Life in America with primary age children

[WhattodoSue]

We are seriously considering relocating to the US (I have a US passport, but have never lived there). We have just spent an amazing month there, but I'm very aware that a month's holiday is NOT the same as daily life. We love the heat (we were in Texas, although during their rainy period, so it was cooler than normal), and I'm craving a slightly more relaxed lifestyle (we live in London). BUT, I know traffic is terrible in lots of parts of the US (not even considering the quality of the driving, or lack there of). So, I'm trying really hard to get a realistic idea of the pros and cons, and whether it would be a better lifestyle. So, please, tell me what you love about life in America, and what you hate, and whether or not you enjoy your lifestyle. I should perhaps say that we wouldn't have a massive income, I think it might be something like $130000 before tax (which does sound huge, but is obviously not much compared to banking/tech incomes).

We could potentially move anywhere (dependent on me getting an Assistant Professorship in a good University department), and so I'm also really interested to know what life would be like in different parts of the US. The parts I know best are California, which I understand is quite expensive, and Texas, which we actually quite like. I don't know anything in the middle, or the east coast very well at all. I do know that I like the diversity and tolerance of London - but possibly it isn't wise to go to the US to expect that.

Finally (for now), how easy/hard is it to make friends? I realise that is going to be very dependent on the individual, but we wouldn't be part of any church communities etc. and I'm worried that that might be a barrier (particularly if we ended up in Texas).

Any thoughts, experiences, suggestions, advice would be very appreciated!

"Minnesota Nice" is the old image of Minnesota which was ethnically mostly German and Scandinavian. It was always seen as homogeneously white, made up of north European stock, but just like Scandinavia or Germany today it is becoming much more racially diverse with all the opportunities and challenges that brings. For example, the case where the black man was shot dead by police while his girlfriend filmed the whole thing live on Facebook with her 4 year old daughter in the backseat happened in a Minneapolis suburb.

I am not down on MN, I think it is a good choice if you can handle the winter. I just think it's pointless to go with regional stereotypes.

Minnesota is becoming more diverse, certainly, but that hasn't had much of an impact on Minnesota Nice, which refers to superficial friendliness rather than any sense of white European heritage. I live in the city and I actually think it lacks diversity. On the other hand, I don't hang out in North Minneapolis very often, which is the most diverse part of the town.

Philandro Castille was murdered in a suburb of St. Paul.

OP I work in the same field as you.The reality is that it is very tough to get any of the many jobs advertised in the US unless you have a great CV and copious pubs. You won't have the contacts and informal network that other candidates have coming from outside the US so you start at a disadvantage. Every job has hundreds of applicants!
In reality, I suggest that if you are thinking of relocating you start now (the fall is the beginning of the application cycle)m apply to every job at every half-research university, and come Feb./March/ April time see if you have any choice. (I wouldn't take a job at a SLA college, and it sounds like you wouldn't either.) The reality is that you are not likely to have much choice, and if you do, you try to negotiate a package (salary/start-up money/ teaching & administrative load) at the highest-rated University for your specific academic area. Weather, school districts, politics etc. can't usually be a factor for a starting tenure-track position - you just have to make the best of those....
GL

Half-research = half-decent research

FWIW DH and I were just talking about where else in the US we would like to live, and he is adamant that he would never live in a state like Texas that still has the death penalty. Not because he's worried he's going to commit a felony with a capital punishment tariff, but he is so opposed to it that it would feel hypocritical to him to live there.

Olennas comment brings to mind another consideration. I refuse to live in a school district that allows corporal punishment in the schools. Nineteen states allow it (most are in the South and Texas is one of them), but most leave it up to individual school districts and most require parental permission. Still it is an issue that I feel strongly about and I will not pay property taxes to support a school district that allows children to be hit.

Do what I do and think of each of the states as a different country, and decide which ones suit you and which don't. I have often said that the US is like a collection of different countries uncomfortably lumped together under a single flag. The upside-tremendous variety. The downside is obvious.

Regarding faculty positions at US universities-beware of judging universities based on "ranking." I went to a relatively low-ranked university with very modest admission criteria that had the world's second highest percentage of Harvard-educated Ph.Ds on faculty-second only to Harvard itself.

The reason for this was because the salaries and benefits offered to faculty members was higher than many more highly-regarded schools, and the student body was diverse and challenging. Many of us (myself included) went on to excellent graduate programs and careers.

In fact, I even have friends who teach in community colleges who are paid well and find the work very gratifying.

I like Olennas' and Seneca's ethics about not living in a state with which one has a severe difference of opinion, but if I had an employment opportunity I would probably do so. When my gay sister moved to Texas, there was a state constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. She met her partner there and they were eventually able to get married there once the laws changed. Change happens, and it happens sooner if there are people willing to oppose the status quo.

