Is there still a German Thread?

[BeatrixBurgund]

We've moved back to Germany after 8 years in Switzerland and Scotland, and with the kids in school, I just know I'm going to have lots of questions about the Bavarian education system.

And I'd love to catch up with all the folk I used to chat with (even if I can't remember their usernames!). I'm on a namechange - it's MmeLindor here!

[sap263]

That is a question I have been been trying to sort out. What comes first the place to live or the school? I have emailed some schools (german, private and bilingual) and had no luck.

[5moreminutes]

Sap the place to live usually comes first. You automatically get a place at your local Grundschule. Special needs may alter this though, but you really need local people to answer your question as an out of state answer will have limited applicability. I'd try the local fb group.

Hackney why don't you want your eldest to do a year of Kindergarten? Is your move permanent? If it is it is worth the investment of a year to get his language skills started before school. You'll almost certainly find a wide range of ages in his school class - in my DD's secondary school class last year the youngest is still 11 and the eldest almost 14. In my DS1's primary school class the eldest turned 10 while several in the class were still 8. We held DS1 back a year (he'd have been the youngest child in the class above - we're a one form entry rural school and yes, I know almost all the kids and when their birthdays are, especially as I was a SAHM when DC1 and 2 were at Kindergarten and the start of primary). We kept him back purely because he was very shy and not very organised - his German is native speaker level. There are 7 other children in his class who were held back (6 boys and one girl) so in fact he isn't anywhere near the oldest in his class despite having been kept back. The one and only thing it affects is the annual state sports competition - they compete by date of birth so that is the one time those who were held back stand out as they are measured against others born in the academic year of their birth. Otherwise nobody gives it a thought. Kids who stay back a year generally do better, not worse.

We are outside Munich, only 40 minutes by train from the centre but I used to be on a facebook expat parents in Munich group and barely recognised the Munich experience as relating to my own, so I am still probably not much help.

However:

1. The style of education is more old school with emphasis on homework, fitting in
   

This is true

and kids with SEN seem to have it tougher than in London.

This is not necessarily true - it depends on your point of view. I used to teach at a London secondary school and IMO being put into mainstream with partial TA support is toucher than going to the special schools here with tiny classes and very high teacher to child ratios. I taught "bottom sets" in London with 20 kids all of whom either had SEN or were EAL and had one TA for 3/4 of lessons. I'd say that was tougher on the kids than a special school here.

However if your child is doing well in mainstream in London then yes, the system here may well be tougher and not a good fit. It very much depends on the child, and the school you are coming from.

In our small village I know 2 children who have thrived at special school, one of whom has been re-integrated into mainstream for year 3 (the special school does years 1 and 2 over 3 years, then the children who they feel are ready go into year 3 of their local primary) and another of whom has stayed at the special school and her parents are happy it is the right school for her. However we also know a boy with HFA (not well, long story but his mother is difficult, and dumped her son on me to look after and disappeared out of contact for several hours without telling me he had HFA and behaviour problems or what to expect/ how to manage him at one point, so the relationship is very hot and cold) who spent 7 months without a school place - so certainly the system was failing him. His mother said he did not cope in a mainstream classroom, which I am absolutely sure is true, but he was then excluded until a place in a specialist school became available. I can't say how that is as he's starting in September. However I don't think that exprience is unknown in the UK either.

Certainly there is less support in mainstream schools for SN, but on the other hand I have heard a lot of good things about our local Förderschulen.

1. If you don't speak German as a 6y old, either they send you out of town to a school where they let you in or ask you to repeat a year in kindergarten to get your German up to speed.
   

I have never heard of a child being sent out of town - if anything out of town schools will be less set up to cope with non native speakers. If the child is 6 another year of immersion at Kindergarten is a far better idea than throwing them in at the deep end at school. Children are expected to be very self reliant at school right from early on, and it would take a very mature, confident child to cope and thrive if thrown in without at least good passive understanding of German.

1. If you don't speak German as a 6y old, either they send you out of town to a school where they let you in or ask you to repeat a year in kindergarten to get your German up to speed.

