One more moving to Brussels :)

[ShutterNutter]

Hi everyone! Found this site a few days ago and I see that some of you live in Belgium :-)

My husband has been transferred to Brussels for 3 years, which is great and we are looking to move early next year. We have 2 little girls 5 & 6 .
We have been in Brussels for 8 days now school & house hunting. I tell you it has not been easy. We just can't decide were to live. After looking at quite a few houses we have come down to two.

The first house we are deciding on is in Ixelles near all the shops, it has no garden (not even a little patch) and no parking which is a bit of a pain driving round and round trying to find one after a long day of work. On the plus side the house is near Tenbosch Park and another big play ground that I can easily walk the girls to, also all the restaurants and shops.

House number 2 is in Watermal-Boitsfort, it is bigger and newly renovated, plenty of parking but the nearest shop (which is 2 supermarkets) is 1.5km away. Not crazy far, but far enough not to make the area very exciting or have anything fun to walk to.
One of the things that appeal to me coming to Europe is the fact that you don't have to get into your car just to get milk. I really enjoy walking and was looking forward to be able to walk to the corner store to get milk or whatever. Also living in a quaint, pretty european style street is very appealing.
DH understandably wants it to be an easy commute to work (Auderghem) and back and to the girl's school (we are deciding between BEPS and ISB) and the Watermal house would certainly provide that. It also has a garden for the girls. The downside is that this house is just surrounded by big offices and buildings and some embassies.

So, after all that rambling ... having lived in Brussels for a while, would you go for the more lively location and walkable locations, but smaller house and no garden, or the bigger house with a garden but not very exciting surroundings but closer to work and schools?

I probably won't have car for the first 6 moths or so but will probably get one later. DH will have car and will be traveling quite a bit with his job. I'll be a stay-at-home mom.

Thanks for any input!!

Signed, indecisive Crazy Rambler ;-)

I don't know the schools but drive past the one is SSW every day. Would you be dropping off by car? I can imagine that being a major pain in the morning on the chaussee de louvain. What would be the route into work....maybe we could suggest some other alternatives? I live in Zaventem commune and they are most strict about Dutch speaking.....

Hi Gemmax, welcome! I moved to Belgium in August last year and have a three year old dd who started 1er Maternelle in September so I'll add what I can. I live in Genval, its about 10 min drive to Wavre and its a lovely place to live that I would highly recommend. My dh works in Louvain La Neuve which is a few junctions past Wavre and it only takes him 20 mins to get there so I wouldnt restrict your search to Wavre itself.

The other areas Natation mentioned are all nice and very close to each other, Rixensart, La Hulpe, Lasne and Ohain are all about the same distance away. I've only ventured to Wavre a couple of times (I mainly go to Waterloo for shopping or the shopping mall at Louvain la Neuve) but havent actually met anyone that lives over there.

As for schools, dd goes to a local french school that she really enjoys, www.lapetiteecoledemaubroux.be/ we were lucky that there wasnt a waiting list and she could start straight away. She struggled with the language for the first few weeks but I kept her in just half days and she soon asked to stay for her dinner when she'd made a couple of friends. The most popular Maternelle in the area (la Hulpe), which I believe always has a waiting list is www.lutins.be/ and a couple more I went to look at that had availability were www.ecole-les-colibris.be/ and notredame-lahulpe.wifeo.com/ . The last two have primary schools attached, the main reason I went for the one I did was because it was just a Maternelle and coming from a nursery in the UK I thought smaller would be better for my DD. There is a primary school next door but in its own grounds (a catholic school). ALOT of the schools seem to be Catholic so I wouldnt rule it out. I'm afraid I dont have any knowledge of the primary schools in the area though, however if you have somewhere more specific in mind I could ask around some of the mums with older kids. Good luck!

Wow! Thank you all for such a comprehensive response. Thank you Natation for all the information on specific schools that you have provided. I will go look it up when I can. The date of births are as follows: 04/05/2001, 31/12/2002, 07/07/2005 and 01/01/2009.
I am concerned about the school place issues but less so the maternelle. I would be quite happy to wait for that.

Great thoughts about reality of learning French in immersion schools, I will take that on board and maybe look more towards a monolingual as you suggest.
Our thoughts on non-Catholic are quite strong. I am actually quite spiritual in a hippy kind of way but have a strong sense that spirituality comes from within and not from without. So I have real feelings that spiritual truths can be taught in schools but not through religion. A bit weird but that is me!
SalM thanks too for your input on lovely places to live.
What I'd love to do is to be able to walk them to school ...is that a ridiculous idea? Or more likely if I look at more rural local schools?
Many many thanks again for taking such time and such care!