I think your biggest issue is going to be getting a good job with a decent salary and benefits. Lots of academics are on short term contracts and are really suffering. Tenure track positions are hard to get and usually come through really strong recommendations from your PhD program. Even then, depending on the subject, academic salaries can be low.

From the point of view of living here ...

I live in Massachusetts. I love it here. I miss home a lot but life here is great for us and our children.

I would not live in Texas or any other death penalty state. I could not live with my tax dollars paying for judicial killing. Besides that, I would also only chose Texas if I was fairly well off and could live in a really good school district and know that I could afford to travel for an abortion if I needed one.

But like others have said, I have met people from all over the US and most people I meet are lovely, welcoming, and many are very liberal (MA had gay marriage well before any country in Europe, my cousin moved to Houston, TX and the gay couple who lived next door became best friends with them and were at their daughter's high school graduation years after they moved from Texas)

In terms of pension (you mentioned this) you are basically on your own with a bit of support from social security and whatever your employer might kick in for 401K contributions - not all employers do and if you are on contract to a university, you will get nothing.

I think your focus should be on jobs - what you and your dh could realistically get, what you would earn, what benefits, including health and 401K you would get.

To avoid a jurisdiction without the death penalty really narrows one's choices, especially considering that the federal government has the death penalty. A majority of states have it, including, surprisingly, California although some are more eager to apply it than others.

Reading through this I concur that North Carolina is a very good option for you. I never expected to like the place but found myself loving it.

We live in northern NJ. It is expensive however there are lots of excellent opportunities here. I know a couple of people who work at NYU and they are in heavily subsidized housing. They might only make $130k but they have no housing costs and minimal healthcare costs compared to working for a private company.

For the sake of clarity, Minneapolis and St. Paul are one metroplex. They are like St. Louise/Kansas City, or Dallas/FortWorth.

I honestly can't thank you all enough. You have given me so much information and food for thought.

I knew that the tenure-track system was tricky in the US, but I hadn't realised quite how tricky it was (and has become in recent years). I think I was thinking back to people I knew of (more than knew) who moved to the US during my PhD, but that was probably about 15 years ago. In the UK I've seen how the funding squeeze has negatively impacted, but it sounds like that is as bad or worse in the US. I think my approach is going to have to be to see what jobs come up, do some serious research into the institutions, and apply as broadly as possible.

The ideas on where to live have broadened my ideas about possible locations that might work for us (please keep them coming), and although I love Texas to visit, I think that as an ideal location, the colder north east would probably suit us better on an ideological level. But, fundamentally, it will depend on where the job comes up that is right for me (and I'm right for them).

I would need to move somewhere where research activity was a central part of the job - for that reason I'm assuming junior colleges would be more teaching focused and so not suitable. PitilessYank did the academics at your school research/publish/get funding? I have understood that research funding is also focused on the top tier universities, and consequently I would need to factor that in. However, if that isn't entirely correct, that broadens my scope. I haven't fully understood, but I know that some universities cannot run PhD programmes, for example. In the UK, PhD students are part of a research lab, and so are important for developing publication track-record (although that is slightly dicipline specific), and so if PhD students weren't possible, my concern is that it would make research funding harder to achieve.

Given I have a US passport, the fact that a move could be permanent has been factoring into my thinking. However, all of the difficulties that exist in terms of making this a reality (e.g. getting the job), make me realise that I think a slightly less ideal location/job for a short period (e.g. long cold winters) would probably be better than not going at all! I really do think if I never do this, I will regret it.

It is a long term plan though. I don't think I will get the job I want applying now (for Fall 2017), and so I think I am going to wait until after my sabbatical (next semester) to apply. Which means I have 12 months to find out all I can about areas/schools/universities/if Trump gets elected etc! Please keep the thoughts and information about areas/living/schools/friends/universities coming. It is a long term project, but I need to make sure it is the right project and realistically possible, before I set my heart on it too much.

If Trump gets elected, then we need to start focusing on the 2020 election, in which case, please consider a swing state, OP. We'll need all the votes we can get.

Hi Sue! Yes, there was plenty of research happening in my University. To cite a particular example, my advisor was a marine biologist who had a few robust projects going. The university did not have a graduate program in Biology at the time (it now does), so he did his research with the help of undergraduates and visiting students.

Yes, I agree that community colleges would have much more of a teaching and service focus and much less if a focus on research. That's a very good point.

of, not if...

I would really recommend North Carolina - Chapel Hill has good schools and that college-town feel, Durham doesn't have such good schools but a really funky vibe and loads going on. They are small-ish cities but only 4 hours to DC, 4 hours to Charleston, 2 hours to the beach and 2 to the mountains. $130k would go a very long way here. Duke, UNC and NC State are all in the area. There are very nice houses in between Durham and Chapel Hill for 350k to 400k in neighbourhoods with community pools and tennis courts, or downtown Durham for $400 or so for a 4 bed house. Chapel Hill is a little more expensive but a great place to live. We love it here.

