Moving to France 🇫🇷

[tukker]

We are packing for the move in August. My daughter is 16 and looking forward to going to the local lycée, we have been in touch with them and they are very relaxed, I've emailed them to confirm dates for inscription in July but no reply?
I love the area we are moving to in Burgundy and we already have a house, so much to do, I just keep getting cold feet about it all! Some days I think its a great idea and other days I'm really anxious. Is this normal?

I am French and went to school in France, and I would also advise for your daughter not to go to première but seconde. She won’t be the only pupil who’s a year older as quite a few pupils repeat the year in France, especially the seconde.

If she goes straight to première, they will be preparing for the French exam of the baccalauréat that pupils sit at the end of première. It is like English literature A Level here and all pupils sit it. The pupils will be sitting mock exams as early as December/January and there is no way your daughter can access it after a few months in France.

Can I ask your daughter’s month and year of birth, to tell you if she would be older or younger for her year. It is not September-August like here. The oldest pupils are born in January and the youngest in December.

One more thing: like someone said, the Sixth form isn’t just première and terminale in France (year 12 and 13). It starts in seconde (year 11). It would therefore be a better idea for her to start in seconde with the other pupils.

I am also wondering if the lycée has ever had non French speakers joining the school. Maybe not if it’s in rural Burgundy. They may have no idea she won’t be able to follow the lessons.

I teach French here and even pupils who achieve an A* at A Level French would really struggle in a French lycée, and even more a pupil who achieved a grade 9 at GCSE.

This all sounds quite positive. If you are going to do it I completely agree on Seconde. Lots of people redouble and she will be better prepared. Out of interest are you French speaking? Can you offer language support at home?

I teach in a French collège-lycée and agree with what everyone above has said. We moved when the DCs were in primary, DH is French, the boys spoke and understood everything but couldn’t read in French, the school said it would be great, they would accommodate and help etc. It’s been a nightmare for the eldest. He started in CE1, aged 6 almost 7. Went from being one of the eldest in his school year to one of the youngest, which meant he started collège aged 10, still supposedly behind. Still with teachers telling us he’d never be good enough in French. We have been lectured non-stop by teachers about how we must stop speaking English to the children. We’re both languages teachers, and can confirm that there is very little understanding of bilingualism in France.

In reality there is no extra support in France. And I say that as a teacher here. Teachers turn up, teach their lesson, and leave. If the child needs extra support that is the parents’ problem. The French education system is a monster in many ways, and it is inflexible and unforgiving. There are no special circumstances. And reports can be harsh. They do not sugar coat the feedback.

Next year we are hosting a girl from Thailand for the year. She is going into première, but, and this is key, she will not be doing the bac as she is going home to Thailand at the end of the year. And we are well aware that we will have to do a huge amount of tutoring for her to help her get through the year.

I would strongly recommend she starts in seconde. There are no exams and it will really reduce the pressure on her. There is a lot of assessment for the bac in première, so she will need to have a sufficient standard for that in all subjects. The spé are meant to be something like coeff 16 (under normal operating), that could have a huge impact on her bac.

Première will be all children born in 2006, regardless of month. But in reality children are moved up or retake very easily here. I have a real mix in my classes. Including a year 9 who started the year aged 10 as he’s been moved up twice, and a boy in the same class who started aged 15, as he’d done the opposite. I have several friends here who retook seconde, it had no impact on what came after.

Are you going to be at the school before 7th July? There will be no teachers there afterwards. Have they told you who will be doing the assessment?

They did mention her starting a year behind so I'm assuming that is seconde, my DD is Feb 2006. I was looking to get her a French tutor also, I don't have much French myself. We are aiming at getting there the 5th July. It will be a challenge! but we know people in the area that can help.

Oh OP without French yourself this is going to be tough. Please at least make sure she's in seconde. With the best will in the world there is only so much that local friends can do. I mean this in the kindest possible way when I say that I think there is an element of naivety on your part. Putting English children into French school and them coming out bilingual in a month is a myth. It's really positive that she's doing extras and is keen but when she hasn't even touched A level it'll be hard. I think the point made by a previous poster about an A star A level student struggling is one to take on board.

2006 would normally be going into première in September, so seconde would be going back a year. In my mind it is the only viable solution an I am amazed the lycée aren't insisting.

Knowing people in the area will be of no help whatsoever when your daughter is sitting her first devoir in histoire two weeks into lycée.

Having had 3 children go through French education (my youngest is currently sitting her bac in Terminale) and I can only repeat what everyone else has said - your daughter must go into Seconde and not Premiere. Whilst her spoken French may be good, the key aspect of doing well in French education is learning the method and she simply will not be able to do that in the year of Premiere, ready to sit the French part of the bac next June - all French students have been immersed this way of learning since the beginning of college. It is very very different from the way of learning in the English educational system. The lycee years are brutal, there is so much work - they are often at school 8.30 through to 17.30 and then expected to do a minimum of 2 hours every evening plus more at the weekend. Every piece of work that is marked counts towards their moyenne/results, there is just no room for any poor performance. All my three gave up their competitive sport when they went to lycee as they just could not find the time to continue with both if they wanted to get good results.

If she goes into seconde she has more of a chance to catch up, but I think you shouldn't underestimate how tough it will be for her, with limited time to enjoy the fun of her new life in France.

I agree with everything that's been said but I would add that at lycée level, even though your DD has chosen options, she will still need to study core subjects. Unlike in the UK, where at A level you only concentrate on your chosen subjects, she will need to carry on with subjects she might otherwise drop (including Maths and Science).

