UK University Fees - Residence Requirement

[JessieMcJessie]

I've been working in Hong Kong for 5 years and just recently started looking into returning to the UK and maybe doing a Masters or postgrad diploma.

I was a bit shocked to discover that even if you are a British citizen you will not count as a "home" student if you have not been living in the UK for three years prior to the start of the course.

This means that I'd have to pay international level fees and also that I would be competing for places allocated to international students (of which there are generally fewer).

I see that the same rule applies to British teenagers applying to do their undergrad degree: if they have lived abroad for three years or more due to parents' job, they have to pay full fees. I imagine that some of you must have had to take this into account when planning your children's education?

I know that you can possiby be assessed as a home student if you can show that the employment abroad was only temporary. However I am on a permanent contract here that specifically states they don't have to give me a job in our London office if I decide to go back to the UK. I also sold my flat before I left and don't pay UK tax, and 5 years is quite a long time away I suppose. I always intended to go back though.

Has anyone been successful in convincing the UK authorities for this purpose that their time abroad was only temporary? If so, how long had you been living out of the UK?

Also, can anyone shed any light on WHY they impose this requirement? I know I can't change it, but I think if I understood the policy reason behind it I might be able to accept it with better grace.

I can think of two reasons:

1. you need to have paid UK tax for a few years if you want to get the benefit of the UK education system at home rates. (but I paid higher rate tax for 10 years before I left...)

1. You might bugger off abroad again as soon as you finish the course, so the 3 years is to show commitment to the UK if you are someone with a history of working outside it.

The course I want to do results in an NHS qualification and we'd be moving my DH's job back to the UK permanently too, so I could easily show that commitment in other ways. Plus the very fact that I have been abroad for so long means I have got it out of my system!

Interested to hear your stories/opinions.

Sorry I didn't see that you were willing to pay the higher fees but couldn't get a place.
The nhs courses are home-only because there is a massive amount of effort from existing nhs staff to train up the next generation of their successors, and there simply isn't the capacity to open these up to international students.

What I said previously about the criteria needing to be absolutely objective still stands and even more so, I don't want the nhs embroiled in legal challenges because of the difficulties intrinsic to the subjective judgement-based criteria you want to see, and I don't want the limited time that nhs professionals take from their main work to train their successors to be diverted to international students.

If you aren't willing to qualify within the rules by living here for 3 years first, could you do an equivalent qualification in another country? USA, NZ, Australia?

sanfairyanne you talk as if I deliberately moved away from the UK to avoid paying tax! Simply not true, and a little bit rude.

when you say "nhs courses are mostly still massively subsidised by the uk taxpayer and it is reasonable that they are only available to uk residents"
(1) I intend to be a UK resident for the rest of my life; and
(2) I would 100% be looking to work in the NHS after qualifying. Part of the rationale for the NHS funding is to train its future staff, no? The course is not like a fun treat that you become entitled to by being good and paying all your taxes.
(3) I'd happily pay full fees so my place would cost the NHS less than the home student places.

Interestingly, as soon as I move back to the UK I wil be fully entitled to receive NHS care as long as I can show that I intend to remain permanently in the UK. No need to have been resident for a minimum period before that benefit kicks in.

its just part and parcel of choosing to be an expat though, isnt it?
the uk is becoming stricter on immigration
although this rule has applied for absolutely years and years, access to welfare is becoming harder and i suspect access to nhs will be the next area to have conditions applied to it
maybe move to another country for the course, possibly eu?

fish

I don't want the limited time that nhs professionals take from their main work to train their successors to be diverted to international students

Why would you think it not worthwhile to train an international student who has the unrestructed right to live and work in the UK after graduation?

That is a completely objective criterion.

On the other hand, there is nothing to stop a home student deciding to go abroad in the future (equivalency of qualifications permitting) so the NHS gets no guarantee there.

DH has to move back to the UK for his job anyway so I can't study anywhere else.

international students do not have the right to stay on unlimited after their studies. in fact, theresa may now wants them to have to leave immediately after their course finishes and apply for jobs from outside the country. hopefully this will not happen. i think perhaps you have been away so long you have entirely missed a massive cultural shift. returning expats and immigrants are not generally welcomed regardless of any skills they might bring. yes, it is ridiculous, but that is how it is

that said though, this rule has applied for a very long time. certainly many years before you chose to become expat

sanfairyanne

1. I am classified for fees purposes as an international student

1. I have the unlimited right to work in the UK

The point I am making is that my own circumstances are different in that crucial regard from most other international students.

I am perfectly welcome in the UK as a returning expat! I am not an immigrant.

yes i know you can work in the uk, thought you meant that in general, international students can stay on to work after their studies with no restrictions. this is no longer the case and in future it sounds like they will be even more restricted

i am also glad you feel you will be welcomed back (as opposed to 'we have to let you in').

You have the right to return to the UK, and the right to work in the UK - however for if you study you count as an international student. Yes there is a shift in the UK, there is a time of austerity and an attitude that you need to contribute to the country or at least show commitment by living here before getting benefits such as reduced fees. That is just the way it is, and unfortunately you will have to accept it.

If you want to do a specific course - is it offered by any truly "private" institutions, such as the University of Buckingham (which has just opened a Med school I believe). Or can you return and work instead? Maybe with a part-time qualification? Or is there an alternative course?

The three year rule has existed for a very long time (I think it was around when I went to Uni in the Dark ages). People who are posted overseas often think carefully about it , especially if they have teenage children.

this requirement has existed for a fairly long time. its just part of the decision making process when you choose to leave for a certain number of years and declare yourself non resident.
sorry not to be more sympathetic.

sanfairyanne

i am also glad you feel you will be welcomed back (as opposed to 'we have to let you in').