[5moreminutes]

We have a 4 bedroom semi detached house with a small garden about 40 minutes drive from Schwabing - we pay the same rent here as we would for a one room bedsit in Schwabing ...

You pay an enormous premium to live in a popular area of Munich!

However if you move to a village you absolutely have to integrate, you can't do the ex pat thing. Our village is lovely, but there is no public transport except school buses (secondary school buses are technically public, but they run at 6:30am in one direction and return at 1pm - so although anyone can buy a ticket and use them they are only nominally regular buses), so you have to budget for 2 cars and a lot of petrol...

[5moreminutes]

You'll get a Kindergarten place straight away though - and the Kindergarten is lovely, I had one or more children there without a break from 2008 until this July... There was once a massive scandal because a pair of twins turned 3 and there wasn't a place for them at the Kidergarten immediately, it was in the paper, it was about 4 years ago...

Which is why I don't recognise the Munich experience despite living 40km outside

[hackneymunchen]

5moreminutes, that's a very detailed response thanks a lot for that. It looks like you've really gone in to the deep end of integration into a bavarian village :)

We are very open to sending ds1 for kindergarten for one more year. We were thinking if is he is likely to get bored to go back to kindergarten after two years of school in the UK (reception, year 1).
The learning seems to keep him busy but if he has to go back to something less structured, isn't that going to be difficult to engage or do they do some kind of learning, even if not formal, in the last year of kindergarten ?

And as schooling is legally compulsory, I guess we would need to first go to a state school who would probably redirect him to a kindergarten ?

[5moreminutes]

As long as he is under 7 it is very easy to get zurückgestellt on the basis of your Migrationshintergrund - just go to a paediatrician and ask them to write you a letter recommending it. They will. Deferring for a year is widely regarded as good, caring parenting, and being pushy as a bit unpleasant and cold :o

They learn loads at Kindergarten and there is some structure - very much like a Montessori 3-6 year old classroom. If you only do mornings there will usually actually be a structure behind the scenes, but if you use afternoons it will just be free play babysitting (that is our experience - I must say again it is not the same everywhere - I have heard second hand about some truly rubbish Kindergartens, especially private ones).

Whether Kindergarten will suit your child I can't say of course, but the day at ouors is structured with circle time at 8:30 (official start time) and a core programme from 8:30-11:30, with children working and playing in small groups. The children are generally very calm and know what is going on.

Our Kindergarten does throw the programme out of the window in summer, when the children play outside all day with water and sand (under sun sails) if they wish (the building is open and they can go inside too). I love this as did my kids, but of course it may trouble a child who needs structure.

I think the ability to play and learn through play and create their own entertainment and negotiate with peers to solve their own problems without being constantly adult led is absolutely crucial, and am so happy my children had 3 years of this at Kindergarten. The environment is crafted to allow that and play situations set up to target teachable moments but let the kids make their own choices and discoveries, but the staff at a good Kindergarten will be quietly watching and step in at the right moments. Each group will have an Erzieher who has done 3 years training for the job and is very much like a Montesssori early years teacher, as well as a Kinderpfelegerin who is more like a nursery nurse.

Don't underestimate that your child needs to become fluent in an entire new language in a year - that'd be a challenge for an adult, so expecting a child to manage it whilst also coping with a full immersion in strict formal classroom setting is a massive ask IMO.

[TheHoundsofLove]

You've all got me really worried now... Our son is already 7 (so would be going into Yr 3 in September here) - we decided against an International School as our move is likely to be permanent and felt that the local school would give him the best chance of making some local German friends. He is a very gregarious sort of a boy and loves different people, so I'm just hoping that stands him in good stead....I am really worried about it, though, if I'm honest.

