Really need opinions... US vs UK

[otterbaby]

Hi all, I would really value some unbiased opinions please! It's a bit of a long read but any advice would be most appreciated.

I am originally from California and my husband is from England. I moved here 7 years ago, we've been married for 6 years and we have a 6 month old baby. We have built a life here - own a house, both have decent jobs, cars nearly paid off. However I don't like the area that we live in - high rates of crime, racism, poverty etc. There are some good things about the area but for the most part, I don't feel like it's a very safe place to live and would move in a heartbeat. It's worth noting that my husband was born and raised here, he definitely agrees but has a fondness for the area (obviously!).

It was always the deal that we would move back to California eventually. I am very close with my family back home and that is a big part of my desire to return. My parents are wonderful - unfortunately they haven't had the chance to meet my baby yet, but they are so doting and loving to her. I grew up with a very close relationship to my grandparents and it really shaped who I am as a person. I want her to have that experience as well. She also has an uncle there who I want her to know (my brother). My husband's family is very different - he and his his sister are not on speaking terms (and no chance of reconciliation ever) and his parents have a bit of a toxic relationship. I could write a whole thread on this but to sum it up, he very nearly cut them off entirely about a year ago. I also don't trust them fully with my baby - his mum is a bit aggressive with her (bopping her in the face with toys, shaking her arm/hand very roughly, shouting in her face when crying) so they will never watch her unsupervised. I do know that we could fully trust my parents to watch her on various occasions (date nights and such) and my husband agrees with this.

Moving back does mean starting over in some regards. We would live with my parents for a few months until we found jobs and a place to live. It would also mean renting for a few years until my husband builds up enough credit for us to get on the property ladder - and of course housing prices will be much much higher than they are in our current area. But realistically, within a few years it is very likely that we'll be back to where we are right now in terms of house, cars, jobs etc. My husband is very worried about all of this - he is 35 and is worried about finding a job in his trade. His job is very in demand in California and highly paid. My dad works for the government and ran his CV past a hiring manager who said that he would have no issues whatsoever landing a position with his experience. I do understand his anxiety about it though!

I really feel as though our daughter having a relationship with her grandparents outweighs all of the above concerns. Our other concern is healthcare, but I worked in California prior to moving here and it's not too bad if you find a position with decent insurance (£20 co-pays for appointments and prescriptions). I don't think we'll have another child so that's not a concern either. And holidays - we'll probably get 2-3 weeks and be able to visit many areas in California and surrounding states, but Europe is pretty much out of bounds unless we're going away for a good week or two. But we would be living so close to the beach, San Francisco, Napa, Tahoe, etc. And only a short flight to places like Hawaii, San Diego, etc.

My husband is pretty much 50/50 - and our marriage wouldn't suffer if we decided to move, so please don't factor that into your opinion. He just wants what is best for our daughter. Like I say, I understand his concerns but I also don't know if I'm looking at this with rose-tinted glasses because I want to go back. If we stayed here, we would move but still be in the same area due to our jobs so not much can be done about that.

Please, give me your brutally honest opinions. I'd love to know if I'm really off the mark. We have submitted a visa to go back but it's only the first step and we could be waiting a year or more before we hear back.

Thank you

But the US is in another whole class of insanity.

If you follow certain online websites - it has a population of 300 Million - you think this applies to everyone of them??? be sensible

@otterbaby Hi from Nor Cal!

C'mon home! But if you're planning to buy right away, one thing to remember is that home prices here are really high nowadays, even in traditionally 'cheaper' areas AND inventory is way down. And rents are high too.

As far as health insurance, if you don't get jobs right away with good healthcare, check out the Covered CA website for yourself and DD (assuming you got a US passport and/or US citizen born abroad BC for her). Your DH probably wouldn't qualify without a green card. My son has gotten good and reasonable health insurance a couple of times when he's been between jobs.

I now don't understand how people get by in the UK, in places like London as the wages just do not match the cost of living. At least in CA most jobs are a lot better paid than in the UK.

@greengrassapreciationsociety

At first I thought - this can't be right. But then I checked and it turns out that is correct.

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median wage for a full time worker in California is $1,063 (£768) a week whereas the median wage for the same worker in the UK according to the ONS is only £586 ($810). So, the median Californian earns £182 ($253) more per week than the same British worker.

There are similar differences with household income as well.

But, it can be really really expensive in some parts of California.

There's a very useful cost of living comparison calculator here:-

www.epi.org/resources/budget/

EPI’s Family Budget Calculator measures the income a family needs in order to attain a modest yet adequate standard of living. The budgets estimate community-specific costs for 10 family types (one or two adults with zero to four children) in all counties and metro areas in the United States.

So, for example, it says that in the SF metro area that a family of four will need a household income of $148k (£107k) to live, but in somewhere like Fresno it is only $73k (£53k).