To all the new posters - we have a mailing list and private/closed FB group for Belgian Mnetters. If you would like to join send me a PM.....There are quite a few of us now - and we do go out!

Just added to the schools map of French schools in Brabant Wallon around Wavre. If distance to school is important to you, I'd bear in mind that there are areas where there are no schools in walking distance at all, specifically the whole of the south side of Wavre, the south side of Rixensart, the area between Genval and La Hulpe.

You're in a tricky area for renting and looking for schools at the same time. Were you looking in Brussels, I'd say immediately find a school and then go for a house next, as school places are difficult to find there and housing is plentiful. However, Belgians do like to buy rather than rent, so the rental market where there is not a large number of expats is quite small, there is not so much pressure on school places in Brabant Wallon, so I'd try and find school places and housing at the same time in the Wavre area. The expat population is going to be bigger in Genval-Rixensart-La Hulpe, so I'd start there really.

As your eldest is born in 2001, that's 6e primaire in September 2012. Le Verseau will not accept new pupils in 6e primaire at all, have had that directly from the British deputy head herself and same story told to 2 separate parents. The deputy head also emailed me to say they would not accept a non French speaker in 5e primaire either, so no place even if available for your 2002 born children who'd be in 5e primaire -however with a birth date the last day of the year, there is a good chance a school will ask you to put your child down a year, unless your child is particularly gifted academically - being the very youngest in the class combined with no French will be seen as quite a disadvantage and I myself would opt for a place in 4e primaire rather than 5e primaire. So if there is a place at Le Verseau in 4e primaire, it might be an option. For the child born in 2005, that would be 2e primaire. For the child born in 2009, that's 1ere maternelle.

There is no religion taught in maternelle. However from 1e primaire and for the next 12 years of school through to the end at 6e secondaire, religion is obligatory in ALL schools, not just Catholic ones. In the non religious schools (there are also Jewish, Protestant and Muslim schools in Belgium), from 1e primaire, there are various religious options for the 2 hours a week slot. You would get MORALS, CATHOLICISM, PROTESTANTISM, ORTHODOX, ISLAM, JUDAISM, not every choice in every non religious-aligned school but you will always have Morals and Catholicism among the choices. The children during the 2 hour lessons are divided on religious grounds and taught separately. In secondary, it is often difficult to find a non religious and academic secondary, the only one in Wavre is actually Le Verseau! Our son is at a Catholic secondary and half the children came from non religious primaries, around our area of Brussels, there isn't a really academic non religious secondary.

Just a thought, the French Community has a system of "passerelle" classes which are supposed to be reserved for asylum seekers, recognised refugees and children from 3rd world countries, where there receive intensive French lessons. There is one single school which has one of these classes at primaire level near Wavre. Your children will not be officially eligible, unless you fit these categories, but maybe schools turn a blind eye to the rule. Anyway, this is the school, Ecole Communale Fondamentale du Centre de Rixensart. It's near the train station, the sport centre and swimming pool, the shops, as central a spot possible in the town.

ecole-rixensart.be/ecole/?q=node/1

Hi Portofino and thanxs for the FB offer - I sent you a PM :-) We shall be commuting SSW to the European district, so - unless school deviations (pretty impossible, I guess) - we shall go either on the highway or Leuvensesteenweg. Otherwise probably Woluwelaan and consider using the park-and-ride in Roodebeek...if we make it on time to get a spot. It seems that our choice is now between the Flemish school GBS Kraainem and Parc Schuman in Woluwe Saint Lambert. We are meeting with Parc Schuman headmaster tomorrow.They seem much more relaxed about the fact that our 6-year old would have very limited French at the start of primary than the same with Dutch in GBS Kraainem. Thank you for sharing any impressions or thoughts relatd to this.

natation, would you please share your resource for school ratings - you refer in an earlier post to a rating of francophone schools on a scale of 1 to 20, so I wonder where one can check the performance of a certain school? I am aware of how scewed and misleading results can be, but still I am ratehr curious. Thank you!

it's not a rating of performance, so do not take it as that. The rating system is of socio-economic status of the area the school is in / children who attend - if you can read French and are internet savvy, you can look up exactly how the ratings are calculated. You cannot rate performance in Belgium of primary schools. The CEB exam taken in 6e primaire has only been obligatory for about 4 years, the pass rate is 90 - 95% so not so helpful, the average scores of the 3 tests making up the exam might be more helpful but schools are not allowed to advertise the scores, so you cannot compare schools on even this one exam without specifically asking each individual school for its results.

