EU residents, will you send your DC to UK universities? For science based courses in particular

[Melassa]

We had a talk with DD’s school, she is in the equivalent of year 12 so will need to evaluate uni options soon. UK universities as a foreign student is going to cost from €25-40K per year depending on course, pretty much on a par with US Ivy League. DD is an EU citizen and can go to uni in the EU for a lot less - most courses are around €2K a year in fees. Lots of courses are taught in English if DD doesn’t want to stay in her home country, or she can study in Dublin.

The other issue is, will UK university qualifications have any value, now that equivalence is lost? She wants to do something quite specialised which has its specific qualification but if it’s not going to be recognised outside the UK then it would be a bit pointless and create extra cost and hassle for accessing postgrad courses in the EU.

Has anyone had recent experience, or wondering the same?

pretty much on a par with US Ivy League

Still massively cheaper than US Ivy Leagues - especially when you take travel costs into account. And many parents do not want their 18 year old in another continent. Different for post grad.

Depends on the University. A maths degree from a Russell Group University will not lose its cachet. A degree in Media Studies from a new University has always been of dubious value.

I think the downside of the Netherlands is their policy of accepting pretty much everybody who applies and then ruthlessly weeding them out as they fail the exams. There is a huge percentage who never complete the course. Also I understand that social life can be limited to other international students. Dutch students speak English but they revert to Dutch when out socially so for non Ditch speakers it is just easier to stay in their English speaking bubbles.

Yes, I’m not keen on sending DD to the US, I was just citing it as it had been communicated in the last parents call with the school. It was more a “I was shocked it was so expensive in the U.K.” reaction.

I’m also a bit dubious about NL, but DD is quite set on it and seems to think she will easily learn Dutch (which I’m even more dubious about). From experience DD will gravitate towards other international students. I already wasted a fair amount of cash sending her on language study leave abroad only for her to hang out with the English speaking international students and none of the locals. 😬

Most continental unis do the brutal weeding out after the first year or so, although for some courses, like medicine, there are now extra entry tests (at Italian universities anyway) so there is some weeding out beforehand.

The trouble is that most of the English speaking courses in non English speaking EU countries appear to be arts or social sciences, or business or design, when you move onto STEM the choice decreases and seem to be centred around technology. Perhaps this year the choice will have widened a bit more. I need to do a bit more research into this.

Or else she’ll need to go to Ireland.

I haven't had a reason to look into science based programmes, and I am not sure what exactly your DD wants to study, but you could also look at Swedish universities perhaps? I know Chalmers in Gothenburg and KTH in Stockholm are very popular. I believe they both teach in English, at least Chalmers as I know someone from the UK who went there and she did not speak Swedish. At least not to begin with.

Oh sorry, just saw that it should not be technology based, the two uni's I mentioned are both that.

I think the competition to get into unis in the uk will be greater. My friend is an overseas recruiter for a uni and was really concerned about how Brexit would affect the numbers. To his relief they can't keep up with overseas demand.

Just to highlight that Wales is launching a replacement Erasmus mobility programme that will start from the academic year 2022-23. Obviously it is smaller scale but is reciprocal, unlike the U.K. Government Turing scheme, so it will support partnerships and exchanges that were previously funded through Erasmus.

What about Swiss universities?

Swiss universities are a bit more expensive, however there are a couple in the Italian speaking part that are just over the border from us (about 45 minutes on the train). I will need to look into it as for the more intense placement years she will probably need to live out and even if she chose somewhere just over Italian side it does tend to be pricier than further in. I will look into though, I’d not really considered Switzerland, thanks

I'm also in Italy and DD has dual citizenship so has applied to both UK and EU universities as she falls into the Brit abroad criteria for home fees in the UK.

She's also applied to a couple of Irish universities, Malmö and Gothenburg (courses she's interested in taught in English) and Maastricht.

It's worth her doing loads of research into everything (not least student satisfaction)

@Geamhradh, interesting, how many has your DD applied for? I need to look into the application process more closely too, the U.K. has UCAS, Ireland has CAO, but for the rest of Europe you need to apply to each individually it seems.