[Schlobbob]

Hi all,

5more - I also found what you have said very useful, thank you for all your insights :-)

Hackney - when house hunting we looked at a maximum commute time DH was prepared to do then set a budget, changed our mind a few times on the number of bedrooms we wanted and just kept looking on immobilienscout. DH was working out here when we started looking and we had a lady help us as well that DH's work gave us an allowance for. We did a househunting trip midweek and have found a fab place that really suits us. We were told if you find a place on immoscout for example it is the landlord that pays any fees, not the tenant. There are so many areas all over Munich, if you can come and do a couple of days together to choose somewhere, hop around on the s-bahn and visit the local areas - we did a lot of walking!!

Hounds I agree with you, DS1 would be year 3 age and we won't know until early September what the school will decide for him, given what 5more said about holding children back years I do wonder if him starting in the first year and receiving language report will be the best thing for him.

We are off to the closest kindergarten this afternoon during their talking time to ask about a place for DS2, wish us luck!

[hackneymunchen]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for sharing your experiences. I hope it goes really well which ever route, i.e stay a year longer in kindergarten or go to school.
For our 6y old, I think we are split between sending him to kindergarten or to school with an ubergangsklasse, we can only decide once we meet the school I guess.
It would be great to hear back from your experiences once school starts. I must say finding this discussion group has made me a lot more comfortable about the move !

[TheHoundsofLove]

How is everyone getting on? We move a week today! I'm really looking forward to it, but my anxiety levels are reaching new heights....there's just so much to think about! Our new house looks lovely (have only seen photos) and I am very much excited about the adventure. I think that I just need to get on with it now, really!

[BertieBotts]

Good luck hounds!

[TeaAddict235]

Wahltag is here. How are you all coping with the minute by minute analysis?

[BertieBotts]

Hi all, this fell off my TIO I think.

My dilemma: It's Elternabend season. Those of you without German husbands, do you go? I had an utterly horrendous experience two years ago where I cried in front of the whole class full of parents and then everybody ignored me from then on so I never went back. But I'm feeling like Klasse 3 is probably the time to start taking an interest. I don't know what I'm doing with Realschule/Gymnasium/etc and I need to support DS in that decision.

[TeaAddict235]

Hey bertie, We had our Elternabend 2weeks ago and as DH was abroad i just didn't go. I informed DS1's teachers and the next day they gave me a summary. I missed out on the pumpkin & ginger soup though that was cooked for the parents.

I imagine that the other parents have forgotten about that evening 2years ago or have probably warmed to you for being real.

[5moreminutes]

Bertie I have been to every parents evening except the very first starting kindergarten one, despite speaking almost no German at the start. Since the first one my German husband won't go because they're pointless and it's mainly mother's...

Actually school ones are about 1/3 father's, but if I didnt go nobody would. Ten years and 3 kids in I am deeply cynical and deliberately arrive late to avoid the touchy feely bit and the Elternsprecher election but still collect all the paperwork

I have come here to scream virtually because my Ausbildung ist a horrendous nightmare of participatory enforced fun in German I want lectures and essays not to express my feelings with my body (seriously)... 3 years of a special Butlinsesque section of hell await me... I'm telling myself to view it as a free German course, and focus on the qualification at the end which is basically insurance against ever being out of work, but focussing on an end goal seems to be the antithesis of what the course tutors want, they're all about process and "Fun" ...

Just had to get that off my chest. We've had a full week of 8 hour school days this week and I'm longing to go back to work

[Evelynismyspyname]

Sorry about the apostrophes, didn't reread the autocorrect!

Bertie nobody will remember that you cried and if they do won't think less of you - they undoubtedly ignored you only because they didn't know what to do and hadn't done my Ausbildung

[Evelynismyspyname]

Name change ^ I'm rubbish at that

[doradoo]

Hallo zusammen - how are we all getting on? Willkommen to all our new German residents!

I can't believe how quickly this year is flying by, herbstferien start here on Friday - yay!! The downside is though a duty visit back to blighty - I suppose at least all the Christmas bits will be in store so we can bring back the essentials!

Im loving the 'goldene Oktober ' we're having up here in Essen at the mo, the weather is glorious! More time for biergarten and Eis!!

