EU residents, will you send your DC to UK universities? For science based courses in particular

[Melassa]

We had a talk with DD’s school, she is in the equivalent of year 12 so will need to evaluate uni options soon. UK universities as a foreign student is going to cost from €25-40K per year depending on course, pretty much on a par with US Ivy League. DD is an EU citizen and can go to uni in the EU for a lot less - most courses are around €2K a year in fees. Lots of courses are taught in English if DD doesn’t want to stay in her home country, or she can study in Dublin.

The other issue is, will UK university qualifications have any value, now that equivalence is lost? She wants to do something quite specialised which has its specific qualification but if it’s not going to be recognised outside the UK then it would be a bit pointless and create extra cost and hassle for accessing postgrad courses in the EU.

Has anyone had recent experience, or wondering the same?

A huge number of kids at DS's lycée are going to the Netherlands. The school is still running it's UK universities information programs but getting about a tenth of the interest.

DS is going to Holland after having wanted to go to UK.

Double whammy of fees and equivalence plus perception of foreigners not being welcome.

Also the Dutch are doing an excellent job of marketing, as are some Italian, Spanish and German universities.

DH’s relatives are all EU citizens/residents. His oldest niece is in her final year at a UK university. Her 16 year old sister had planned to follow, but is now planning to stay in the EU - probably her home country, or another one that speaks the same language. Her parents could afford British fees, but why pay 10x more than you have to? The anti-foreigner sentiment that DiDonk mentions is also a factor.

I’ve heard other EU friends and family say similarly.

Just an FYI, Ivy league's are running at about $80000 per year now, including mandatory accommodation and meal plans, and are four year courses for undergraduates.
We're in the US and considering UK universities as they are still cheaper, even as an overseas student!

Yes, DD was considering the Netherlands, but as part of her course involves a placement (and possibly clinical experience, depending on what she chooses) I was wondering if it would be better to go to Ireland, as she doesn’t speak Dutch. Alas nowhere else in Europe speaks Italian and DD doesn’t want to stay here to study.

DD’s school also pushes UK universities, but last year applications were down by 40% with the slack picked up by the US (oddly enough), local universities and the rest of the EU.

Interesting re the US fees @BackToWhereItAllBegan, the school was still pricing Ivy League at €40K tops (maybe that was just fees and nothing else though?). They do help with applying for bursaries or scholarships or whatever, plus everyone seems to apply really early and get in as an early decision, I don’t know if that makes a difference? In any case the US is out of the reckoning for the moment, but anything could change!

YY to the anti foreigner sentiment, DD speaks English without an accent but she would need to apply for a visa as not a British citizen. And that really sticks in my craw

If you are British and living in the EU, why would she have to pay overseas fees? The home fees rules still hold for quite a few years, if I am not wrong until 2027 or so?

Was going to. Definitely not now.

Because she doesn’t have British citizenship. I couldn’t pass it on as born abroad. It wasn’t an issue when she was born.

I don’t think she needs to have British citizenship if you do.

Home fees for UK universities are still higher than what we pay in the EU, and if the qualification is worthless at the end why pay more?

@CatherinedeBourgh

I don’t think she needs to have British citizenship if you do.

Oh really? Interesting.

Still in doubt about the equivalence factor though. Would it be a sound investment?

UK nationals living in the EEA, Switzerland and EU Overseas Territories
UK nationals and their family members living in the EEA or Switzerland on 31 December 2020 will generally be eligible for home fee status, tuition fee and maintenance support from Student Finance England for courses starting on or after 1 August 2021 and before 1 January 2028 if they meet the following conditions:
UK nationals and their family members living in the EU Overseas Territories on 31 December 2020 will continue to be eligible for home fee status in England for courses starting before 1 January 2028

from here

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009789/EU_Exit_Student_Finance_Policy_-_Aug_21.pdf

In the end it’s about what they want to do. Mine love the idea of going to university in the UK, even though they’ve never lived there.

They are not planning specific qualifications though, so that part is not a consideration.

I will help if they are interested in and get into Oxbridge but otherwise there are better options on the continent, perhaps with a master’s/MPhil in the UK.