To me it’s not about US vs UK, both have their pros and both have their cons. It’s about fairness in your relationship.

You agreed to come here, you’ve been here for 7 years, the deal was you’d go back to California one day. He doesn’t get to renege on that deal for a reason like being scared to start over. If you’d felt that way you’d have stayed in the US! If he had a real reason like he wouldn’t get a decent job in the US then fair enough but that’s not the case.

Now seems like the perfect time to me - as DD is little you don’t have schools to worry about, grandparent help will be really valuable, and if it doesn’t work out you have time to come back to the UK before your DD is entrenched in school there.

I say do it. You can always come back if it isn’t working after say 2-3 years. Maybe rent out your place here rather than selling, at least at first?

otter, I have to say the only time I have bene unsettled was when a parent was aging and got sick and then I did question what we were doing here. If your parents are here and will be involved I would move here-honestly some people have a hysterical reaction to the US in England, when it is as big as Europe. CA is a very progressive state with strict gun laws. If you can afford to live in a good neighborhood, you will probably feel safer than in the UK- that is how we feel. If my parents were over here I would not hesitate. There is no way we would enjoy the quality of life in London that we have here, litter free local parks everywhere, sport is more inclusive for kids, schools I find just as good and frankly I appreciate the lack of testing pressure put on kids here. Cal State is less expensive than UK universities.Health insurance is the big one to consider and I would say if you are in an expensive city expect to pay 3500-4500$ a month to rent a family home near good schools and yes things are more expensive but the wages are just way higher for most jobs.

...honestly some people have a hysterical reaction to the US in England, when it is as big as Europe.

This, with bells on.

Many, many bells...

@mathanxiety

...honestly some people have a hysterical reaction to the US in England, when it is as big as Europe.

This, with bells on.

Many, many bells...

I agree!

I think when you live 3000 miles away it's easy to see that foreign, faraway place as dangerous and scary and full of crazy people. So you see school shootings and George Floyd and the craziness of Trump and you think 'that's what America is like', but for many, many people it really isn't. Our life there was very similar to our life in the UK. The people we know mostly want gun control, are the opposite of racist and wouldn't vote for Trump in a million years. America is so many things, it's a shame that so many people just seem to hate it on principle, but hey, keeps the flights emptier for those of us who DO want to visit. I'm starting to feel excited that our trip in August is looking more and more likely

@mathanxiety

It's uni fees (have you SEEN how much it costs to send a child to college these days in the US???),

Nobody pays the sticker price for US universities. Private universities often offer far better financial aid than state universities, but many state universities have realised they are losing talent to private universities and offer very competitive prices, or free rides.

Absolutely! I agree.

I have a 20-year-old daughter who is at university right now.
She was accepted into many prestigious universities out of our home state of Texas but the money simply didn't make sense.

She took those acceptance letters to our local university, University of Houston, and she managed to get a "full-ride" scholarship for all four years of her undergraduate studies and was accepted into their honors program. This includes absolutely everything: tuition, private room & board, books, lab fees, parking and a $6,000 a year grant, every year of her studies.

My son is studying for a degree in Nursing, which is offered at the local community college (LVN) so it's not very much money at $3000, which he got a grant to attend. He is getting the remainder of his BSN at Texas Tech and he will qualify for a full grant.

It's totally possible to receive education at reasonable costs.

I'm from CA.
It's not healthcare I'd be worried about, it's flipping house prices.
Sounds like you'd be in Bay Area.
Flipping house prices.

I dunno enough about university costs. Most my contacts, their young adult DC won't go to Uni. My cousin has tuition=$38k/yr for a Uni none of you heard of. My relatives tend to be bursing with pride that their child will have a uni degree. My nephew is on needs blind set up at Ivy League but I think my parents are paying for most of his comfortable things like flights or meals out. Plenty of my friends have adult kids who never went to Uni coz they felt they could never afford it or at least couldn't stomach the debt burden. 1 cousin has 2 sons who went into military afaik so they have option of GI bill to fund uni degrees later. You never lose American university debts, they follow you for life or paid off.

I live in CA (after 4 years in NYC) and my quality of life is far better than it was in the UK. These days most jobs are flexible and allow plenty of PTO and employer paid health insurance doesn’t have to be that expensive especially in CA where there is Kaiser (no copays etc). The facilities and extra curricular as at our local schools blow me away, our local high school has activities I have never even heard of! I also feel extremely safe in the area I live in even though it is in the LA area. The lack of cold weather makes doing stuff year round so much easier and we can drive to ski, to the desert, to amazing national parks. People around me are very liberal and tolerant. I probably live in a bit or a bubble but California isn’t the giant overpriced shithole so many people want to make it out to be! I could never move back to the UK at this point, it would be a big downgrade in my quality of life. Maybe there are some higher costs (my kids are older so I don’t need childcare etc so I am not sure about that part) and obviously housing is expensive but it is worth it to me.