I need to make an appointment with the university person at her school. Not least because DD is now thinking of opting for medicine as it will open up more opportunities for postgrad, so the options have narrowed noticeably. Alas DD gets fixated on one thing (at present university in the Netherlands) and won’t budge or entertain other options, especially if I dare mention anything.

I got an email from the university of Bristol touting scholarships for international students but I’ve not got around to reading the small print. The cost of courses was eye watering though, especially anything scientific.

This whole conversation makes me sad.

Brexit is making the UK feel really insular. We’re losing out on talented people first wanting to study and then stay within the UK.

@Gardenfish

This whole conversation makes me sad.

Brexit is making the UK feel really insular. We’re losing out on talented people first wanting to study and then stay within the UK.

I agree, it’s such a shame. But the other side of the coin is that my DD at least has access to education in 27 countries but her cousins don’t even get to experience Erasmus. Even getting a summer bar job in the EU is not as easy as in my day. Such a lost opportunity for widening horizons.

@Melassa totally agree with your last statement. That's one of the main reasons why I voted remain. My daughter won't get the same level of mobility I've had.

[quote Melassa]@Geamhradh, interesting, how many has your DD applied for? I need to look into the application process more closely too, the U.K. has UCAS, Ireland has CAO, but for the rest of Europe you need to apply to each individually it seems.

I need to make an appointment with the university person at her school. Not least because DD is now thinking of opting for medicine as it will open up more opportunities for postgrad, so the options have narrowed noticeably. Alas DD gets fixated on one thing (at present university in the Netherlands) and won’t budge or entertain other options, especially if I dare mention anything.

I got an email from the university of Bristol touting scholarships for international students but I’ve not got around to reading the small print. The cost of courses was eye watering though, especially anything scientific.[/quote]
I'm losing count!

UCAS she applied to 5. Rejected from Cambridge at interview stage, is holding an offer from Lancaster and waiting on the other 3.
She applied via the CAO interface for Ireland, and you can apply for 10, so she did.
She hasn't applied to the others yet, as either admissions aren't yet open, or she'll be applying in their second round as it were. The ones I mentioned upthread are imminent- then she's doing an online Open day with Sciences Po next weekend, and events with Pisa and Trento here. Probably also Bologna will be on the list. Pisa she'll have to sit the TOLC-SU entrance test, which people do all year round- one of my own students has already passed it, but my high flyer from last year who is now there only sat the test in September and started in October.

Agree with other comments about mobility. We were looking at Brexit in class the other day and from my own position of privilege of having a foot in the EU and in the UK, it's sad that so many of these kids who would have gone to uni in the UK, now won't.
She is pretty convinced about the UK, but I keep telling her I want her to have a full menu to choose from come the day.

Just to add that the information above about citizenship is incorrect. You have it right OP - if you're born abroad as a UK citizen, you lose the right to pass on your UK citizenship. There are a few exceptions - kids of diplomats for example....

Anecdotally, I live in Belgium and was talking to a friend whose kids are in the English section of the European school (school for kids of EU civil servants). She said most kids were applying to Ireland and the Netherlands. Very few were entertaining the thought of UK universities. There are also a fair few unis here in Belgium that teach their courses in English - might be worth investigating?

Gosh @Geamhradh that’s a lot of applications and sounds really quite exhausting. However long did it take you DD to apply for them all?

I’d quite like Bologna university but my DD is hellbent on leaving Italy to study. She’s not wrong for work opportunities but for the quality of study I think she could do a lot worse. Also, if she does decide to do medicine Emilia Romagna is a region with well structured hospitals, unlike Lombardia which is overloaded and, in my view, badly organised at a structural level. Although the best hospitals are often in Milan I suppose. With Bologna she can live away from home without the exorbitant costs of Northern European cities too.

@amyboo, I did look at a couple of courses un BE, I think one was Ghent? But they didn’t offer what DD wanted unless you could speak Flemish. Or even French. She does know some French and Spanish but not at a level sufficient for study at university level.

