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Is there still a German Thread?

492 replies

BeatrixBurgund · 23/09/2016 16:36

We've moved back to Germany after 8 years in Switzerland and Scotland, and with the kids in school, I just know I'm going to have lots of questions about the Bavarian education system.

And I'd love to catch up with all the folk I used to chat with (even if I can't remember their usernames!). I'm on a namechange - it's MmeLindor here!

OP posts:
goodiegoodieyumyum · 16/12/2016 18:31

Sugar Rectorin is what they call the head teacher at my DD's school. Your sons school sounds awful, is it possible for him to change schools is he the only foreigner in the school.

sugarplumfairy28 · 16/12/2016 18:39

Ah! DS's head is just called by her name, and never by a title so that might explain that. I'm going to have to do some digging as DS's school is the only one within 20 minutes of where we live. The school serves the surrounding 5 villages. I got incredibly stressed before he started school as we had no application papers, or choice of where he would go to school. When I spoke to Kindergarten the lady said it was just a given it would be this school as there is no others near by.

DS is the only English child but there are a couple of other foreign children, but I'm not too sure what their level of German is or what they are like at school.

5moreminutes · 16/12/2016 23:05

Our Grundschule is the same with regards to any bullying except physical beatings up witnessed by a teacher (DS1 stepped in between 3 boys in his class beating up the neighbour's son in the class above at break a couple of weeks ago, and got thumped in the process, and I only know because parents on both "sides" came to me). The aggressors did get banned from a trip and their parents and that of the boy they were beating up were called in, but nobody from school contacted me - neighbor popped over to thank me Confused and the mother of the boy who thumped DS1 called me to explain her DS hadn't meant to thump mine, mine just got in the way Confused[shock

There was also an incident with a bread knife in a school bus - teacher told kid off in front of me because she'd said to bring a small veg knife in to make soup not a bread knife (missed point somewhat, failed deliberately to grasp point that he was brandishing knife on a moving bus and could have killed someone). Went to the Rektor (who is based at and shared with the sister school) and he had no clue who my child was, suggested I talk to the other boy's parents and asked me to remind him of the relevant teacher's name so he could call her (doubt he did)

On the other hand, surprisingly, a conversation with knife boy's mum sorted it - he was going through tons of horrible stuff including losing his previously normal hearing rapidly and permanently and coping with his close in age brother having a serious of major surgeries and a new step dad and baby sister and his bio dad deciding to cut all contact, and being teased and bullied by a couple of other boys for the way he talked (originally from Czech republic) all in one six month period - his mum got him a play therapist and kept him on a shorter reign and he has been no trouble since - it was a couple of years ago.

We are rural - I think it is different from city schooling in quite deep seated ways.

I hope you can get it sorted sugarplum - does your son have interests outside school? I'd recommend joining a Verein (Football ideally or volunteer fire brigade if he's old enough - varies by area, some are from 7, some 9, some 12) as it gives them a ready made pack/ gang who have their back, though of course it shouldn't be necessary!

BertieBotts · 17/12/2016 07:33

I try not to go up to the school because the aggression I see unchecked in the playground alarms me. Luckily for DS he finds it easy to make friends and is well liked so doesn't have a problem but I think attitudes are very different. However all schools handle things differently and it's worth seeing if there's another one. DS's school has four of each year group and age mixes so klasse 1 and 2 are together and so are klasse 3 and 4 with the ganztagzeit being completely mixed.

We are currently looking into moving him to a private free school where it seems much more involved. I get the distinct impression that schools are so different here because children are viewed as small adults who deserve freedom, which, while I agree with, they still need boundaries and supervision with the understanding that they have not yet developed much common sense, empathy, etc!

sugarplumfairy28 · 17/12/2016 09:54

DS does go to a club house once a week but this is with mostly the same children he is at school with, in fact most clubs here are attended by the same children. I'm thinking of getting back into karate, and have found a club that isn't near by, so maybe taking DS with me might an idea, it will completely ruin the idea of Mummy having some alone time, but I don't think I have much choice atm.

5moreminutes · 17/12/2016 16:09

sugarplum I suppose it might vary by state and even rural/ urban area, but where we are it is very nearly impossible to send your child to any state primary school other than their catchment one - its different at secondary, but I have never heard of anyone changing state primary except by moving house.

Mixed aged clubs with a sub set of children they are at school with can be good though, helps them belong more... Its good when they are with children older than themselves too because then those children are also vaguely looking out for them at school. That's what we've found to date anyway. But of course also good to have friends from elsewhere. Karate could well be a good one. We have found football to be the making of DS1 though - he was cripplingly shy for a while but the whole team nature of football and the fact they train together three times a week gave him a real group identity - he's been with the same club since he was 4 (so for over 5 years now) and they really have each other's backs. Its not for everyone though - my DS2 tried it for a bit, but he isn't really a team type Hmm tbh I'm not either Blush but for children it suits it is brilliant.

