UK University Fees - Residence Requirement

[JessieMcJessie]

I've been working in Hong Kong for 5 years and just recently started looking into returning to the UK and maybe doing a Masters or postgrad diploma.

I was a bit shocked to discover that even if you are a British citizen you will not count as a "home" student if you have not been living in the UK for three years prior to the start of the course.

This means that I'd have to pay international level fees and also that I would be competing for places allocated to international students (of which there are generally fewer).

I see that the same rule applies to British teenagers applying to do their undergrad degree: if they have lived abroad for three years or more due to parents' job, they have to pay full fees. I imagine that some of you must have had to take this into account when planning your children's education?

I know that you can possiby be assessed as a home student if you can show that the employment abroad was only temporary. However I am on a permanent contract here that specifically states they don't have to give me a job in our London office if I decide to go back to the UK. I also sold my flat before I left and don't pay UK tax, and 5 years is quite a long time away I suppose. I always intended to go back though.

Has anyone been successful in convincing the UK authorities for this purpose that their time abroad was only temporary? If so, how long had you been living out of the UK?

Also, can anyone shed any light on WHY they impose this requirement? I know I can't change it, but I think if I understood the policy reason behind it I might be able to accept it with better grace.

I can think of two reasons:

1. you need to have paid UK tax for a few years if you want to get the benefit of the UK education system at home rates. (but I paid higher rate tax for 10 years before I left...)

1. You might bugger off abroad again as soon as you finish the course, so the 3 years is to show commitment to the UK if you are someone with a history of working outside it.

The course I want to do results in an NHS qualification and we'd be moving my DH's job back to the UK permanently too, so I could easily show that commitment in other ways. Plus the very fact that I have been abroad for so long means I have got it out of my system!

Interested to hear your stories/opinions.

Sorry, I misrepresented the rules as it applies to undergraduates, what I should have said was:

I see that the same rule applies to British teenagers applying to do their undergrad degree: if they have lived abroad due to parents' job at any time in the three years before the course, they have to pay full fees. I imagine that some of you must have had to take this into account when planning your children's education?

Sounds harsh but my interpretation is: you have paid no tax etc here for enough time to qualify as living permanently abroad, so the UK taxpayers are taking steps not to subsidise a 'foreign' resident who is likely to scarper back once finished with a highly subsidised course which attracts a grant.

Also paying taxes is not like paying into a bank account that you dip into later. While you were a higher rate taxpayer, you also used services (which included anticipation of, and planning for, your needs by government agencies including the police NHS and local authority).

You do also realise that you are technically not eligible for the NHS anymore (lived away from the UK for more than 3 months).

The reason? You can be a British citizen but not lived here for a long time or indeed ever. There are very long term expats in NZ where I am from. DH left when he was 4 and came here in his 30s. The system has to cut off somewhere surely?

You can be a British national by descent if one of your parents is British and you are born overseas. That's what I mean you could even be British without ever setting foot here.
My DDs are NZ nationals in that category. Neither have been to NZ and we don't plan to visit until their teens.

Becles, perhaps I should have added something important.

I have the money to pay the international fees. However many of the courses that I am interested in do not admit international students. However there doesn't seem to be any distinction between "international" for fees purposes and "international" for admissons purposes.

I'd happily be classified as a full fee paying home student if that were an option.

Yes, all healthcare needs understood and planned for, thanks.

twolittleterrors would your children have the right to live in New Zealand permanently?

To my mind the main issue is that international students don't have the right to live and work and contribute to the UK economy after the course (unless they get an employer-sponsored visa). I think they have to leave within 4 months or something.

I would have unlimited right to remain in the UK (in fact, I'd have no right to live anywhere else, as my HK residence is dependent on my job).

Many health courses are funded by the NHS. They want to use their limited funds to educate Home students. Therefore only Home places.

If you've been away for five years you will be classed as international. So you'll need to find a course that admits international students. Or return to the UK and wait three years to start the course.

Vegas, I fully understand that.

I am asking

(a) what people's experience is of the "temporary" caveat to the home/international classification; and

(b) if anyone knows what the policy justification is for making three years is the magic time limit.

jessie yes they are dual British and NZ citizens. The only difference is they can't pass on their kiwi citizenship to overseas born children because they gain citizenship by descent.

Have you maintained a home (eg owned property and rented it out) here in the uk? If so, this will be enough to establish that your time in HK was temporary.

