mean that she can do the BAC in French in 2 years time (or less with the contrôle continu)

Maybe many of us wish we were your DD with the world at her feet ! Wishing you an amazing time going to live in France, am sure you will ace it especially if you already have your house there and local friends.

I moved to France at 17 and went straight into première. I was already bilingual (lived in France for 2 years as a child) but really really struggled. I did the French bac at the end of the year and got 4/20. Instead of going into terminale I ended up doing A-levels as an external candidate. I then went on to do a normal uni course here.
If I had to do it again... I wouldn't change a thing!

(Here being France)

Coming from someone who moved to France aged 7, who learned French in CP and did all my education in France (primaire, collège & lycée), I'd say your daughter will struggle in première. What options has she chosen ? Not that it would make much difference. In all honestly op, and this isn't to be discouraging or negative, but I reckon you will find the move very hard. Assuming you are in your 40's at least ? My parents had just turned 40 when we moved and they found it very hard to integrate with the French, get jobs, socialise, make friends (the list goes on). I was a child thrown in at the deep end at the local primary and picked up fluent French within 6 months, but I had just turned 7 so you acquire language crazy fast at that age! And obviously the younger you are the easier it is to learn. I'd say your daughter is 16 so it will be harder for her HOWEVER by not putting her in an international school, she stands a better chance of actually learning French quite quickly given she is relatively young still. Pretty much no one spoke any English at my schools so if this is the case for your DD, she'll learn quick. If she's mixing with English speakers, this will hold her back. As for the course work, it's going to be hard regardless of her level because she'll be late joining the lycée, course work is harder than in the uk and quite frankly she'll have a lot on her plate trying to integrate, make friends etc. Course work on top of all of this and learning French - it's a lot.

@tukker - what bac is your DD going to do ?

Bac S is mainly geared towards maths/sciences/geometry/numbers etc. They still do languages and philosophy but the grades she'd get in these subjects would count less overall in the final bac grade (I.e in a bac S, the grade given in philosophy counts times 1x but the grade obtained in chemistry for example counts more, for example times 4x). This is well suited to someone who's interested in studying medicine at University afterwards, or engineering etc.

Bac L is all French literature of course... Voltaire, Flaubert etc etc. Philosophy of course. And foreign languages. Like PP said, she won't be learning how to conjugate French here but will be fully expected to have read all of the old French classics, expected to be able to write long essays articulating beautifully and referencing her opinions. It's seen as a more 'artsy' bac, think book worm, art gallery, novelist, poetry, journalism etc.

Bac ES is sociologie, economics, leaning more towards business, current affaires/geo politics and of course, foreign languages and philosophy.

These three bacs are called 'un baccalauréat général' and are very well regarded. Mainly because it allows you to study the general university degrees (licence/master).

There is also the option of doing one of the bac technologique - brought into help those seen as less 'academic' and more 'practical' - studying computers/technology, business, management, HR, négociations, some basic law and economics. And foreign languages of course. And so much more!

However with a bac technologique, your DD wouldn't be able to apply directly for a bachelors degree for example (une licence). She would have to take a different route into university via a BTS/DUT which is a two year university course - more practical/less academic.

I would strongly recommend that your DD redouble into Second where she has time to find her feet and get to grips with the options. All kids in Second are sussing out which bac is best suited to them, and they have until the end of the year to choose their bac option. The ones strong in maths will choose S and the ones good with books usually choose L. Those who love human sciences may choose ES. Those who love technology, business development/strategies or management might choose from one of the bac technologique... the point is, in second you can do a bit of everything , see what you're good at and then choose your bac. Once you've picked, schools don't let you swap usually so it's important to get it right in second. If she goes straight into premiere and picked the wrong option, it could get messy for her.

L, S & ES don't exist any more!

Yes you're right. I left French education in the noughties and haven't looked back... so not up to speed anymore. My bad.

Regardless the course work will be just as hard as it was back then. I remember endless contrôles surprises and getting les devoirs back with angry writing in red capital blocks across the paper saying "ridicule" "n'importe quoi!" They don't hold back!

My partners 2 sons have also been through the French system so we know it is tough but my DD has seen that they have prevailed, they are bilingual and have a great life and it gives her hope. She has been learning French off her own back for the past 8 years. I never imagined she would want to go and live there but she does so thats what we are doing (as we can). We have to give it a shot!

Everyone seems to feel that the French system is brutal in general terms but that their kids/they were actually fine - I think if you go in at at maternelle and know nothing else you will have no problem (assuming you don't have any learning difficulties). Once you've experienced another way and seen that education can be a nurturing, encouraging and fun experience then it's very hard to go back (and that applies to French children I've known who've sampled the British system). DH and I (British educated) sometimes wonder at what we've put our kids through. Our kids are fine because they've known nothing else.

Your mind is clearly made up, so we wish you luck. Please do have a plan B in place though. Look into the private international schools that are sous contrat and whose fees are therefore cheaper. They can offer a bilingual system that might suit your daughter. Many of the children in my son’s blingual primary then move on to the French system for collège.

Thanks @oriunda 😊

Can she understand the radio?

It might be worth looking on amazon.fr and buying thé study guides for seconde, and possibly from 6ieme to 3ieme for collège. It might be Hachette, can't remember.

As soin as you get to France, head to Cultura and they'll have them. The other thingvthat might help is a holiday club. As you don't have a tax return you're counted as zéro income and the fees are low. It helped dd enormously and they even bought an English dictionary just in case.

Some things are weird. I grew up doing long division in £sd, easy peasy, can dérive thé formulae for mortgage repayments etc etc but, could I follow thé French way? Not a hope in hell!

Once again, good luck!

The study guides have just hit the shops now in France (getting ready for holiday prep/start of new school year). Definitely worth seeing if you can get some as they follow the French curriculum closely.

Thanks both appreciate it. 🙏

Just an update, we've registered my Dd in seconde as advised and got some French text books. She's in internat which she is looking forward too. There's another English pupil starting in the same year. It will be challenging but we will get through it.

Excellent ! It is a three-year Sixth form and seconde is an “exploratory year”.

Good luck!

Good to hear! Being able to look ahead at the textbooks will really help her. I teach histoire/géo in 2nde, feel free to PM if you need any help.

I don't have a child who has been through lycee, but one of my DS's friends, who arrived at an English prep school in September at 7 without any English at all was fairly competent in spoken English by Christmas. Did prep to 13, then one year at a UK public school, when his widowed mum moved to France, where he did two years at international school, and entered his Bac programme in second, and his bac, but he still chose an English university. His other option was Russian and conscription.