Bertie be careful to "read between the lines" of everything you are told and see at open days at the free school - the Eltern Initiative Aktive Schule I taught at was also a free school and there was indeed more proactive involvement in solving conflict, but there were also more behaviour problems and more bullying than at the state Grundschule as far as I can see because they had such a concentration of "Square Pegs" - a very tiny school which very naturally appealed to those whose kids weren't fitting in for all sorts of reasons, or indeed were on last warnings for behaviour, at state Grundschule in the area, including several who had been through 5 or 6 state and private schools already by the age of 8 or 9 ... There was a higher concentration of difficult characters than in the general primary school population and an awful lot of time was spent with all the children sitting in a circle talking through conflicts and proposing resolutions, which seemed a good idea but did not always/ often actually achieve much once a day, or an hour, had passed...

A bigger, long established school may well be entirely different, but it would be a big reservation for me, about sending children to that sort of school.

When I do crossing patrol at our Grundschule once a fortnight I am also unofficially watching the playground for that hour before school starts, and yes there are some scuffles, but so far calling out the kids' names has always broken them up, and then kids who feel vulnerable will tend to stand by me (and on other days whoever is doing crossing patrol) at the traffic lights until the (church) bell chimes 7:45 and they are allowed in.

They aren't as micro managed as in England but I don't think they are bad kids for the most part - knowing their names and who their parents are as far as possible helps :o

DD glided through Grundschule without any conflict at all, so it does depend on the child and boys do tend to have a different experience I think (not by their intrinsic nature obviously, before anyone assumes I mean "boys will be boys" :o but that does seem to be a general trend for whatever sociological reason...) I must say DS1 has been generally unruffled by conflict he has been caught up in personally, and remains quite a sensitive type who gets upset at any and all perceived unfairness and so, ironically, gets himself involved when he could walk away... Hmm

BertieBotts · 17/12/2016 19:56

Thanks 5more - TBH, that does concern me a little, as I have heard that there are some issues with bullying at this school. But I think that the educational environment will suit DS much better and it's far more convenient in a childcare sense, which, to be honest, is the main reason we want to move him. I am afraid that I am probably a little rose tinted because the whole ethos of the school is the same as an idea I had several years ago about a school I'd start in the UK given unlimited time, money, resources and lack of government interference Grin

I don't get the impression that it's a last haven for kids who find other schools difficult, but now you've pointed that out, I suppose it might be the right question to ask.

sugarplumfairy28 · 18/12/2016 09:10

I'm really not convinced DS is the problem. I know he does have a good mix of friends of different ages. At least 2 good friends that are in year above, several in Klasse 1 that were in his Kindergarten group, and friends in his Klasse, and a good mix of girls and boys.

We have had a few friends of his round our house, 1 was absolutely dreadful who had no boundaries and no attention span at all. He has been to his best friends house, when I picked him up his was running around and being loud, I apologised and the Mum laughed and said it was totally fine (she has 4 boys) and that DS was easy. No parent whose house he has visited has had a bad word to say about him, and he has invitations to go back.

The club house he goes to, are a little more informative about things, and the couple of times there has been a problem, it has always been a group of them, and he has followed suit.

DS does love sport, just not football that much. His sport teacher and old Maths teacher is his favourite, and at parents evening offered DS a place on the basketball team, I really don't know why, but DS is really wary and doesn't want to be on the team. He loves basketball so much so a basketball hoop is the number 1 thing he wants for Christmas. Karate and perhaps an alternative set of friends might give him some confidence. He knows my old Sensei and is now kicking himself that he didn't take her up on her 1 to 1 offer to train him (but in all fairness he may have just been a little too young) Plus on the upside, if this situation at school isn't going to be dealt with by the school, it would give him a way to defend himself should things like the changing room happen again.

5moreminutes · 18/12/2016 10:29

Sorry Sugar I didn't mean to say your DS was the problem, just suggest things that might help him feel he belongs more, and feel more confident, within the flawed system we are working with. It's great he has good friends at school already though. I wonder why he is wary of the basketball team - could there be kids he doesn't get on with on the team already?

sugarplumfairy28 · 18/12/2016 10:46

That wasn't aimed at you 5more just been going over it in my head, and I'm not convinced he is anything other than normal. He really hasn't said anything about the team, he said there are bigger boys that can shoot better than him but that's about it. The teacher would be there, and he really only has good things to say about DS so I don't know, DS does want to go karate though.