I can only reinforce the point that others have made, which is to start her in Seconde. The system (our DS is in his fifth year of it, having been here since CM1) is relentless. They are measured weekly and are expected to keep up. He comes back shattered at weekends (he's a boarder). And as of next year (last year at collège) they will be rigorously prepped for entry to lycée.

I speak fluent French, having done a degree in it and living and working here. And even I struggled with some of the schoolwork DS had to do when we were doing school from home during lockdown.

We paid for a private tutor for two years, just to get DS through primary school (worth every single cent).

Bon courage !

My Dc are only primary level (eldest starting college in September) and it is SUCH a different experience to schools in England.

Different ways of learning. Different expectations (cursive writing with a fountain pen from age 6, loads of exams (87 in one term for my then 8 year old) and pressure).

The amount of work is huge. Even for bright children it requires a lot of time.

My DC are bilingual from birth and have been in a French school since they were 3. Even now they are weaker in vocabulary in French than their friends cos half their family speak English and half of their reading/watching TV has been in English.

I really wouldn't underestimate the difficulty.

Just to add: I did a degree in French in the UK and moved to France to do a masters at a business school.

The first term was so incredibly difficult. Because not only was everything in French, but it was all totally new concepts for me (finance, marketing, legal, strategy etc). The first 2 week holiday was in October- everyone went away. I spent 6-8 hours a day going back over all the topics with a dictionary by my side trying to understand the subjects.

Your Dd will be learning new subjects all in a foreign language. That is hard.

Gosh I really hope she is ok
What about an international school?

"France is full of people like them, not people like us" --- friends who moved to France hoping for a Rural life and it wasn't as wholesome as they hoped

Also it's not scaremongering

It's not scaremongering. It's realistic.

You have some rather pie in the sky ideas and I'd reconsider what's best for your daughter.

If you don't know about coefficients you and your DD will need to get you head around then very soon. All subjects are far from equal in France. For example there is no English exam it's just a control continu.

For exams

She will do French in premiere, oral and written.

In terminale 2 x specialities (coeff16) , philo, grande orale.

Contrôle continue is 40% and exams 60%.

Sorry unreadable gère is the link.

www.letudiant.fr/bac/comment-serez-vous-note-au-bac-2022-et-au-bac-2023-1.html

How are you communicating with the school if you don't speak French?

One of our French DC has got to the end of seconde and is having to move schools because she's not doing well enough and won't be suitable for a Bac Générale.

We looked at having a tutor to help her. He estimated she'd need to read, absorb and understand 400 books just to get up to an acceptable level for French and culture générale.

That sounds like an absolute mountain. I hope she gets on okay OP

I can only reiterate what everyone else has said. My son is just finishing première. It is a very, very hard year of school. Long hours and many tests. Many French children struggle. Don't forget she will be doing all compulsory and chosen subjects in French. History-Geograohy, Science, a second language in addition to English, moral and civic education. It sounds obvious but people forget it isn't just French lessons. She will be take written and oral bac exams in French at the end of the year, and then in terminal will have to take compulsory philosophy in place of French. Her French will not be good enough no matter how enthusiastic, intelligent or hard working she is. No reflection on your daughter , not scaremongering, just reality

I think your daughter sounds brilliant and fierce. I hope you both arent in for a bit of a reality check though.
I think following the advice of people who have been through the system is really important though. At least dont dismiss it.
Some places will be more used to international children than others. There are facebook groups for people moving to france with children.
I think the option in france to repeat a year is a benefit you shouldnt overlook. Encourage your daughter to use that advantage to give herself the best chance of being successful in her ambition.
You need to manage her expectations and keep her grounded, whilst obviously not discouraging her spirit

While it's great that you are all looking forward to it and that your daughter is enthusiastic, it really is not scaremongering to say you need to go into this with your eyes open. My kids were in the French system from the age of two and I can assure you, you have missed the best years (such as they are). Maternelle and primary can be absolutely lovely, college onwards is absolutely brutal and lycée even more so. It's not only the amount of knowledge they are expected to absorb, nor the breadth of subjects they are expected to cover it's also the style of teaching which can be best summed up as all stick and no carrot. I think the early years in the system are preparation for what lies ahead - you need to imagine going from a lovely, encouraging, nurturing English school where everyone is praised for doing their best into a system where a teacher wouldn't think twice about awarding 0 and ripping up your work in front of you. And no French person would find anything odd in that (nor would either of my children having known no other system). French education is one size fits all. My DH used to say the school motto should FIFO (fit in or f* off). I love the idea that you think the lycée is relaxed - I have no doubt that this is because they won't be putting themselves out one iota to accommodate your daughter's needs. You should read and absorb every single comment on here from parents who have had children in French schools - none of them is exaggerating. Dropping back a year into seconde would be a start, but it will be uphill all the way even with this concession. Lycée is not fun and no-one expects it to be. I would start by managing expectation and then hope it is not as bad as you imagined.

@LillianGish

If Heineken did posts summarising the French education system....

Note to self, write out one hundred times: Carlsberg

I went through the secondary French system. It’s archaic, unforgiving, elitist, rigid… I could go on. I would never put my own children through it.

There does seem to be a certain amount of "the most horrible experience in French schools" going on here :-)

I've got one in terminale and one in seconde right now and they've both been fine. It's a lot better than the collège years and a lot more interesting than A levels were for me.

Also if either of them does more than 2 hours homework a week I'd be surprised!

No experience of school, following for interest. I did go to a French Uni and I was scared of all my teachers!