My understanding is that it is your area of residence that pays the contribution, but that may be incredibly out of date (based on dh's grant application for his PGCE fifteen odd years ago which was funded by our borough of residence).

We moved when our children were primary school age, they will be going to university in four/five years. As residents of our new country/province they will pay local fees if they go to a local university. If they want to go to a UK university they will pay full international fees. I don't really have an issue with the rules, especially as they are reciprocal.

I can understand your concern, I'd contact the university running the course you are interested in and ask whether you might be considered as a UK student from an application perspective, in my experience there is much more flexibility around postgrad applications (depending on how heavily subscribed the course is).

Thanks Nooka. I did already ask the University and they were adamant that I would be considered international for admissions purposes. However I think for other courses it might be different; the complication with the one I am keen on is that it is NHS funded so, as Vegas said, it is home students only.

I would also be classed as an international student by all Hong Kong Universities!

It's not a case of convincing the government - it's a box ticking exercise. They'll want to see proof that the job was temporary (usually a contract and contact with a person who will confirm that your employment will move back to the UK), evidence of a home here (usually mortgage statements etc) and proof of paying UK tax. They'll then assess and home fees will be granted. If you are lacking any of the above, they won't be.

It doesn't sound as if you meet any of the requirements, to be honest , so I'd be cautious about getting your hopes up.

orange I sold my flat when I left the UK. Bought another one in London about 2 years ago as an investment. I'd be lying if I said I bought it to come back and live in, but the plan was that it would keep me on the property ladder so I could sell it and buy a bigger place when I moved back.

Infinity do you have direct experience of the process? Perhaps "convincing" is the wrong word to use, but there is no set legal definition of "temporary" so applications are assessed on a case-by-case basis. That is not quite the same as box-ticking I don't think.

Sorry I know it must be frustrating but I think the rules are right and the reasons for having them are in your OP.

The rules have to be simple enough to be administered with minimum bureaucracy, and objective enough for there to be no judgements of opinion involved. Otherwise it's open to abuse and bias and you have a much higher admin cost to administer. You'd have to have an appeals process if there was some way to subjectively prove commitment - because everyone who was told they hadn't proved it would appeal. It would be a nightmare.

The same kinds of rules apply - correctly in my view - to getting children into faith schools. You don't have to prove faith or commitment, which would be open to abuse in the same way. You just have to prove weekly attendance for the previous X years.

So sorry I think that UK tax payers are right not to subsidise your fees for you. Come and live and work and pay tax here, as is your right, for 3 years then do the course. Or pay the unsubsidised rate.

fish maybe you missed my upate a few posts in. I am ready, willing and able to pay international fees. But the course that I want to do will not take people classified as international students. It's about admissions for me, not about fees.

My daughter went to an international school in Canada. I live in the UK and pay tax here. I was told she would not qualify as a home student as she was not resident in the UK in the year preceding her course.

I argued that she was still resident in UK, came home for Christmas and summer but they said she would still be international. If I had been in HM forces, or the school had been EU, then that would have been different.

As it happened, she didn't go to uni straight from school and went travelling instead.

Thanks CLJ52. That's interesting as it suggests that paying tax or not could be a red herring.

Did she have to wait the full three years before going to University as a home student then?

Sorry - I don't know. She didn't go to university. She plans to go next year but she's been home 5 years now.

OP, is it medicine that you are hoping to apply for? If so, the chances of getting on a course are are not great are they . We thought DS1 was going to be counted as an overseas applicant which was depressing enough from a fee point of view and then really depressing from a financial point of view.

Did you visit the UK a lot when you were in HK?

the people i know who managed this either
worked for the uk govt
or
maintained a house/gp in the uk
or
were only abroad for a year or so

i am glad we have this rule tbh. nhs courses are mostly still massively subsidised by the uk taxpayer and it is reasonable that they are only available to uk residents not non resident tax exiles

Hi jijiijij, not medicine, speech therapy. I sometimes wish I'd gone for medicine years ago but I'm far too old for that now.....unfortunately I'll be pretty long in the tooth for any career change if I have to wait three years before starting the course - would not start work properly till I was about 47 .

I have been back to the UK 3-4 times a year every year, for work, Christmas, my wedding, visiting friends and family and I spent a lot of time there throughout 2012 when my Mum was seriously ill and passed away. I don't think visiting makes any difference though, which is fair enough.

You say "we thought" - did he end up being treated as a home applicant in the end? Hope he managed to get into something that was right for him.