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Possible move to the US - with teens / preteens. Would you?

79 replies

TheExtraGuineaPig · 01/12/2017 09:21

DH has been asked to think about whether he would consider a move to the US (California - silicon valley) in the next few years. Our kids are 10 and 7 now so they would be about 13 and 10 when a possible move would take place. What do you think? We have lived overseas before when they were very small but I had mentally committed to them staying in school in the UK from now on. I am worried about the effects for them socially of course but really have no idea how bad/ even possible it would be for them to move with regards their education and exams.

Any advice or experience gratefully received!

OP posts:
pallisers · 07/12/2017 23:51

I have 3 older teens in the US.

With regard to education, it is different - not worse or better, just different. It is probably more like the Irish system in that all subjects are taught/required until end of high school - english, language, math, sciences etc. Maybe Scottish system is more like that.

Your 13 year old would be starting middle school most likely. Good because it is a new start for most kids. Harder because middle school is hard.

Your 10 year old would be in elementary school - probably a lot easier transition.

If you are in school districts around silicon valley, the schools will be full of eager parents highly ambitious for their kids educationally/ musically/sportswise etc. The schools provide a great community too.

If you stay in the US, you need to think about the cost of university. It ain't pretty.

My own experience of my children in both public and various private schools in the US is that the quality of education is excellent. They are particularly good at teaching research/analytical skills/team work.

Don't understand the first and second degree comment at all??

OlennasWimple · 08/12/2017 00:20

Rainbow - my experience has been that my 13yo DC has learnt broadly the same in the US as his cousins and friends back in the UK. The notable differences are things like languages (he is doing Spanish, they are doing German); history (it's mostly American history at the moment, with some Egyptians thrown in - I don't think many UK schools teach much about the Pilgrim Fathers); and some of the techniques in maths are different, whilst the algebra my DC is doing is far more advanced than his peers in the UK but he hasn't done as much with fractions as the UK curriculum covers.

Some school districts will have gifted / able programs which push children on through the US curriculum at an accelerated pace (hence 16 year olds going to college not being completely unheard of), which can lead to US kids overtaking their UK peers if they keep going at the faster pace.

Rainbowandraindrops67 · 08/12/2017 00:24

Olennas it’s just a fact the school years are longer in the us - the uk compresses more into less years.

It’s nothing to do with the schools - there’s obviously good schools in both countries. But a 16 year coming back to the uk from the us system will be behind to the uk system

OrangeJulius · 08/12/2017 00:41

My family moved to California when my two sisters were 13 (not from the UK). They started middle school in Sept as part of the new incoming class and settled in nicely. Its 17 years later and they are both still happy in California. They did fine educationally and both went to a University of California.

Just keep in mind that if you stay in California until your kids are in uni/starting an adult life, they might never come back to the UK.

I also don't understand Rainbow's two degrees comment?

pallisers · 08/12/2017 01:04

But a 16 year coming back to the uk from the us system will be behind to the uk system

In what way? In analytical skills? In knowledge of what? I don't understand this to be honest. I have a 16 year old in the US system - she couldn't fit in comfortably in the UK system because it seems to specialise after GSCEs - something a lot of other country's school systems don't do. But she would not be behind in any way - she would have studied honors chemistry, physics, biology, english lit, history, math (pre-calc by age 16 having completed algebra I and II) and modern language to high level - and possibly latin, greek and another language (all from my children's experience). In what way would they be behind in the UK educational system?

BeALert · 08/12/2017 01:06

As an example of the differences between school systems my DD age 16 will start studying Biology next year for the first time. This year she is studying Physics. Last year she did Chemistry.

In the UK she'd have started the subjects earlier and spent several years studying them if she planned to take them at GCSE.

In the US at high school especially they study fewer subjects each year, in more depth.

Rainbowandraindrops67 · 08/12/2017 01:07

In the us you have to do a more general first college degree and then often a second more specialised one whereas in uk most people only do one

I’ve said many times - it’s because the uk school system is shorter in years than the us so more is crammed in per year. Not saying which is better in terms of final outcome though! Just that in the us the education stays generalised for much longer hence they do more years (typically to 25 whereas most uk leave at 21)

Rainbowandraindrops67 · 08/12/2017 01:09

Really not saying that the uk or us system is better - just that it’s harder to go from the us to uk than it is in return

pallisers · 08/12/2017 01:12

Yes they take sciences one subject at a time in depth - they cover all of the material (although most schools I know start with bio for some reason). That is hard to get used to but they learn the same stuff - just one year at a time.