Parc Schuman is one of the less sought after French schools in WSL. From a commuting point of view, I'd be looking at getting onto waiting lists at other schools such as Aurore and l'Aubier in Evere, Singelijn, Vervloesem, Parc Malou, Angélus in WSL, Divin Sauveur in Schaerbeek.

www.lesoir.be/mediastore/_2011/mars/du_21_a_la_fin/liste_fondamental.pdf

natation, thank you for the explanation. I am internet savvy, but my French is rather mediocre, so I cannot dig deeper into this. I am embarassed to say, but would you confirm that high scores are supposed to reflect wealthier area? In this Parc Schuman scores 'well', which is small wonder given the status of WSL. We are thinking to get our son enrolled in Parc Schuman (given that there is a place there) and possibly try to arrange a few more meetings in other schools from the list you suggest. My understanding is that one can hold places in several schools.
We really wanted to get to a Flemish school, but we are very afraid of the stress to impose on our son that he has to 'pass an exam' still in August so that he does not stay an extra year in kleuters. So, at the end this may tip the balance towards a francophone school. Do you have an idea if the crowd in Parc Schuman is more international? We do hope to have the opportunity to socialise with other parents at some level...
thank you so much once more!

Parc Schuman doesn't score too badly but some schools score 19 in WSL, there is only one that really stands out and that is AR WSL, 3 schools score a lot worse than expected (Ste Jeanne de Chantal, Bonheur and SC de Lindthout), the rest of the scores pretty much reflect their reputations. The schools mentioned in the last post above which are good for your commute I'd try and concentrate on, sorry missed off Ste Jeanne de Chantal and Don Bosco off the list.

Yes you can hold places at several schools at once, it is pretty much dependent on your honesty if you ask, plus schools might just contact other schools to check if pupils are registered simultaneously at other schools.

I only know one person with a child at Parc Schuman, the school I know with the most international children in WSL is Singelijn - I've collected from there for a friend and very much middle class and international as well as Belgian. IN WSP the most international schools are the Stockel, Joli-Bois and Chant d'Oiseau ones, but I'd possibly only say the Stockel ones are practical for you, depends exactly where you live in SSW, Stockel is good for onward commuting by metro.

Hi Natation,
You are really helping me to cut through so much information really quickly here. I very much appreciate your input.

You mentioned 'non religious and academic secondary' as being pretty much a no no given the restrictions for my eldest two. What in your opinion would be the schools that are less academic and non religious? It was ironic that you mentioned that they might want to keep down my second child as she is gifted and is currently working around 2 years ahead of the national average (though how that will compare in Belgium I don't know), so keeping her back may be really hard on her. I am not sure if for the short term academic success will be relevant as I am sure that this will have to plateau for at least a year while they grapple with their language skills. So maybe something less academic will be fine. Correct me if I am wrong. What I of course want is for them to be happy more than anything, so social integration and language skills will be key.
Many many thanks again for your support.

No non religious and academic are just less numerous than Catholic and academic. Many of the communal secondaries are professional and technical ones, the French Community controlled schools (always Athénée Royal XXXXX) are a mix of general and technical schools, some are very well regarded, but just not so often as Catholic ones. It is very much dependent on area, where we live, all the academically leaning schools are Catholic.

Placing a child born in December down a year should be with the co-operation of the parents. I know 4 children in our girls' school who have all been placed below their peers, some because there were no spaces in the correct year group, 1 because it meant starting in 1st primary instead of 2nd primary (so not to miss out the crucial 1st primary where they seem to learn to read as well in one year as they do in 3 years in a UK school), 1 because her knowledge of French was too poor. It would be up to you whether you think your child could cope with the standards in 5e primaire or whether better to drop down to 4e primaire. Academic standards are not really going to be your main issue at first though, understanding French and getting to grips with a completely different school system are most important hurdles - eg expect plenty of tests, lots of grammar, Maths 1 or 2 years higher than UK, rote learning - and if you get a more progressive school which doesn't test so much and is a bit more creative with the curriculum, then you've hit the jackpot!!!

Your eldest is going to find it hardest, only 10 months at school and needing to pass the CEB. I'd look towards Le Verseau as a strong contender for secondary, as there is no obligation there to do Dutch in the first 2 years of secondary like other secondaries in the Wavre area and the curriculum time is replaced with English, but to get a secondary place at Le Verseau requires a pass at CEB, it's not impossible but your eldest might have a very tough first year in 6e primaire.

Well, here is my experience: finding a school place in 1st primary is a real trouble that late in the year :-( After Aurore and l'Aubier, I got refusals from Singelijn, princess Paola, Vervloesem and parc Malou (in this last one they told me the waiting list is only for WSL residents, which was somewhat strange to me). I still have a few more on my list, but at this point it seems I am lucky to get any place in WSL at all, so I accept what is on offer...To my greatest regret the Flemish schools are really difficult with a child about to start primary and with no Dutch at all - either you have to put them in 3 kleuters or put them through an 'exam' in August, which is pretty discouraging.
I shall follow the advice to try again some of these in May and then again in August.