I spoke to my karate teacher this morning, she is one of my oldest friends and she has so much experience with tear away boys and she also doesn't think it's him. She is absolutely fantastic though and is booking a flight to come give DS a crash course on basic self defense in light of the lack of s**ts given at school.

I was bullied within an inch of my life in the UK (literally), and it is really worrying me that this is going on already with DS.

Mrsdraper1 · 21/12/2016 00:32

Hi ladies, can I join in? We are in Manchester right now but moving to Munich in April. Other half is Austrian and has a job lined up. My girls are 5 and 9 and don't speak german. I understand lots but no confidence. I have a celta qualification so plan to have a go at that.
Am feeling a bit down about it all right now. Bit stressed with selling the house and Christmas etc. Very anxious about how the kids will cope and whether I will have any job prospects. Hubby tells me will all be fine but not sure what he is basing that on!
Any tips and/or encouragement would be gratefully received!

5moreminutes · 21/12/2016 06:13

Hi MrsDraper welcome

There are plenty of opportunities to teach EFL on a self employed basis in the Munich area, and a fair smattering of "mini jobs" on a 450€ per month basis (mini jobs are tax free and you can remain as a dependent on your husband's health insurance but your employer also gets out of paying into the state pension and unemployment insurance funds etc for you). More substantial employed jobs as an English as a foreign language teacher are rare though - language schools all use self employed teachers now. It is easy enough to go self employed but it affects what health insurance you can have, and of course you have to sort your own tax and pay out a fair whack in pension, disability insurance, unemployment insurance etc etc without an employer making a contribution.

Will your children go to state Kindergarten / school? There are English medium international schools but if course they are eye wateringly expensive.

It's quite common not to work here, or just to work part time, so you'd be able to build a network even if you don't work full time initially. The school day finishes at 11:30 / 12:15 unless you pay for lunch club and homework club/ afternoon care, which can be oversubscribed in some schools. You could always start by offering VHS classes in the morning while the kids are at school - earnings through VHS are classed as a Pauschal which is exempt from the rules of self employed earnings if you just earn a couple of thousand classes are term time only which works around children well...

Good luck!

Mrsdraper1 · 21/12/2016 09:48

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. The kids will go to state school as we thought international school is a) too expensive and b) the children will change often so DD will lose her friends as their parents jobs move on.
We have a relocation consultant paid for by the company who is going to help us with it.
I had heard that language teaching is low paid and not reliable for a steady job but tbh I don't really want to do it long term anyway. I just thought that it would be handy as something I can do straight away until my German improves. Is it hard to get a job when you speak the language? I have a degree in History and have worked managing a team of 15 for the last 10 years but am worried that in Germany you have to have very specific qualifications.
Feeling very anxious and emotional about it all at the moment, I can think of lots of reasons why it's a good idea but I my heart sinks when I think about leaving. I think it's because so much is up in the air at the moment and stressed with the house sale.
Anyway, going to have to buck up! Thanks ladies

5moreminutes · 21/12/2016 10:20

Mrs there are lots of companies with English as a business language in Munich. DH is German but never speaks German as his office language is English and we do minority language at home :o ironically I have to speak German all bloody day long as I host the kids' all German friends and work in a care home (where I would have said nobody speaks English, except that I discovered last week that a Rumanian colleague has a master's degree in English literature - we've been speaking bad German to one another for months, then we were left in charge of the floor alone at a quiet time and she started speaking almost flawless English to me, saying she'd been waiting to but it's rude when there are other people about Shock )

There are lots of English speaking jobs in Munich though - you'd be better going straight for something in your field while your work experience is current.

Mrsdraper1 · 21/12/2016 10:47

Thanks so much for the info, that is really good to know. I will definitely bear it in mind. We are considering Solln or Pullach as areas to live as they are on the Sbahn as hubby is homeworker but I would be best off having quick access to the rest of the city to maximise job chances.
Is it true that they are real sticklers for having exact qualifications?

Mrsdraper1 · 21/12/2016 10:49

Also another question sorry, can anyone recommend job sites for me to look at for English speaking jobs?
Thanks so much

5moreminutes · 21/12/2016 13:29

the local has some

the official job centre

You'd do better creating a linked in or Xing profile if you don't have one and updating your profile location to Munich.

There are loads of big international firms in Munich and looking directly at their websites is also probably better than generic job sites - Microsoft definitely employ non German speaking people.

BertieBotts · 21/12/2016 13:35

It doesn't seem to matter about qualifications as long as you have some, and experience helps more. Loads of places work in English. I just wish I had a degree!