Plus my kids had a fair bit of science in middle school - including bio/chem/physics. Their high school years weren't their first introduction to these subjects.

I get the impression that at 16 at kid in the UK could decide not to do any science at all -because she would be beyond gsces. that isn't possible in the US for most school districts.

pallisers · 08/12/2017 01:16

Really not saying that the uk or us system is better - just that it’s harder to go from the us to uk than it is in return

Well you said that going back "they'd be way too far behind" which implies you think the UK system is in front/better.

I actually think the opposite - just in terms of movement not better/worse. It would be very hard to go from GSCEs to the high school system where you are expected to take everything, including science, language etc.to age 18. DH has work colleagues who considered coming here with a kid half-way through GSCEs and I thought it would be incredibly difficult for him - and so did they. A kid from Ireland would have managed it better. Different systems.

Rainbowandraindrops67 · 08/12/2017 01:18

Pallisers - you’re being a bit dense - yes they’d be behind if they came from us back to uk as uk system is more condensed and specialises early. I don’t really understand what you don’t understand

BeALert · 08/12/2017 01:21

From speaking online to other parents who've moved UK to US with high school age kids the other issue can be getting the US school to give the student credits based on their UK education, which can affect have a knock-on effect on GPA and university applications.

Don't think the OP has high school age kids though.

The other big issue for me is just not really understanding the US system and not knowing how to advocate for my child. DD1 should have been moved into advanced math classes at 7th grade but I was unaware it was an option and she spent a year or two very bored and demotivated.

pallisers · 08/12/2017 01:28

Thanks for calling me dense Rainbow.

I thought we were having an interesting discussion about different education systems.

Obviously not.

OrangeJulius · 08/12/2017 01:29

Rainbow The first two years of general study at university aren't considered a seperate degree AFAIK (though I suppose this could vary by state? I went to uni in California) You can get an associates degree from a community college for completing two years of general study, with the goal of transferring to uni for two further years, but I don't have this degree despite having a BA.

OrangeJulius · 08/12/2017 01:32

Or are you talking about subjects like medicine and law? Sorry, am confused.

Rooooooood · 08/12/2017 01:34

I know it's from a few days ago but Kursk wasn't describing a 'loophole' she was describing a way to get away with commiting fraud. It might 'work' but it's dishonest.

You can be eligible for home fee status if you live abroad but you have to meet certain requirements such as only being abroad on a temparory basis for work. Paying council tax is irrelevant in itself.

OlennasWimple · 08/12/2017 02:31

Sorry OP, this probably isn't helpful to you, but rainbows I am confused again

the school years are longer in the us - the uk compresses more into less years

I thought the argument was that the UK starts formal education earlier, so that is why UK students are regarded as being more advanced than US students? But your statement is the opposite of this Confused

RosyWelshcakes · 08/12/2017 02:45

I know it's from a few days ago but Kursk wasn't describing a 'loophole' she was describing a way to get away with commiting fraud. It might 'work' but it's dishonest

I think the people who make the decisions regarding home status have that little 'loophole' Hmm well covered nowadays and take other things into consideration as well.

Firefries · 08/12/2017 02:48

Do it.

Firefries · 08/12/2017 02:50

Don't worry about the education. What you don't get in the USA in terms of UK education you will get a richness you could never get from just staying in the U.K. I am not against the UK I love it but I'd jump at this chance if I were you.

Melony6 · 08/12/2017 03:04

Their degrees are less onerous hence many do masters in the us. I believe this because a graduate from the U.K. was doing a post grad course in Texas, she did a lot of marking and said degree work was more like A level standard. Also my DS did a year in the US as part of his degree and did a number of post grad merits as that was more in line with his knowledge. As has been said we probably end up at the same finishing line in the end.

pallisers · 08/12/2017 03:36

I believe this because a graduate from the U.K. was doing a post grad course in Texas, she did a lot of marking and said degree work was more like A level standard.

Right. Because whatever college she was teaching in in Texas and whatever course she was marking and her personal opinion denotes the standard for every university in the US - all 50 states including Yale, Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Sarah Lawrence, Howard, Caltec, Brown, NYU etc.