Hi Natation,
Thanks again. You mentioned Le Verseau as a contender for secondary, but haven't you already ruled that out for me as they don't accept directly into 6e and certainly not without French? Or do you mean for the younger ones, with the 9 year old dropping down to 4e?

Le Verseau has a maternelle, primaire and secondaire. Le Verseau don't accept new pupils into 6e primaire, don't accept non francophones into 5e primaire. That does not stop you sending your children to a different primaire and applying to Le Verseau for secondaire. Le Verseau is super oversubscribed at maternelle and primaire level, you might get a place for 1 out of 4 of your children or none at all, I have been told of children waiting 3 years to get in there even with siblings. However in 1ere secondaire, the school is not oversubscribed (at least didn't fill up straightaway in the last 2 years when vacancies became public), so you could apply for Le Verseau secondaire from 6e primaire at another school and would be likely to get offered a place. Applications for 1ere secondaire are done on a single application form for the whole of French speaking Belgium, choosing up to 10 schools. If you are at a French primaire, you automatically get the application form and return it to your 1st choice school in the month of March, hearing if you get a place after Easter in mid April.

I would contact Le Verseau directly to ask if policy has changed at all for entry into 5e and 6e primaire, for the eldest 2, but don't forget fees will be 4200 each child, then add on up to another 1000 for school books, midday garderie, residential trips for the elder children, less for the younger ones.

I think Le Verseau at secondary would be quite a good choice, I'd be a little concerned about a non francophone going into the school from 1e to 4e primaire, if only because of the number of anglophones in the school which could hamper the speed of fluency in French, for a child already fluent in French and English, far less relevant.

Oh I forgot to mention at the moment, even if you are at Le Verseau primaire, there is no priority for the secondaire section unless you joined the school back in something like 2007, you would get priority for further siblings after the first child gets a place in the secondaire, you lose the priority if you don't place Le Verseau first and then change your mind and want Le Verseau secondaire, but in any case as the secondaire is not oversubscribed, lack of priority or losing priority should not impact on an application for secondaire.

Good afternoon ladies.
May I ask if you know of a real estate agent that could help us find an apartment?

Not sure about an agent but this website is really good

www.immoweb.be/en/

You can try contacting agents who have concentrations of properties in areas where you are looking, but when I was looking last year, there was only one agent among about 10 local ones who were remotely interested in suggesting alternative properties and would contact me with appropriate suggestions. I found most agents are more interested in promoting you anything, irrelevant what you were looking for, so I would often get sent properties way over budget, with not enough bedrooms, or in completely the wrong areas.

Your best option is to find schooling options (preferably more than one) taking into account the availability of property around the schools, then concentrate on areas around these schools. Immoweb is the most comprehensive means of looking. You need to be quite pro-active too, it is much easier if you are in Brussels, masses easier, lots of research into individual properties - looking on the outside and immediate area BEFORE requesting visits, double checking if the property is with other agents at lower prices or who are more efficient (when more than 1 agent, I always chose the one I found most reliable for negotiations).

I can only really help you with property searching in our immediate area. I've probably posted this one before, but walked past it again a week ago, it is STILL empty, not sure if it's a good sign or not or if the owner is being difficult over the price. Anyway, it's near a metro, near 2 very good schools (about 100m from one of them), near everything, nice quiet street is sought-after area of east Brussels. Rue Francois Vanderelst. 580 per month + 150 charges (I think is too much for charges, but depends on if that is your electricity and water and heating in that price).

www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3517231&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1

any feedbacks about the school (école maternelle de bemel ) in woluwe saint pierre?? thanks a lot

In brussels sorry i need some feedbacks about ecole de bemel small school maternelle in brussels in woluwe saint pierre thanks

I know someone who is sending their child there next year to école du Bémel, don't know anyone currently with children there. Heard plenty of extra-curricular activities - including la Chaise Musicale which does ateliers also in Ixelles, some schools do very little of those at maternelle level. I'd certainly have the school on my list if I were living in the Chant d'Oiseau area.

thanks natation i am interested in small schools esp concerning the maternelle (familiar) after for primary schools some friends told me athene of auderghem is excellent and le paradis des enfants. chant d'oiseaux some like it and others no but still have time ! please let me know if u will listen sty my son will begin next september and i do not know the school just i like the building (clean and small)
thanks again natation

Mayy, you should find that the school will have a "fancy fair" or "fete de l'école" in May or June. It's a good chance to get to see the school, children, parents, get a feel for the atmosphere and community. It will be open to all, not just to children in the school. It's a good tip for anyone whose children are starting school in September to go to the Fancy Fair of the school in the May/June before.