5moreminutes · 21/12/2016 13:38

Yes you do have an apprenticeship leading to a specific qualification for everything here (many jobs regarded in the UK as unskilled which would only expect a couple of GCSEs would expect a 3 year apprenticeship here, and people do apprenticeships for office admin or sales jobs etc) but international qualifications are accepted - it depends what job you do really. DH's firm recruits from all over the world (IT). It is less usual to just apply for and get a job you have no background or qualifications in than in the UK, but not impossible if you have specific skills or the field struggles to recruit. If you have lots of up to date experience you should be fine though.

VioletWillow · 21/12/2016 13:48

Hi MrsDraper! I also live in Manchester, for now, anyway, we move 18th February! OH is going to work from home, I'm expecting and due in May so will take some time for maternity and then will set up as a childminder and do some English tutoring - there is a good site to advertise as an English tutor, I am hoping my native English and teaching degree will have a little weight! But am thinking of doing some Skype work mainly in the evening and hopefully establish myself and do some after school work tutoring as the kidlets get older. Munich is a gorgeous city, I'm a little envious! It would be my choice of city but is a bit far from OH's family so we are moving to just outside Tübingen instead 😊 We fly out to see the outlaws on Friday and have an appointment to see our new place just after Christmas, I am ridiculously excited about it 😊 We keep poring over a floor plan and talking about what we need to put where 😊

homeBird9 · 21/12/2016 14:04

Mrsdraper I've been in Munich a few years now and spent most of the 1st year learning the language - I can get by with it, but work in a role where I am almost exclusively communicating in English (marketing). I did teach for a bit as well but the pay isn't great and I didn't love it. Suggest you register with internations, great way to meet expats, build a network, get tips on anything and everything to do with local German life! I am very happy here though did struggle to find work in the beginning, Munich is somewhere where it makes a big difference to have contacts! Good luck with the move. Munich is a great city for kids.

KimmySchmidtsSmile · 21/12/2016 14:28

Ooh this just popped up in Active.
So...frohes Fest und einen guten Rutsch....

To those moving here do make sure if you are renting:
You join your local Mietverein with added legal insurance, it is worth it for any landlord issues
You get Haftpflichtversicherung asap (liability insurance), it is a must have here
There are brokers on toytown Germany, I used Starshollow but John on there also seems good.
I pay I think something like 75 euro for Mietverein and 100 and something for liability but do get both.

State school where I am is postcode based. Pastoral care was not like in the UK although the school soziale padogogin stepped up a bit when my eldest was being bullied by a boy. Ultimately I had him round for a play date with one other. He was smart enough to know I had his number. Luckily he moved classes. I did bend his ear though when I heard him say something awful and I said in a charming voice I'm sure my DD isn't the ugliest child in the world, but even if she was, I don't think your mum would like you saying that would she? you little shit He stopped soon after.
Most parents do the "let the kids sort it out themselves" tack, which whilst can be sensible in some cases, does not work where Mobbing is happening.

Mrsdraper1 · 21/12/2016 15:08

Thanks so much for all the replies, 5more you have given some really valuable advice. I really appreciate it, thanks for taking the time xx
Violet, so great to hear someone in the same sitch. i just wish I felt excited like you. Maybe I will when we have an actual house to think about. I just feel really meh and worry about the language. Tubingen is in a nice area, spent lots of holidays around that neck of the woods as a child. Can I PM you?
Homebird, thanks for the suggestion, I will give that a go (Internations). I don't think I will love teaching either, I just thought it would be handy and mean I could find some work in the short term.
Kimmy thanks for the info about renting and schools. Are you in Munich?

Mrsdraper1 · 21/12/2016 15:10

Do you all have mainly ex pat friends or a mixture or all German friends?
Are German people easy to make friends with? My hubby is Austrian and they are (mostly) pretty sociable.

VioletWillow · 21/12/2016 18:04

MrsDraper please do 😊
I find the Germans friendly, less inclined to small talk and frippery but are very warm with a good sense of humour. I may have fallen lucky so far but have met a number of kindred spirits during my many visits in the last 5 years. I think its easier for me to be excited as we have planned for this mentally for a long time, OH is German and ready to go home (for a long time) so we have been looking at cities and counting down over the last few visits (we have been flying out at least three times a year). Plus we know a lot of folks there so it's a lot more like moving to another county with friends already there for us, we're very lucky. I do expect the homesickness to hit in some ways but I get that now when we leave Germany as we have put many roots down. I have all German friends there but do plan to visit the Children's English Library in Stuttgart often to meet other English speakers to keep DD's English exposure up and to meet new people, but I meet people fairly easily from being a wrapper (Tübingen is full of wrappers) so conversations are struck up easily about brands and carries 😊