I've found it to be easy to make friends, partly because of the size of the cities. So many people here have moved from elsewhere that everyone seems to be interested in making new friends. It is still the South and the legacy of segregation is pretty clear but I find it to be a pretty diverse and tolerant part of the world.

Another shout out for the Triangle area of NC. The American half of my family, who have dual nationality, settled there some 20yrs ago and it's now their 'forever' home. The kids go to great schools in chapel hill, all of them in the G&T program, it's a culturally diverse intake of students and families with special interests or skills are welcomed to help enrich the students general knowledge. One of the fathers is an Astro physicist and organised a 4 day field trip for the kids, camping out under the stars while they learned about them. They even got to get a piece of moon rock to hold! How neat is that?!

Fab climate and the occasional 'snow days' they have during the winter, when all schools are closed, are positively welcomed as fun days. Even I, a snow phobic, would welcome that, knowing that within a week all trace of the hated white stuff will have vanished. It's a beautiful area, no heavy industries so unpolluted air, clean well maintained pavements and roads.

I'm with them there as often as I can be and honestly it's only because I'm now so reliant on our NHS since my C.dx and other stuff, that I've not sold up here and moved there, which was my original plan.

You don't say what work your husband does?

Anyway, read up about UCNC and the Triangle and perhaps consider it as an option.

Daily direct flight LHR-RDU makes it easily accessible for a trip.

Good luck to you, Op. We are an American academic family living in the UK after failing to secure tenure in the States. Fulltime, tenure track positions are few and far between.

I would not wish Texas on my worst enemy. We spent 8 long years there in a university town. Dh and I both grew up in Midwest America and the culture shock was something we really struggled with. Adjusting to life in the UK was 1000x easier for us. That being said, there are tons of places in the US that are great and I'd give my right arm to move back to.

Personally, our experience of primary education in the Uk vs the US (where I was a teacher) are similar. The buildings and resources are a heck of a lot better Stateside but the curriculum and expectations are very much the same. That being said, I am keen to get the heck out if here by the time DS is secondary bound. I am not fond of the GCSE/A level system and feel it will bring nothing but misery for late blooming, dyspraxic DS when the time cones. The US system seems to suit those that benefit from a more broad-spectrumed education.

The triangle in NC is sounding very exciting! What a lot of very positive reviews. However, I'm also getting that tenure-track is INCREDIBLY hard to get. So I'm going to look at it as a short-term move, and look for the place that will be willing to hire me. If I'm lucky, I might be able to sneak into an applied niche. It isn't going to be massively popular, but potentially for the right institution, I might have a chance. If it happens, exciting. If I don't try, I'll never know.

Vagndidit were you in Austin? I don't think Texas is going to work for us because I would never go to anywhere other than Austin or Houston, and I don't think the departments there will be right. And I must admit, now I've broadened my US horizons, I'm quite excited about some of the other options. I would be really interested in your Midwest recommendations. And I'm sorry that you are in the UK through necessity rather than desire (and your option to move back comes soon).

SenecaFalls I was wondering at one point if I could vote in the current election because the idea of Trump is frankly terrifying. But I'm not sure I want to exercise my right to vote enough to come and live in a political climate within which electing such an individual is possible. Probably reason enough not to go to Texas.

WhattodoSue I'm not sure how voting works if you are outside the US. Only citizens can vote, but since you have a US passport, I am assuming you are a citizen.

The main issue is residency or having a close connection with a particular state. You have to be registered in a particular state and state law determines whether you can do that. If you have never lived in the US, the options are narrower. www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/reside

So, Salt Lake City... Not somewhere I would have thought of, but they currently have a very interesting job advertised. But I'm assuming it possibly makes Texas look liberal. I know nothing about the place so thoughts would be very appreciated!

Oh, Salt Lake City is totally happening! I would consider moving there if I were looking at jobs in various parts of the US.

You will find kindred spirits virtually anywhere you go, I guarantee it.

When I moved from Boston to my current city (and I will pm you where I live the next time I am not on my phone) I was moving for love.

My friends felt sorry for me; they were convinced I was moving to some sort of backwater hick town.

But I moved at the start of a period during which many people started migrating away from the expensive coastal cities to more affordable areas and my city, within a few years, started to get really interesting.

Yes, I find the local accent very unappealing, and yes, sometimes I catch a whiff of provincialism, but people are also polite and gracious and mellow, in a way that they were not in the supposedly more sophisticated and evolved city of my birth.

I suggest you try your best to shed your pre-conceived notions (and those of people on Mumsnet, mine included, I suppose), and take a look at virtually every academic post in the US which might be a professional fit for you. Don't discount Birmingham, Alabama, or Waco, Texas, or Omaha, Nebraska, take a look everywhere!