I’ve made an appointment with the university guy next week. I know it’s early days but I need to know all the options before we get to the final year and frantic applying. Not least for student finance!

@Melassa

Yes, DD was considering the Netherlands, but as part of her course involves a placement (and possibly clinical experience, depending on what she chooses) I was wondering if it would be better to go to Ireland, as she doesn’t speak Dutch. Alas nowhere else in Europe speaks Italian and DD doesn’t want to stay here to study.

DD’s school also pushes UK universities, but last year applications were down by 40% with the slack picked up by the US (oddly enough), local universities and the rest of the EU.

Interesting re the US fees @BackToWhereItAllBegan, the school was still pricing Ivy League at €40K tops (maybe that was just fees and nothing else though?). They do help with applying for bursaries or scholarships or whatever, plus everyone seems to apply really early and get in as an early decision, I don’t know if that makes a difference? In any case the US is out of the reckoning for the moment, but anything could change!

Switzerland has an Italian University. Fees are very low. EU students welcome. Downside is there are specific entry requirements. What qualifications is she studying? IB or A levels or other?

She’s doing IB. Is it in Lugano? If so handy for us on the train, but if she does opt for medicine there’s a Swiss residency requirement I believe?

The ironic thing is that it would be easier to get in with an Italian qualification, I moved her out of the Italian system after middle school as she was deeply unhappy.

Yes it is in Lugano. It is very difficult for even the Swiss to get into Swiss medical school. As well as the High school qualification, a Swiss Matura, they need to pass the entry test called the Numerus Clausus. It is a non starter for you in Lugano because the medicine bachelor course is run with Unibas (Basel University) and is in German. But other subjects are possible eg architecture
www.biomed.usi.ch/en/study/study-medicine/bachelor-of-medicine

For entry requirements with the IB to Swiss Uni you need a minimum number of points. Usually 32 up to 38, excluding the 3 points for ToK and Extended essay. One science or maths needs to be at HL. Certain subjects eg drama are not recognised. This will tell you more, it is in English. www.swissuniversities.ch/en/topics/studying/admission-to-universities/international-baccalaureate

That’s a shame about medicine at Lugano. Grades wise she’s achieving a 6 in most subjects so a 35 should be easily achievable, hopefully by next year she can nudge it to nearer 40 plus the TOK.

It’s pretty much the case everywhere that doesn’t have English or Italian native tongue, DD is really narrowing her choices with medicine, although I can understand it opening up more options at postgrad.

I suppose she could go back to her original plan which was more biomedical sciences/biochemistry based, as there are more courses. It’s now her plan B. Still, there is time for her to change her mind yet again.

It’s all quite exhausting. Even with the option of U.K. universities. I will look into Ireland more, I’d focussed on Trinity but there may be other universities more suited. She doesn’t really want to go to Ireland for some strange reason, but again, plenty of time to change her mind!

Wales has just formally launched its new international learning exchange programme - www.Taith.wales

This will, in effect, replace Erasmus for Wales and enable Wales to maintain the connections built through Erasmus and develop new ones.

I work in third level sector in Ireland there are a number of changes due to Brexit in recognition of both academic and professional body qualifications. Already there are issues for gas fitters/electricians qualified post brexit and in the coming years we have been advised there will be more. Academic recognition within EU will remain transparent - UK will become challenging as EU countries adopt new regulations/legislation etc. I would be of the opinion study within EU will become more favourable for EU citizens due to cost and widen potential work opportunities.

We're in Germany where university is pretty close to being free, and I must say I don't understand why anyone with the right to access free, high quality universities here would encourage their child to go to a UK university unless they only speak English, or had so much money that paying fees upfront was a complete non issue.

We live in Luxembourg. My daughter went to a UK Uni just before Brexit. She enjoyed it but the but was that she thought she was half English. She got a shock when she found out she wasn’t as she was educated in the Luxembourg system and was really more Luxembourgish than anything.
So if your child wants to go to the UK as they think they are British, maybe they will find they are not.

No. Far cheaper elsewhere in the EU