Do I read that correctly, that you are being sarcastic and your own view is that I should only grudgingly be allowed back into my own country, when I have no right to live anywhere else? By the way, I work for a British company and always have done.

mummytime I have said upthread that I am happy to pay full fees so I am not looking for that benefit. I am just asking to be allowed to train to contribute to the NHS as a professional in the future.

But there is no guarantee that you'll stay in the UK after your training, hence the residency requirement. Your husband might lose his job, you might split up etc. True this could be the case for a UK student but it would be a daft system if they didn't let UK students onto the course.

And although overseas fees will cover the actual cost of educating/training you, you'd be taking up a place that could otherwise have gone to a UK student, with a far higher likelihood of them using that training in the NHS.

It's actually quite reasonable for the UK to require you first commit to being here for a short number of years before letting you use UK education/training resources.

Sorry but you really should have looked into this before you went - you're sounding a bit entitled to be honest.

titchy I am British - my right to be in the UK isn't in any way connected to me staying with my husband. Not sure I understand your point there?

I wasn't considering any more study when I left the UK. 5 years later, circumstances have changed.

What you are saying is that my record of working outside the UK for 5 years makes me more of a "flight risk" post course than a fellow Brit who has never worked outside the UK. I disagree and I'm not sure how being in the UK for 3 years would change that.

To be clear, the job that brought me to Hong Kong is completely unrelated to speech therapy and there is no way that my previous experience of working in Hong Kong would in any way make it easier for me than for any other student on the course to work outside the UK as a speech therapist after qualification. The likelihood of us using the training in the NHS is exactly the same.

Yes effectively it is the flight risk issue, plus the tax issue - both of which you put in your OP. There has to be a cut-off somewhere, the entitlement has to be easily verified, and it should be fair to all. (I mentioned your dh because you said you were moving back because of his job.)

Residency is a much easier requirement to prove than nationality which as pps have said could mean someone who has never lived in the UK could get a British passport and be entitled to an NHS funded place, whereas someone who has lived here for years, is settled and has a family here but isn't a UK passport holder, doesn't get a place. In that situation who do you think should get the place?

I started an Business Degree in the UK in September 2014 having lived abroad for 10.5 months in the last three years. I asked my college if this would be an issue with the student finance and they said no (have this in an email from them). But guess what...

I've lived in the UK for 45 years, apart from those 10.5 months. They want proof that the move was temporary. I am struggling to provide that proof because - we went, we came back. How is that not temporary? We sold our house but kept our UK bank accounts. DH has paid tax for that financial year in the UK.

I only found the course a week before it started and because the adult education person at the college told me I would get the finance I went ahead. Granted I should have checked more thoroughly. College are saying if I can't get the student loan I can pay in instalments but I'm really pissed off about it as I possibly would not have signed up for it. I realise I should have checked with the student finance people but the course was due to start within days. I applied for the loan straight away but only heard about the issues the week before Christmas.

Jessie I was on a funded NHS course (midwifery) and there was an international student on it who was paying international fees, even though it is advertised as being open to Home students only. It is not well advertised, but this option does exist at some universities.

You are very, very unlikely to be able to convince the authorities that you qualify for Home student status, however.

Well although we need more speech therapists, it can actually be very hard for experienced and trained ones to find work.

Summer she is categorically NOT a home student. She has not lived in the EU for 5 years. That makes her an overseas student. RTFT.

Jessie Yes, personal experience.

It will be assessed on a case-by-case basis in that someone looks at each claim, but it's very much box ticking. There are no exceptions.

You could try convincing a university that you are a home student, but will pay international fees, but I don't really fancy your chances. It'd take some deception to pass it through the system, so you'd need a very dedicated person!

Your other option is to come back with your husband, and do something else (voluntary work? A relevant job?) until you can be counted as a home student again. I do appreciate that is a rubbish option, though.

I can be snippy with friends yes

I was responding to your last sentence: 'Surely some admissions person with some common sense can see you are a "Home" student??'

which is factually wrong - she isn't a Home student.

The issue is actually the NHS rather than the individual university, as the NHS funds these courses, not the Funding Council.

I've found a couple of postgraduate courses in this subject area which are open to international students with just a quick google. City University London, Queen Margaret University Edinburgh. However, according to the NHS careers website, these postgrad courses are generally only suitable for existing healthcare professionals to refocus their specialism. They say that most people entering the profession do so with a 3 or 4 year undergraduate degree - which generally are open to international students with no problems - and presumably there would be no barrier at all to you doing postgrad after that as you would then meet the residence requirement.

I'm sure you do intend to stay and would be an excellent speech therapist for the future population of the uk - I wasn't saying I want to keep you personally out, but that changing the rules for you would also open the gates to many other people who could easily abuse the system as it is impossible to objectively prove intention. The rules haven't been made up to maliciously inconvenience you, but to simply reach the right conclusion swiftly with minimal admin and fuss in the vast majority of cases. You're an unusual case but changing the rules to accommodate you isn't necessarily the best solution if it would cause problems elsewhere.

Thanks Summer that more or less encapsulates the problem. Bue , thanks. I am limited to course providers in/ near London due to DH's job, but there is one that I am waiting to hear back from about international places.

pupsiecola that is really tough, good luck with getting them to class you as "home". Interesting that the University thought there would be no problem.

fish Thanks for googling. City is the course I want to do and you don't have to be an existing healthcare professional to be eligible. My undergrad was in linguistics and I was planning to spend a year doing voluntary work, starting the course in 2016. Of course it would still be competitive to get in, but no theoretical academic bar to applying (confirmed by them directly).

However they have told me this (direct quote from their e-mail) :

"Unfortunately as a British national you will not be able to self fund your studies for this course. "

So I am too British to self fund but too overseas to qualify for NHS funding. If I were not British I would be able to fund myself.