Im an eu citizen living in the UK. My dc have dual eu and British citizenship. They are still a few years off uni but I've already explained we won't be able to finance a UK degree fully, so if they want to leave uni without massive loans then studying abroad should be something they consider.

In terms of Professional body equivalence it would depend on the specific body, but in terms of 'prestige' of degree, the UK leaving the EU makes no difference.

I'd actually also be surprised if any UK professional or statutory bodies were no longer recognised as equivalent within the EU (and elsewhere).

Can understand the anti-Europe worry, but within a uni setting students very unlikely to experience it.

The number of non-EU applicants to UK universities increased last year incidentally.

@CliveThighs

Im an eu citizen living in the UK. My dc have dual eu and British citizenship. They are still a few years off uni but I've already explained we won't be able to finance a UK degree fully, so if they want to leave uni without massive loans then studying abroad should be something they consider.

If they're due to start in 2027/28 or earlier they'll be entitled to UK fees and loans if UK nationals. Pp posted the relevant link.

If she can get into one of the top UK unis for science then it might be worth it. It would give her enormous opportunities in the long term.

Thanks for the info @CatherinedeBourgh, I hadn’t realised. Food for thought. DD is an Anglophile so likes the idea of studying in the U.K, plus she has lots of cousins there, but the issue of the equivalence is a problem.

I was thinking the same about Oxbridge @Footnote, I would consider that more of an investment, but for everything else in terms of value for money I would prefer to stay in the EU.

Yes, the huge student debt would worry me too, plus the lack of Erasmus. A further consideration is the brain drain in science and research, I don’t know how much that has impacted universities on the whole, but I know of a few people who have followed the EU funding and moved their research out of the U.K.

@Melassa Early action applications would make no difference to the fees, just gives a slightly better chance of acceptance and you can only apply to one university using early action.
The US fees you are being quoted will be tuition only, usually around $55,000, then you have to add in the mandatory text books, room and board of $20-25,000 (but they do get a lot of food for that!)
Ivy League schools are 'needs blind' when it comes to applications so you can apply for financial aid after a place has been offered if necessary but I don't believe the Ivies give out academic scholarships (this may vary for international students so your current school can offer the best advice on that)

A further consideration is the brain drain in science and research, I don’t know how much that has impacted universities on the whole, but I know of a few people who have followed the EU funding and moved their research out of the U.K.

Why is that a concern? UK unis have more top globally than any other country in the EU - look at the international league tables. That hasn't changed. A STEM PHD from a globally top 200 will have currently throughout the world. A few EU academics may have moved back, and of course we want Horizon membership of some sort, but there has been no mass exodus and funding is stable. And plentiful

After much discussion, mine plans to stay in the EU for Uni. We did look at English speaking courses in NL. At the end of the day, the cost in the UK does not seem worth it unless talking Oxbridge. Plus from here the country doesn't seem to be in great state either - difficulties in getting a dentist and GP, awful employment practices and the rental housing market. As she ultimately wants to teach, a UK degree would be no used to her unless she planned to move back their full time, which is not one of her options at the moment. Tuition fees at local unis are under 1000 euro per year.

Erasmus is another issue.

@titchy

A further consideration is the brain drain in science and research, I don’t know how much that has impacted universities on the whole, but I know of a few people who have followed the EU funding and moved their research out of the U.K.

Why is that a concern? UK unis have more top globally than any other country in the EU - look at the international league tables. That hasn't changed. A STEM PHD from a globally top 200 will have currently throughout the world. A few EU academics may have moved back, and of course we want Horizon membership of some sort, but there has been no mass exodus and funding is stable. And plentiful

This was a concern as in the last few years I have heard of a few of projects where EU funding had ended and was not being renewed and the (mainly British) academics moved to the EU in order to continue with their research. As I said, I didn’t know how much this affected universities. Maybe at phd level but not undergrad? In any case that is the least of my concerns, for me it is mainly cost and equivalence (and thus value for money), with lack of Erasmus etc. as icing on the cake.

Thanks for everyone’s comments, you’ve pretty much confirmed what I’ve been thinking.

It is a shame as I think the U.K. university experience is great, but all the issues highlighted on the thread very much stack against it nowadays. Maybe for a postgrad in a few years time, but not for an undergrad.