By the way in terms of excellence it is interesting to google secondary schools associated with nobel prize winners.

Melony6 · 08/12/2017 04:24

I doubt many people have studied both systems so I explained my reasons for my understanding.

mathanxiety · 08/12/2017 06:07

Rainbows, you are mistaken about degrees.
You don't do medicine as an undergrad, or law. For those qualifications you need the extra degree. You can choose to do a MBA if you wish but being equipped with 'just' a BA or BSc in business or finance won't hold you back in any way. You can do a masters in education if you decide during your undergrad degree when you are already on course to do something else that you wish to be a teacher. Or you could do a masters in a specialised area like school counselling or curriculum development. But you can equally do an undergrad degree in, for instance, elementary mathematics education.

DD1 has a bachelors degree in economics and has worked since graduating a month after turning 22, recently bought herself a condo. DD2 graduated earlier this summer with a degree in 'political economy' and works in a government department. Neither of them needs another degree. DS hopes to study medicine and will need further qualifications. One DD might go to law school eventually and one may do a masters in urban planning, but all of that is in the future and for the moment both are happily and gainfully employed.

Just that in the us the education stays generalised for much longer hence they do more years (typically to 25 whereas most uk leave at 21
This is simply not true.

In the US at high school especially they study fewer subjects each year, in more depth
This may be a typo, but in case it isn't, I want to correct it.
In a typical sequence for a student aiming to go to a selective university, you would do four years of science (one year each of biology, chemistry, physics and then an extra year at AP level of science/computer science), English, math, a modern foreign language or Greek/Latin, and humanities (history, psych, philosophy, government). You could also do subjects like economics, fine arts, music, some sort of engineering, etc.

Languages: four of my DCs did French in high school, loved it and have advanced really fast. They did Spanish in elementary school (RC private school) as that was all that was offered. One DC did Latin for three years, with one year of German. At university this DC was required to pass a foreign language with a certain degree of proficiency (science subject degree) and took up German again.

Melony6 Fri 08-Dec-17 03:04:10
Their degrees are less onerous hence many do masters in the us.
This is nonsense. I have experienced both Irish (Oxbridge style) and US systems - some of my DCs have already graduated from US universities, both private and public, and I graduated from one in Dublin. The universities my DCs attended are 'highly selective', very hard to get into, and very hard to get out of with a degree.

American graduates have sufficient coursework in many areas to make them very versatile graduates and future employees, or indeed employers. The early specialisation in the UK is a huge disadvantage.

OP, in your case, your older child would be in the last year of middle school at 13. It would be nice to get to know a group of friends before high school. Your 10 year old would be starting middle school, maybe in the last year of elementary school. Silicon Valley has a fairly large expat population, and is quite diverse in many ways. Many families are extremely motivated when it comes to education.

Schools in Silicon Valley are excellent. You will find all levels of aptitude catered for, many options in language study - no problem about having to drop German in favour of Spanish for instance. You may even find IB programmes at middle schools and high schools. You may find yourself gobsmacked at the quality of the facilities, all free (or costing whatever you pay in property taxes) if you choose a public school. Sports and extra curriculars are top notch. There would be endless opportunities for your children to develop their talents and follow their interests. The university of CA system is world class, and admission preference is given to CA applicants. If the DCs decide to apply, they might be eligible for financial aid or scholarships from whatever university they choose to apply to.

It might be worth looking up financial aid for the university of CA system. Each university would have its own site and regs. You could contact any university financial aid office to see if someone could give you some background knowledge, and some hint of what you can expect a few years down the road. If you end up going to CA, look out for advertised financial aid workshop events in your local high school. They usually have someone on staff who gives an overview, with a financial aid officer from a university to go through a detailed spiel. I went to one when my oldest DD was still in elementary school as I did not know anything about the application and fin aid process, and went again for a few years to glean more tips. I went to another just recently as DD4 is in her second last year of HS and some details change over time. Don't fret about details - you can ferret out information. Don't be afraid to contact institutions directly to arm yourself with the facts you need.

shoeaddict83 · 08/12/2017 08:44

Rainbowandraindrops67 thats not the case! AS stated i came back into Year 10, sat my GCSES having done 4 years in the US school system with no issues,. i attained 10 high grade GCSEs and 4 A Levels so clearly didn't effect me badly. The only thing as i said we had to do extra was languages.

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