Anyway, just a chatty post to bump the thread! And hope that life in Germany is treating you all well

[Welshcake77]

Last day of Herbstferien for us here in Hessen tomorrow already doradoo! It's gone so quickly. DD has settled on ok at school but sh doesn't like hort...it's still difficult leaving her in the morning. She can't tell me what it is that bothers her there though so not easy to sort it out! She's been there this week in the Ferien programme which seems to be helping so fingers crossed it will slowly get better.

I've just booked us flights back to the UK for Christmas so looking forward to that!

Hope everyone is getting on ok. How are all the new residents settling in?

[TeaAddict235]

Well done welsh! Must have been a huge transition for you too? Your DD must have really enjoyed the holidays as school can be exhausting for them sometimes. She'll adapt to hort. How is the pregnancy btw?

Kindergarten life is plodding along. Our furniture is arriving in bits and bobs, so just the sofa and some bookshelves & cupboards then we're done. Our front garden is the least maintained garden on the road, not sure how long we can play the 'new arrivals card' by which DH means he has other things to do than cutting hedges.

Have you all been visiting your local Erntedankfeste? They're very sweet.

[TheHoundsofLove]

Hallo! I also can't believe how quickly time is flying by...first half term at school nearly done...one more week to go! I am absolutely loving all the tree colours at the moment - a goldene Oktober indeed!
We're settling in very well. However, my 2 main concerns are driving on the 'wrong' side of the road...which I really hate and the fact that I am finding it really hard to learn German. But my language lessons start this week - I'm going to have 4 hours a week - so I'm hoping that it might accelerate my non progress a bit. Any tips would be very gratefully received!
Tea I actually started attacking our front garden this week as it is also the least maintained on the street! I do love gardening though, so it's a little project that I can throw myself into and a good way, I have found, of getting to know a few more of our neighbours!

[PeterRabbitsBlueCoat]

Gluten Abend!

Is anyone still around on this thread? I'm currently in Karlsruhe househunting!

My husband starts a new job in the Black Forest at the beginning of Feb so we're out here for a few days trying to find somewhere to live. We have 2 DDs (2 & 12 weeks) & I'll be a Hausfrau for now while they're still so little.

We've having a huge dilemma about where to live. Our budget seems to be a choice of:
Smallish house/apartment near to amenities. We've seen a lovely apartment in Pforzheim which would give the girls a room each, but not a lot of outside space & no room for a playroom. V close to shops etc (could walk) & close to Karlsruhe where I know there's a big English-speaking community.
Or
Massive house out in the forest where we'd have spare bedrooms, a playroom etc BUT there's not a lot about, I'd have to speak German all the time, and drive if I wanted to go anywhere. I love driving in the UK but never done it in Europe & am a bit scared!

My German is OK, but rusty. I can get by in shops, restaurants, transport etc but am slightly anxious about being able to do small talk and make friends. Also, with a 12-week old and a crap-sleeping hyperactive 2 year old, I'm bloody knackered and my memory isn't great!! I really want to fully immerse myself in German life, but I feel it'd be a lot easier if I knew there were English people about if I need it. I've not had to deal with both girls on my own v often as DH was redundant since I had the newest and it scares me a bit!

Can anyone offer any advice? Would I be better with a smaller home but closer to amenities ?

Thanks in advance!

[PeterRabbitsBlueCoat]

FFS autocorrect!!

GUTEN not gluten

[Welshcake77]

PeterRabbit in your shoes I’d definitely go for the smaller but closer to amenities option. I can imagine how it tempting the extra space must be but it can be isolating in itself arriving here and not knowing anyone. Then when the weather is still not the best in Feb at least you can get out for 10 mins every day to pop to the shops and you’ll have more options for baby/kids groups etc. There’ll just be generally more chances for interaction with others. Good luck!

[PeterRabbitsBlueCoat]

Thanks Welshcake !

We've seen one today which seemed a good compromise: good size house & in a nice small town with KITA at the bottom of the road!

Except.... it's a bit expensive & isn't available til April. Contemplating temporary accommodation (airbnb flat in Karlsruhe) til it's ready.

Aaaaaargh this is so hard!!!